"Ink," the origin and meaning of his tattoos...

[Red Shirt]

This isn't just another Ink, Man in the Pinstriped Suit, Bill Roberts, Zombie Pimp theory thread. Bear with me please.

I was reading through the thread for Chapter 30, part 1 of ?? and also went of in search of the cover art to have a look at it. Later in the thread, I read this, posted by wh33t:


Ink is one tricky Mutha... who knows what he is up too. Maybe Ink is like a "god father" of the Families or something.

I thought to myself, why not check? I've had this thought before myself. The art for Chapter 27 (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=27+-+The+Thirty-First) is his hand gripping a door way. Surely someone would have noticed a ring by now, but I want to see for myself.

I think that I might have found something more interesting and sinister.

Have a good close look at his hand. At first glance it looks like a bunch of convoluted mumbo jumbo. I looked closer and made a few startling discoveries.

At his wrist (and on his pinky finger) are what looks like molecular symbols of a Benzine Ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzene). More specifically, those found in Aromatic Hydrocarbons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromatic_hydrocarbon) and Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycyclic_aromatic_hydrocarbon). This specific one looks similar to Chrysene (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysene) and Benzo(a)pyrene (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzo%28a%29pyrene), both of which are known carcinogens. More specifically, the diagram on his wrist, if you flip it over, bears a striking resemblance to Benzo(a)pyrene's interaction with DNA. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzo%28a%29pyrene#Interaction_with_DNA) My guess is that it is another AH/PAH that is interacting with DNA in a way far more complex than cancer.

A great deal of these hydrocarbons are found in coal tar, oil, fossil fuel, ect., the stuff found underground. Did Ink know something about zombie causing chemicals underground and tattoo their symbols on his body?

It gets better and goes deeper.

On the back of his hand (and on his middle finger) are a series of lines and dots. To me, these look like one of, or a combination of:

The Celestial/Angelic Alphabet (http://www.omniglot.com/writing/angelic.htm): (WIKI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_Alphabet))
Documented (Created?) by Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Cornelius_Agrippa) in the 16th century. Derived from the Hebrew and Greek alphabets, and purported to be used for communication with angels.

The Malachim (http://www.omniglot.com/writing/malachim.htm): (WIKI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malachim))
Same guy, also derived from the Hebrew and Greek alphabets. Still in use to a limited extent by the Freemasons.

The Transitus Fluvii (http://www.omniglot.com/writing/ptr.htm) or "Passing the River alphabet" (WIKI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitus_Fluvii))
Same guy again. Derived from the Hebrew alphabets. It is described as an occult alphabet.

These, combined with others are found in/on the magical incantations of wards, talismans, curses and the like in many faiths such as early Judeo-Christianity and Druidic/Paganism. It seems that Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa may have building on King Solomon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon#Angels_and_magic) and the incorrectly attributed Key of Solomon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_of_Solomon), around which there are many legends of magical power relating to the summoning and control of spirits and demons.

Then there is the Snakes and the Bacteria. I'm at somewhat of a loss to explain these. The snakes could be a reference to the Original Sin, where the Fallen Angel Lucifer, in the form of a snake, persuaded Eve to eat the forbidden fruit.

As for the bacteria, I don't know if it is a generalized representation or meant to be a specific strain. While looking them up I was struck by the idea that the bacteria may be responsible for secreting the above mentioned chemicals. Perhaps a Molecular Chemist and a Bacteriologist could shed more light on this.

I wonder... it this meant to be indicative of the fusion of science and religion? The combination of the occult with technology that brought about the zombie holocaust? This adds another layer to the already mysterious question of who is this guy?

[StickUpKid]

my god....

That was probably the most in debth thing i have ever read on these boards... How do you know all this? I was just thinking prison tattoos like Yuri in MW3 haha:) but this is really good stuff.

[7oddisdead]

the question (that i dont believe KC has answered) should be..how much creative direction was the artist given for what appears on inks hands in that chapter artwork? i know most of the time he just gives him the ideas and direction, but not typically the small details like that...perhaps with that one he did

very well thought out red shirt...good stuff as usual!

[ClearSights]

Damn man, you're on a role. First the Pantex theory and now this one, keep it up. It was a good read

[Red Shirt]

Thanks everybody. Even if falsified, theories like these can be a fun exercise in making connections.


How do you know all this? I was just thinking prison tattoos like Yuri in MW3 haha:) but this is really good stuff.

I just start with an idea, a small recognition or two. Then I do my due diligence and turn to research. What astounded me was the longer I spent at it, the more connections I made, like the DNA altering properties of Benzo(a)pyrene. I discovered that while writing this. Also, the Angelic alphabets, I knew there was one and the connection to Solomon, but research showed me that there were three and that the connection was closer and deeper!

I agree, those tattoo's do bear a resemblance to jailhouse tat's. But that makes me wonder even more, were some of his tattoos self administered?

A few additional details that I have uncovered or neglected the first time around show that Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons have implications with the origin of life on Earth (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAH_world_hypothesis). The diagram also bears a resemblance to Benzo(b)fluoranthene (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzo%28b%29fluoranthene). Stub article though, link for the diagram.

Also, the chemical chain and the Angelic sigil seem to be linked together. Not sure what is implied here, some sort of bio-chem technomancy...

[Lukas A.]

If Kc put this truly meant these things... He has put the most thought in a character that I've ever had the honor of learning about...well done sir!

[Kc]

Fascinating... ;)

[Osiris]

ibArtistTookLiberties

[Red Shirt]

ibArtistTookLiberties

Apparently not, although it was my expectation... WND #38 @ 19:42.
I half expected this thread to blow up though when word got out of a partial confirmation From Kc at the Big Apple event.

[7oddisdead]

yea...this took a turn i was not expecting

id lean toward the hydrocarbons/fossils being a good starting point for us looking into this..i'll be putting my tinfoil thinking cap on in 3....2....bbl

[Litmaster]

Wow. Red Shirt is the second coming of Arthur LaMarche!!! (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/member.php?1246-Arthur-LaMarche)

REP REP REP REP REP REP !!!

[EpiEpee]

At his wrist (and on his pinky finger) are what looks like molecular symbols of a Benzine Ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzene). More specifically, those found in Aromatic Hydrocarbons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromatic_hydrocarbon) and Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycyclic_aromatic_hydrocarbon). This specific one looks similar to Chrysene (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysene) and Benzo(a)pyrene (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzo%28a%29pyrene), both of which are known carcinogens. More specifically, the diagram on his wrist, if you flip it over, bears a striking resemblance to Benzo(a)pyrene's interaction with DNA. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzo%28a%29pyrene#Interaction_with_DNA) My guess is that it is another AH/PAH that is interacting with DNA in a way far more complex than cancer.

A great deal of these hydrocarbons are found in coal tar, oil, fossil fuel, ect., the stuff found underground. Did Ink know something about zombie causing chemicals underground and tattoo their symbols on his body?



Hi Red Shirt and everybody,

After looking at the chapter art, I see what you are referring to as benzene rings or a hyrdrocarbon chain. I think there might be a double meaning here though-

the most emphasized portion of the illustration also resembles the figure that is commonly used as a representation of a virus in science classes, etc. Specifically, the hexagon connected by a short line to 2 other short lines. Viruses are commonly thought of as being composed of 2 parts: 1) a protein coat and 2) genetic material, either DNA or RNA.

Interestingly, viruses are often taught as being controversial to classify, because it is difficult to say whether they are truly alive, and in the animal kingdom, or not. I thought this was a neat parallel to some of the zombie discussions here as to whether the zombies are alive or undead, human or not, etc.

I do not view this as confirmation of a virus theory of origin-I feel the outbreak spread far too fast for most epidemics.

Also, with regards to the illustration that looks like a bacteria, it looks like a paramecium, due to the cilia. I think it came up in the most recent We're Not Dead podcast as a question, and ciliates, such as paramecia, are commonly multinucleated. Another potential parallel to the zombies is that ciliates practice avoidance behavior-they will attempt to escape in response to a negative stimulus.

Anyway, sorry for such a long first post-just my addition to the conspiracy theories of the board! :-)

[7oddisdead]

Wow. Red Shirt is the second coming of Arthur LaMarche!!! (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/member.php?1246-Arthur-LaMarche)

REP REP REP REP REP REP !!!


None replace art....but red shirt is certainly welcomed to the team! :D

[Red Shirt]

Welcome EpiEpee! Be sure to swing by the Introduce Yourself Thread (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?33-Introduce-yourself-amp-How-did-you-find-us) to give us an eyefull there too!

Don't worry about the wall of text info dumps, many of us are prone to that from time to time. Just be sure to punctuate and use paragraphs.


I do not view this as confirmation of a virus theory of origin-I feel the outbreak spread far too fast for most epidemics.

I'm kinda OK with the speed that it spread, the part that does concern me is the simultaneous global Hot Zone breakouts. You should look into some of the theories that relate to vulcanism.


About the Angelic Symbology, I first recall having seen it in a movie and I finally remembered which one. Prophecy 3: The Accent. The scene I was trying to recall has morgue worker returning home and looking up the symbology in various old texts.

I watched it again last night and kept returning to the Chapter 27 cover art... Further examination showed me a few small details I missed the first time around...

I'm off to the library in a moment to checkout a couple books.

[IamPaul]

All the tats are very specific. I really do not think it is coincedince (spelling?). Or a really tricky artist that is playing games with us all! I think there is alot in the 'Ring of Fire' theory. Maybe a combo of that and whatever religion or belief the tats possibly represent.

[7oddisdead]

The thing I keep coming back to is this....as an artist I get the occasional commission work..when I'm given creative direction, I take someone's ideas and run with em..i can envision KC giving direction as to what he wants...but getting into specific letters of an angelic alphabet?...doubtful. I think if we combine the "big picture" themes in the tats with a lot of the theories flying around..we can get somewhere..looking into specifics is only gonna confuse the overall message we're looking for.

[EpiEpee]

The thing I keep coming back to is this....as an artist I get the occasional commission work..when I'm given creative direction, I take someone's ideas and run with em..i can envision KC giving direction as to what he wants...but getting into specific letters of an angelic alphabet?...doubtful. I think if we combine the "big picture" themes in the tats with a lot of the theories flying around..we can get somewhere..looking into specifics is only gonna confuse the overall message we're looking for.

I was definitely thinking about the possibilities for artistic liberties taken with the cover art while considering the various tattoos. That's why I was hoping being able to draw some parallels between the tattoos and various zombie theories might have some meaning, but I am open to the strong possibility that I'm just reading way too much into what images were chosen for tattoos.

Does anyone know if the artist has a scientific background at all? It seems like there is a lot of scientific content for the artist to have just come up with off the cuff. That being said, I am ignorant with regards to the artistic process for something like this.

[7oddisdead]

Not to belittle the idea of KC giving Ben direct ideas...but honestly if someone said to me..."make sure his tatoos are a combination of sciences and the occult, with fossil type stuff as a theme"...I'd probly come up with something similar...id also research the shit out of it just to be sure the things I'm putting together make sense in both concept and context.

[Red Shirt]

Turns out my local library was a bust... they didn't have the sorts of references I was looking for. I'll be visiting again, but not too confident.
What I really need is an oooooold library, like the ones I had growing up in the north east. The creepy kind with a national historic marker out front for "Secret Meeting Site for so and so" and the funny smelling basement.

So tonight I'll be doing one of two things:

Investigating online multiplayer games for us to play. (since it seems that Day Z system demands are too high.)
Investigoogling the crap out of this symbology.

[EpiEpee]

Turns out my local library was a bust... they didn't have the sorts of references I was looking for. I'll be visiting again, but not too confident.
What I really need is an oooooold library, like the ones I had growing up in the north east. The creepy kind with a national historic marker out front for "Secret Meeting Site for so and so" and the funny smelling basement.

So tonight I'll be doing one of two things:

Investigating online multiplayer games for us to play. (since it seems that Day Z system demands are too high.)
Investigoogling the crap out of this symbology.


You need something like PubMed for Ancient Sociology or Anthropology. Unfortunately, I don't know what that resource is, but places like Web of Science and LexusNexus might be good starting points?

Also, Google Scholar can be surprisingly helpful. :)

[7oddisdead]

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Geology-1359/oil.htm

While ^this link has little to do with most of what we are talking about here...i find it interesting how most of the geological stuff we have talked about here and regaurding ground zero appear in this text...interesting stuff for sure..

[Witch_Doctor]

It gets better and goes deeper.

On the back of his hand (and on his middle finger) are a series of lines and dots. To me, these look like one of, or a combination of:

The Celestial/Angelic Alphabet (http://www.omniglot.com/writing/angelic.htm): (WIKI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_Alphabet))
Documented (Created?) by Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Cornelius_Agrippa) in the 16th century. Derived from the Hebrew and Greek alphabets, and purported to be used for communication with angels.

The Malachim (http://www.omniglot.com/writing/malachim.htm): (WIKI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malachim))
Same guy, also derived from the Hebrew and Greek alphabets. Still in use to a limited extent by the Freemasons.

The Transitus Fluvii (http://www.omniglot.com/writing/ptr.htm) or "Passing the River alphabet" (WIKI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitus_Fluvii))
Same guy again. Derived from the Hebrew alphabets. It is described as an occult alphabet.

These, combined with others are found in/on the magical incantations of wards, talismans, curses and the like in many faiths such as early Judeo-Christianity and Druidic/Paganism. It seems that Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa may have building on King Solomon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon#Angels_and_magic) and the incorrectly attributed Key of Solomon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_of_Solomon), around which there are many legends of magical power relating to the summoning and control of spirits and demons.

Then there is the Snakes and the Bacteria. I'm at somewhat of a loss to explain these. The snakes could be a reference to the Original Sin, where the Fallen Angel Lucifer, in the form of a snake, persuaded Eve to eat the forbidden fruit.

As for the bacteria, I don't know if it is a generalized representation or meant to be a specific strain. While looking them up I was struck by the idea that the bacteria may be responsible for secreting the above mentioned chemicals. Perhaps a Molecular Chemist and a Bacteriologist could shed more light on this.

I wonder... it this meant to be indicative of the fusion of science and religion? The combination of the occult with technology that brought about the zombie holocaust? This adds another layer to the already mysterious question of who is this guy?

Awesome find on the Benzine Rings. I had been racking my brain for months trying to see if there was a connection to Tetrodotoxin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrodotoxin) which is the toxin in Puffer Fish used by Voodun to create zombies. By way of a misspelling I came across Tetradioxin and a few mouse clicks later to this picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2,3,7,8-substituted_PCDF.svg Going from left to right, the fourth and fifth images look pretty similar to the artwork but they make absolutely no sense to the story. I found a dead end there, but your search shows more promise.

As for the snake symbols, there seems to be a straight forward connection to Voodoo. In fact, perhaps this thread should be merged with Chapter 27's Episode Artwork Has Voodoo Images thread. (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?2959-Episode-Artwork-Has-Voodoo-images) Does anyone remember this little gem posted by Eviebae (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/member.php?741-Eviebae)?

http://snakespirit.webs.com/damballa4.jpg

This is called a veve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veve). This is the same image on the hand closest to the fingers. The veves are symbolic representations of spirits of the Voodoo pantheon. The one on Pinstripe's hand is one of the veves for the deity Damballah-Wedo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damballah). This is the creator deity. But Damballah is a Divine Watch Maker type of creator. He creates the universe then takes no active part in running it. The intermediaries, or forces of nature, are the lower deities called Loa. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loa) They are analogous to saints or angels. Hold on to your hats... There are several FAMILIES of them!

First, know that Voodoo, like all religions, have many elements that vary from different practitioners. Here are a few interesting things about the Loa.

Each family of Loa have unique traits.
One family, The Petro Loa are generally the more fiery, occasionally aggressive and warlike Loa, and are associated with Haiti and the New World. They include Ezili Dantor, Marinette, and Met Kalfu.
Marinette is a cruel and vicious loa...While she is feared and tends to ride those she possesses violently, she can also be seen as one who frees her people from bondage....Her Catholic counterpart is the Anima Sola (Forsaken Soul) who can either free one from bondage or drag you back. Her colors are black and deep blood red. Sound like anyone we know?
Papa Legba is the intermediary between humans and the Loa. This is one of his veves. http://altreligion.about.com/od/symbols/ig/Vodoun-Veves/Legba-2.htm Notice that this is the same as the image on the lower part of Pinstripe's hand, nearest to the rist.
Papa Legba is well represented in pop culture. In 1982, Elton John released a UK B-side titled "Hey, Papa Legba," with lyrics by longtime collaborator Bernie Taupin. The musical groups Talking Heads, The Smalls, Angel, Sun City Girls, and Sun God have also made songs named after him.
In the 1986 film Crossroads, blues musicians Robert Johnson and Willie Brown sell their souls to a "Mr. Legba" at a Mississippi crossroads.
Later in the film Legba takes the name "Scratch".
IMDB link to Crossroads movie. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090888/
'Scratch' is a nickname for the Devil.
There are even Loa twins in Vodou, the Marassa Jumeaux are the divine twins.
Season 3, Chapter 27, "The 31st" If you divide 27 by 3 you get 9. 9 + 31 is 40 and... OK, I'm just fucking with y'all now. :-)


What can we make of all of this? Personally, I don't see these as being much in the way of any insight to the story's plot or zombie origins. I think these are symbolic elements of the story. Icons that ground some of the characters to mythological motifs. Perhaps, and I sort of hope, that the story is being told in a manner influenced by the works of Joseph Campbell. The characters represent archetypes of heroes and villains, angels and demons, sages and fools. The use of symbols does not mean that the story has a supernatural factor. It only serves as a way to connect the characters to the larger forces that control the lives of the subjects of the story. Perhaps, also, we will never know the great details of the scientific reasons behind the outbreak. This is also a hope of mine. Our heroes are learning quite a bit about the zombies and their nature but not enough, yet, for it to turn into a 'Star Trek-esque' work of science fiction. We've been spared the Mr. Spocks and Cmdr Datas with their super brains and scientific explanations. That works well in Star Trek because the science is so far into the future that anything they say can be made to make sense. Can't travel faster than light? Well, just go to warp speed. Pesky quantum physics getting in the way of a a working transporter? Just connect a Heisenberg Compensator.

'Star Wars' started out by telling a fantasy story without trying to explain away the mysteries with too much science. Do you know what happened? Midi-freaking-chlorians!

[Witch_Doctor]

Oh, and another thing.

Coincidence?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6ICYbiLIsg&feature=related

[Red Shirt]

Awesome find on the Benzine Rings. I had been racking my brain for months trying to see if there was a connection to Tetrodotoxin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrodotoxin) which is the toxin in Puffer Fish used by Voodun to create zombies. By way of a misspelling I came across Tetradioxin and a few mouse clicks later to this picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2,3,7,8-substituted_PCDF.svg Going from left to right, the fourth and fifth images look pretty similar to the artwork but they make absolutely no sense to the story. I found a dead end there, but your search shows more promise.

As for the snake symbols, there seems to be a straight forward connection to Voodoo. In fact, perhaps this thread should be merged with Chapter 27's Episode Artwork Has Voodoo Images thread. (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?2959-Episode-Artwork-Has-Voodoo-images) Does anyone remember this little gem posted by Eviebae (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/member.php?741-Eviebae)?

http://snakespirit.webs.com/damballa4.jpg

Strange. I performed a forum search for the tattoos... Perhaps my search parameters and/or permutations were insufficient. O_o

I joined "during" Chapter 28 and wasn't yet very active on the forums, so I kinda missed current discussion on Chapter 27. Darn. I don't feel like the wind has been sucked out of my sails, I'm relieved and I feel bad that others noticed before I did and it got discussion time on WND under my forum name. I did discover it, just not first. Eviebae and Cupcake Zombie deserve a heap of credit too.

As far as I'm concerned, that Veve is identical to the tattoo(s) on his fingers. I'm satisfied with that explanation. I had an odd thought that it might have to do with something astronomical, like the apparent oscillation of a heavenly body. Here I was spending half the night looking up archaeoastronomy to try to nail down the significance and connection of the Maya, the Chichen Itza observatory, Venus and the feathered serpent god Kukulkan. I'm glad that there is a far simpler answer than the rabbit hole I was going down.

I like your thoughts on "over scienceing" a thought or idea taking away from the enjoyment of said idea. I'm still curious though as to what that chemical chain might be. We may never know... part is obscured and other parts seem blurry.


Voodoo on the fingers? Check.
Chemicals on the wrist? Check, sort of.
...
WTF is that on the back of his hand?

I'm still convinced that it is related somehow to Solomonic magic. I was able to locate information on talismanic magic in the third book of the Greater Key and haven't made a match yet.

Of those three mystical alphabets and a fourth related one, Enochian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enochian), that may also be involved, you have two forms of communication with Angels, a means with which to summon and control demons and a language of the Freemasons?

:tinfoil: < That. That's all I have to say at the moment. I'm going to go take a nap.

[Witch_Doctor]

Red Shirt, you're still on a roll. Don't slow your roll. Boy, I was up all night, too, chasing all of this stuff around. KC has us studying this show like we're Biblical Scholars.
What I also forgot to mention was that the Damballah is related to the origin of the world just like your theory of the organic chemical compounds. You even got a "Fascinating" comment from KC on the board and he discussed it with fans at the meet and greet.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFods1KSWsQ

Back to bed I go.
KC, if I oversleep and miss work I'm gonna need a job.

[OhSnapitsme]

simply amazing the thought you put into this, if you dont mind, id like to add a bit. As to the snake, going with the religious route, it could simbolize the temptation to the forbidden, which in the hebrew faith, eating the flesh of another is an almost unforgivable sin.
nature.nps.gov/hazardssafety/toxic/chrysene.pdf is a good read on the effects of chrysene on humans and animals
http://dhss.delaware.gov/dph/files/benzopyrenefaq.pdf is a good one for Benzo(a)pyrene. an interesting part from that is this, where it comes from.

"Benzo(a)pyrene is found in nature from the eruption of volcanoes and forest fires. Yet this chemical
compound is also man-made. Benzo(a)pyrene can be found in surface water, tap water, rainwater,
groundwater, wastewater and sewage sludge. Man-made releases of benzo(a)pyrene are to the air, where
sunlight turns the chemical into a dry form that falls to the ground and breaks down in the soil. This chemical
results from burning plants, wood, coal, and operating cars, trucks and other vehicles. The major indoor
sources of benzo(a)pyrene in the air are wood-burning fireplaces and stoves, and tobacco smoking. There is
no known industry production or use of benzo(a)pyrene."

Just something to ponder, maybe the earth is trying to press restart...

[Vlarken]

In the later episodes, I've been noticing some parallels to The Stand (Stephen King). Chiefly: the main city that survivors are going to is Boulder, Colorado, as it is in The Stand; and the gradual gathering of forces, that will probably end with a clash between the Good people and the Evil people. In The Stand, it was a clash between Las Vegas (evil), and Boulder (good). They never actually went to true war, but I won't go into the whole plot.

In We're Alive, it looks to be a clash between The Military/Tower people, and The Mallers/Colony. Anyway, here's how this relates to Ink: In The Stand, the main antagonist is a demon/otherworldy force who names himself Randall Flagg. If I was to draw another parallel, I would say that Ink is a sort Randall Flagg character.

In the beginning of the show, the news reporter said that Ink was a paranoid schizophrenic. I think that his schizophrenia was actually visions from a force that wanted him to lead a legion to eradicate all people. After the whole outbreak started, Ink's visions told him to go to the cracks that appeared in the earth, and let himself be infected with the disease directly. So, since he was the one meant to lead, his infection endowed him with the power to do so.

I also think that the different types of biters are the result of Ink using his power to warp humans/biters into new and different forms, so that they'll be more effective when he decides to go to war. And one more slightly cracked out theory: I think Ink might bargain with The Mallers, to gain the extra force to go to war against the Good people.

So... Ridiculous, or am I on to something?

[socali]

Interesting theories everyone...

[Witch_Doctor]

So... Ridiculous, or am I on to something?

You ,very well, may be on to something. I believe that after 7000 years of civilization stories are retold over and over again in new combinations, with new characters, new endings, new settings... It would not be unreasonable to assume the things that you have. Think of the Key Master and "Gate Keeper :rolleyes:" in Ghost Busters. Bill/Ink could be a medium under control of some external force. I'm currently listening to another zombie-esque novel where new monsters begin to appear after the zombies take over. Some of the characters speculate that the zombies are used as a vangaurd to an invasion of Earth and the monsters serve as a method of changing earth's ecology to the aliens' world. It's like reverse-terraforming.

Even if we are wrong we could create a pretty good mythology/background for another story with all of our speculating. Just imagine the amount of research that could be done on the theories of story telling by reading our forums.

[Red Shirt]

I believe that after 7000 years of civilization stories are retold over and over again in new combinations...

A littler longer than that actually...

While I am able to connect to the internet for the moment, I just want to throw this out there. The discovery is a year or t
Many, like myself, thought that Sumer, Babylon and others were among the first in the beginnings in the "Cradle of Civilization." Somewhere in the neighborhood of eightish thousand years ago or so.

A "recent" discovery pegs it at about 12,000 years ago. The Göbekli Tepe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe) site in Turkey is now known to be the oldest Neolithic site in the world discovered so far. It has opened a whole new chapter for discovery of ancient and lost civilizations.

So, what other cultures have been lost but might have passed on their tales without our knowing?

[Witch_Doctor]

A littler longer than that actually...

While I am able to connect to the internet for the moment, I just want to throw this out there. The discovery is a year or t
Many, like myself, thought that Sumer, Babylon and others were among the first in the beginnings in the "Cradle of Civilization." Somewhere in the neighborhood of eightish thousand years ago or so.

A "recent" discovery pegs it at about 12,000 years ago. The Göbekli Tepe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe) site in Turkey is now known to be the oldest Neolithic site in the world discovered so far. It has opened a whole new chapter for discovery of ancient and lost civilizations.

So, what other cultures have been lost but might have passed on their tales without our knowing?

Thanks for the info. Sounds a bit familiar. I think I dozed off listening to a documentary about this. I will certainly check it out.

[LongoriaN]

"Have a good close look at his hand. At first glance it looks like a bunch of convoluted mumbo jumbo. I looked closer and made a few startling discoveries.

At his wrist (and on his pinky finger) are what looks like molecular symbols of a Benzine Ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzene). More specifically, those found in Aromatic Hydrocarbons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromatic_hydrocarbon) and Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycyclic_aromatic_hydrocarbon). This specific one looks similar to Chrysene (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysene) and Benzo(a)pyrene (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzo%28a%29pyrene), both of which are known carcinogens. More specifically, the diagram on his wrist, if you flip it over, bears a striking resemblance to Benzo(a)pyrene's interaction with DNA. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzo%28a%29pyrene#Interaction_with_DNA) My guess is that it is another AH/PAH that is interacting with DNA in a way far more complex than cancer.

A great deal of these hydrocarbons are found in coal tar, oil, fossil fuel, ect., the stuff found underground. Did Ink know something about zombie causing chemicals underground and tattoo their symbols on his body?

"It gets better and goes deeper""


You had me up until that point, then when you got to the biblical stuff you lost me, I would stick with a more scientific approach.

The thoughts about the fossil fuels was spot on. Clearly KC has a understanding of science and the scientific process. Additionally, the points about the Hydrocarbons on the hand and the symbols of snakes and bacteria, was spot on. Here are some more scientific explanations.

So....... pockets of gas under the earth, were exposed to the earth's surface when fissures in the crust around Englewood leaked a material. The material that was leaked, could be chemical or biological (I.E. Chemical like hydrocarbons from fossil fuels, oils, and other inorganic compounds within the earth, or Biological compounds like a giant fungus with spores, a bacteria pocket (why antibiotics work), or some life form hard to describe by modern science; like Prions. ) Here is a quote from my facebook explaining the link behind zombies and prions. You can read the links for more details.



"""Do people know about Prions? If there is anything I'm scared of its mad cow disease. Correct me if I'm wrong. Prions are chains of amino acids, that have a chemical confirmation structure with polar regions that bend and form contacted Proteins into Prions. With each contact the material spreads from surface to surface in the brain and spinal column. This collection of material collects and forms vacuoles within the nervous material of the animal. A chemical chain that can reproduce and proliferate. This redefines our concept of life; these chemical chains are just as much living as viruses. Did I mention that the formation of these vacuoles forms a radical shift in behavior and coordination, and that mad cow spreads from organism to organism by the consumption of brains and nervous tissue.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/madcow/prions.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovine_spongiform_encephalopathy

Zombies could happen! you need an eotech!"""



Both these biological or the chemical theories are supported by the tattoos, clearly complex organic compounds. These compounds are IDed correctly on the hand; Carcinogens. Carcinogens are chemical compounds that interact with the biological cells, damaging the way the cell reproduces. Once damaged the cell perpetually mutates and reproduces. These dividing cells can cause radical changes in shape, size, wit, design, behavior, and function within an evolutionary world (Like on "Planet Earth" with the fungus that causes ants to climb blades of grass, suicide, and spread more fungus. Biological organisms augmenting behavior of a host, for the benefit of the parasite) . Like "Cheat Grass" the biological organism conquers the world. A combination of traits that is best suited for the environment. Just like Darwin said.


Here's the theory!



"Ink" is the zombie overmind. The overmind is logical, can speak, and solve simple problems(like drive cars, understand the buzzer system at CJs, and can command the zombies). The little ones are scientific concoctions designed by "Ink". These concoctions are numbered and are different combinations of mutated traits(fast, huge, sharp nails, jump, and run fast). Ink is scientifically testing which combination of traits that will proliferate and will eliminate its competition; Human life. It is an evolutionary arms race between humans and zombies. Our weapon wits, their weapon Change.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_arms_race


The stage is set! which of the little ones will wipe out humanity!

BOOYAH!
Nate

[Zombiphobe]

A great deal of these hydrocarbons are found in coal tar, oil, fossil fuel, ect., the stuff found underground.

It is interesting to note that the La Brea Tar Pits are in LA (albeit North of Ground Zero). There we have petroleum seeping up from the earth as oil. The lighter factions evaporate, leaving the heavier fractions behind as natural asphalt.


Pockets of gas under the earth, were exposed to the earth's surface when fissures in the crust around Englewood leaked a material. The material that was leaked, could be chemical or biological (I.E. Chemical like hydrocarbons from fossil fuels, oils, and other inorganic compounds within the earth, or Biological compounds like a giant fungus with spores, a bacteria pocket (why antibiotics work), or some life form hard to describe by modern science; like Prions.

The pockets under the Earth that you mentioned might be an underground connection between the La Brea Tar Pits and the fissures at Ground Zero. The lighter factions that evaporate might also be contributing to the haze that Saul and Victor witnessed.

It is also worth noting that scientists have also discovered new strains of bacteria living in those pits, so there might just be something there.

[GeOsiris]

Chaos.

Ink has a tattoo of the symbol for chaos on his hand.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcShXAUZuQMbwHoaQ8lqO-AR4gZhwItUx3qcE1eQmCS87Z5I5F3J

[Witch_Doctor]

Chaos.

Ink has a tattoo of the symbol for chaos on his hand.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcShXAUZuQMbwHoaQ8lqO-AR4gZhwItUx3qcE1eQmCS87Z5I5F3J

Are you talking about the symbol on his middle finger?
http://www.zombiepodcast.com/The_Zombie_Podcast/WereAliveMain_files/WA_S3%20March5%20final.jpg


I believe it is part of this veve.
2172

The veve actually out-dates the Chaos symbol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbol_of_Chaos).

[Vlarken]

Here's the theory!



"Ink" is the zombie overmind. The overmind is logical, can speak, and solve simple problems(like drive cars, understand the buzzer system at CJs, and can command the zombies). The little ones are scientific concoctions designed by "Ink". These concoctions are numbered and are different combinations of mutated traits(fast, huge, sharp nails, jump, and run fast). Ink is scientifically testing which combination of traits that will proliferate and will eliminate its competition; Human life. It is an evolutionary arms race between humans and zombies. Our weapon wits, their weapon Change.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_arms_race


The stage is set! which of the little ones will wipe out humanity!

BOOYAH!
Nate

The 'zombie overmind' thing is just the main plot of Cell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_(novel)). Also sort of like Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Not to say that it would be a terrible thing if that's how it turned out in the end, but I like the idea of Ink being a person endowed with powers by a supernatural force much more than having a scientific explanation.

[Deacon_Tyler]

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sugexp=les%3Bcesh&tok=ZdGpy-nzVsOxrk5aAcFPaA&cp=7&gs_id=6&xhr=t&q=rna+virus&safe=off&rlz=1C1_____enUS485US485&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&biw=1920&bih=979&ion=1&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=L-hlUOqLGqXi2QWDwICQBQ

They all look like RNA viruses. If we're going for a purely scientific reasoning for the zombies, an RNA virus is the only type that would mutate fast enough to cause changes on a macro level.

[Witch_Doctor]

Rotate this image 90 degrees to the left and compare it to the images on his hand. 2173 The star-like symbol at the front of the worm-like thing looks like the star-like symbol at the front of the worm-like thing on both the hand and the veve. That, plus the placement of the little stars and the snakes make these two images far more similar to each other than any single image of bacteria or RNA viruses.

Even though the tattoos can, with a high degree of confidence, be said to contain Voodoo religious symbols, it does not negate the possibility of there being a scientific explanation. Apollo astronauts have been recorded reading from the Book Of Genesis on the moon, but that doesn't mean that they could only have gotten there via angel wings.

[Deacon_Tyler]

You got me, Witchdoctor - that veve thing looks spot on to me! O_O

[Witch_Doctor]

Nah, I can't take credit for finding the veves. This glory belongs to Eviebae (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/member.php?741-Eviebae). She found it and posted it onto a thread called Chapter 27's Episode Artwork Has Voodoo Images (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?2959-Episode-Artwork-Has-Voodoo-images). But I did come across these references (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?3310-quot-Ink-quot-the-origin-and-meaning-of-his-tattoos&p=42498&viewfull=1#post42498) to veves and Voodoo beliefs.

Personally, I'm siding with the scientific explanations. Now, it might turn out that the explanation is so far beyond us that it seems mystical, but I think the religious and mystical symbols may play a roll in characters' motivations or the story's symbolic motifs. (Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. -Arthur C. Clarke)

[cupcakezombie]

KC has posted a new pic of TOWTM here: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?4152-The-special-portrait&p=56511#post56511
So thought I should bump this thread up. :)

[Red Shirt]

KC has posted a new pic of TOWTM here: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?4152-The-special-portrait&p=56511#post56511
So thought I should bump this thread up. :)

Aw damn. I'm a week late to this, but I think my head just asploded. I don't even know where to start.

Can't start now... but thanks for the bump.

[Red Shirt]

Sorry for the gratuitous bump, but* I have a question to ask of the community... I'm looking for a simple and free/open-source art/drawing program that has layering like PS does. It can be as simple as MSpaint, (prefer it actually) as long as it has a layering tool.

I'm brainstorming about this image and I'm about to get serious about investigating and posting my findings. I think it is high time I did... It's been posted for something like six months now.

"Over scienceing" something has been mentioned before... Although I don't disagree, I can't help it. I am a scientist... I may not be what is referred to as "classically trained," but I am nonetheless. I see a puzzle, a mystery, one that might be able to work out for myself and I want to tackle it. It's FUN. It's also something as it turns out, might actually shed some light on the subject at hand.


What I really need is an oooooold library, like the ones I had growing up in the north east. The creepy kind with a national historic marker out front for "Secret Meeting Site for so and so" and the funny smelling basement.

Having moved "home" to New England, I now have access to those kinds of libraries again.


As a parting shot for the evening of some of my preliminary findings:

This:
2628
Appears to be a Hydrogenated (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogenation) Isomer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isomer) of the Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycyclic_aromatic_hydrocarbon) Anthracene (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthracene). It is derived from coal tar, used to produce red dye and it is an organic semi-conductor.

This:
2629
Appears to be the amino acid Proline (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proline).

Proline is an α-amino acid, one of the twenty DNA-encoded amino acids.
Proline and its derivatives are often used as asymmetric catalysts in organic reactions.

Can anyone here read/translate (what I think is) Kanji?
2630


*Not so gratuitous after all. Turns out I had more to say than I realized. :)

[LiamKerrington]

Hey there,

@Red Shirt:
The second picture you have linked reminds me of a simplified pictogram used to display viruses; but I don't say that this is the meaning in this context.

About your request:

I don'T know for sure, but you might want to look at the programm GIMP. It is open source or at least available for free; and it is available for a variety of different operating systems. I use it to modify my avatars I use on different internet forums, and sometimes for more serious sh*t. But I haven't got into it deeply. What I often here is that it is supposed to be comparable with Photshop. So maybe you want to look at it and try it.
But I warn you: One time I tried to use Photoshop while being used to GIMP; and both programs work very different; so you have to put some effort into GIMP in order to grab its concepts and understand the linking between its functions and features:
www.gimp.org

Best wishes!
Liam

[Kc]

[s]


Can anyone here read/translate (what I think is) Kanji?
2630


*Not so gratuitous after all. Turns out I had more to say than I realized. :)

This might help slightly...

2631

[Witch_Doctor]

This might help slightly...

2631

Ooo Nice! A Rosetta Stone. :yay:

From left to right, top to bottom.

?, Rune("Algiz", 'z' sound), Eye of Horus, ?, Pentagram, ?(Battlestar Galactica's Eye of Jupiter? - nahhh)

[Malador]

The first symbol of the kanji means child.

It actually means a mother protecting its child.

[Malador]

保护 means bǎo hù, which has numerous meanings, but they relate to protection in one way or another. Conservation, Patronage, Shelter and ward are a few of the meanings.

[scbubba]

Did some investigation over lunch using the Chinese hanzi characters instead of kanji.
Looks like these characters: 保护
I think these translate to (respectively):

保 - protect, safeguard, defend, care

护 - protect, guard, defend, shelter

Here's my source info:
http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?cdqchi=%E4%BF%9D
http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?cdqchi=%E6%8A%A4

Edit: looks like I was a little late and Malador beat me to it.... :)

[Witch_Doctor]

保护 means bǎo hù, which has numerous meanings, but they relate to protection in one way or another. Conservation, Patronage, Shelter and ward are a few of the meanings.


Did some investigation over lunch using the Chinese hanzi characters instead of kanji.
Looks like these characters: 保护
I think these translate to (respectively):

保 - protect, safeguard, defend, care

护 - protect, guard, defend, shelter

Here's my source info:
http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?cdqchi=%E4%BF%9D
http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?cdqchi=%E6%8A%A4

Edit: looks like I was a little late and Malador beat me to it.... :)

How the heck are y'all typing those characters?

[Malador]

Looked up Kanji until I came across the symbol and copy pasted it. :)

[Red Shirt]

The second picture you have linked reminds me of a simplified pictogram used to display viruses; but I don't say that this is the meaning in this context.

That is something that I have considered too, given that there is an entire family of viruses that actually look like that. The Bacteriophage(s) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteriophage) to be specific. Those little nasties look like this:
2633
However, for the moment, I am led to believe that it is more likely to be a chemical symbol. I was doing some parallel research, both for my own curiosity and to update another post of mine here... when the wiki hole went from base pairs to DNA to Amino acids and there, the chemical symbols were illustrated for the twenty one amino acids (found in Eukaryotes) and I latched onto the Proline when I saw it.

Given this discussion, I decided to take a closer look and noticed something I overlooked before and inadvertently covered up with my trace job. Let me clean it up a little:
2634
It looks like there was a second line in there, representing a double carbon bond. This further suggests that this might not be Proline, as it does not have a double bond in its structure. (The pentagonal structure is also not entirely carbon, it has a nitrogen group on one corner.)
This may in actuality be an isomer of Cyclopentane (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclopentanes), perhaps even hydrogenated.

Thanks for the reminder about GIMP. I just need to summon up the courage to pull the trigger. For what I want to do though, I kinda need a drawing tablet. I just might go "old school" and have the picture printed, then trace onto transparency slides and scan them.


This might help slightly...

Wow KC, thanks! @Witch_Doctor: Rosetta Stone indeed.

@Malador & @scbubba... Very interesting... food for thought while I'm at work tomorrow. Hmm, Ward... I wonder what TOWTM could be warding against.

Well, I can't wait until my next day off so I can devote a fair bit of time to this... or at least a day where I don't get off at ass-o'clock at night.

Oh, and FYI, I don't have a basement room with a bulletin board wall with pictures tacked up and colored yarn connecting them. :tinfoil:
Yet. :D

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Oh, this thread reminds me a lot of those crypto analysis lessons back at university. :)

Well, the old Egyptians used to tattoo a slave's head with secret messages - but they also had the decency to wait until the hair had grown back.

[LiamKerrington]

Mh. Symbols of protection.
Is this a statement about his personal agenda?
Or was it a statement about his personal agenda BEFORE he became a zombie ... And did the purpose of this symbole carry over into his zombie-state?

Best wishes!
Liam

[Witch_Doctor]

Oh, and FYI, I don't have a basement room with a bulletin board wall with pictures tacked up and colored yarn connecting them. :tinfoil:
Yet. :D

Suuurrrreeee you don't. :squint:

[Malador]

There is another Damballah-Wedo veve on the lower left hand corner of Ink's face
2637
It's hard to make out but compare it to :http://altreligion.about.com/od/symbols/ig/Vodoun-Veves/Damballah-Wedo.htm

a symbol very similar to the second veve for Ogoun is on the top of his head
2638
Compare to the bottom part of:http://altreligion.about.com/od/symbols/ig/Vodoun-Veves/Ogoun--Image-2.htm'

The alchemical symbol for sulphur, the triangle above a cross, appears above his left eye. The symbol for silver or the Armanen rune for human/birth, three lines extending out upward from a central point, is directly below it. The symbol for salt or water, a circle with a horizontal line through it, is on his right nostril,and I KNOW I have seen the X's with the line through them before, as they appear on his left nostril, but I can't remember what it means.

The eye of Horus in reverse, located below his right eye, represents the moon and the Egyptian god of magic, Thoth. The circumpunct to the right of the Ogoun symbol on top of his head historically stood for the sun.

[Red Shirt]

There is another Damballah-Wedo veve on the lower left hand corner of Ink's face
2637
It's hard to make out but compare it to :http://altreligion.about.com/od/symbols/ig/Vodoun-Veves/Damballah-Wedo.htm

If you look to the right, along the cleft of his chin, you can see the other of the two snakes that comprise the Damballah-Wedo Veve.

When I jumped in tonight, I was hoping to make some connections and I did, but not where I had hoped. This seems to have opened up more questions... on the right side of his skull, the symbol looks remarkably like this Veve for Erzulie:
2641
More specifically the Maîtresse Mambo Erzulie Fréda Dahomey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erzulie#Ma.C3.AEtresse_Mambo_Erzulie_Fr.C3.A9da_Da homey) aspect. She is said to wear three wedding bands, one for each of her husbands: Damballa, Ogoun and Agwe...

Damballa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damballah), check. Oogoun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogoun), check. Agwe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agwe)... his Veve looks like this:
2642


And that's just one side...

I wonder what we might find on the back of his skull...

Something I'd like to point out is that Damballa, Oogoun, Agwe and Erzulie are counted among the Rada Loa Nanchon... beneficent elder gods/spirits/forces of creation, craftsmanship and the elements...

I mentioned previously (obliquely) what seems to be the presence of Solomonic magic talismans. Well, I was able to conduct some research at the library the other day and discovered that (in addition to the Christian influence) there seems to be the presence of Judaic influence in Voodoo magic. Notably, the presence of (ancient?) Hebrew and that many of the Veves and other talismans also bear some resemblance to those found in the Key of Solomon. This needs more work though, perhaps tomorrow I will be able to read up more on the subjects and be able to connect them better.

[Red Shirt]

I wanted to back up and try to take a fresh look at all of this... and boy, I'm glad that I want back through the older posts.


Papa Legba is the intermediary between humans and the Loa. This is one of his veves. http://altreligion.about.com/od/symbols/ig/Vodoun-Veves/Legba-2.htm Notice that this is the same as the image on the lower part of Pinstripe's hand, nearest to the rist.

Turns out I rep'd that post already... wish I could again, so here's a +1 thumb for you.

This highlighted segment here, the boxes denote blured areas I couldn't figure out until I re-read Witch_Doctor's post:
2677
Matches this Veve:
2678

Not just an "intermediary," it must be said. He's the Gatekeeper to the spirit world, Vilokan (http://altreligion.about.com/od/beliefsandcreeds/a/vilokan.htm) and a bridge between the two.


Legba is also strongly associated with the sun and is seen as a life-giver, transferring the power of Bondye (http://altreligion.about.com/od/mythologicalfigures/p/bondye.htm) to the material world and all that lives within it.
His association with creation, generation and life makes him a common lwa to approach with matters of sex, and his position as a conduit of Bondye's will makes him a lwa of order and destiny.

I'll also note that this tattoo is on his right hand. (The hand of strength, power, ect. I tried web searching for right hand myths and all I got was lefties. Stupid Google.)

A revelation I had at work the other day, an actual connection rather than throwing things at the wall to see what sticks, is that:

This seems to suggest that with the power of Papa Legba in his hand, he (thinks he) is using the power of Bondye and the spirit realm for creation as he sees fit.
(It should also be added that the Petro aspect, Met Kafou Legba, represents destruction rather than creation and is a trickster who introduces chaos and disruption.)

Another supposition I have been thinking about is weather or not TOWTM is or is not Bill Roberts, AKA: Ink. Ink was convicted of multiple homicides (last May, suspiciously close to exactly a year before the outbreak) and was confirmed to be paranoid schizophrenic by his doctors. Multiple? How Many? Serial Killer and for how long? Over here, in the WND #55 thread (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?4714-Wnd-55&p=63145#post63145), I talked about the the apparent experimentation that TOWTM is conducting at the hospital.

If Ink actually is TOWTM, I think that it's entirely possible that he didn't wait until Z-Day to start experimenting and building his army. That's what those homicides were. Failures because human biology couldn't cope with the radical things he was trying to do with them and he didn't have quite the right cocktail worked out yet. He needed "Zombie" biology and the haze for it to work.


As a parting shot for the day, I'd like to throw a few things out there.


What do you think of the positioning of the tattoos? Do you think that there might be meaning in their location in addition to the tattoo itself? I initially thought of Chakras, but but given only seven, that didn't make a lot of sense. I hit on Chi Meridians but I haven't found a good reference for that yet.
The Greek capitol letter Theta that's on his nose. I've been reading up on theta brainwaves to see if anything turns up... there may be something there.
Also looking into the chemical structure of both Tetrodotoxin and Chlorpromazine. (Thorazine, the first drug developed as an anti-psychotic.)
Curious about the nature of the faded and overlapping tattoos... are they meant to represent the experimental nature of the process or are the molecules actually far more complex than we realize?

That, and I've back burner'ed the angelic alphabets angle. All appearances seem to indicate that it's a red herring of my own making.

[Witch_Doctor]

Awesome, post. I have to run to work, but I can't wait to see what you can find out about the tetrodotoxin, i.e. puffer fish-zombie goo from Serpent and the Rainbow (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096071/).

[Eviebae]

This might help slightly...

2631

So the chicken foot looking thing at the top right is I think rune (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E1%9B%98) that means man. In a lot of the runic alphabets it's shown with curved arms, but, in many instances was found looking like the symbol on his ole' bald head. So, he may be the protector of his people/creations (zombies); the protector of the earth from the humans; or what would interest me most: protector of the human species because he saw something catastrophic about to happen and he wanted to mutate humanity to help us survive it (Granted the last one would make the need to kill us all and make us into tasty nom noms pointless). At the very least, like all genocidal monsters; he sees himself doing good.


Consider this though before we all fall down the symbol rabbit hole--It all doesn't seem to add up to a lot of information except in terms of concepts that were on his mind (or the mind of whoever tattooed him on the back of his head for instance).

In most zombie fiction, when someone engineers zombies it's to cleanse the earth of the destructive humans. This way we get to have our cake and eat it too. We get to vastly improve the quality of our morning commute; but we also get to be innocent and appalled by the slaughter. By mutating us; he believes he's actually allowing for our survival? That is, if they can have kids, otherwise we are meant to go the way of the dinosaur.

OOH! Here's a fun idea; This world having been created by aliens as a petri dish to create a sentient species has had several extinctions also created by them. The dinosaurs were cool, but other than learning how to fly, they didn't seem to advance to the next cognitive level so the aliens wiped the slate and started again. They saw us as too rapacious (or REALLY didn't like reality TV) and were warming up the eraser. Somehow, Ink found out about it. He thought trying to talk to people about it was futile, so he figured out the state that would best allow us to survive the reset.

[Eviebae]

So, do you think the bullseye is just a bullseye--denoting he's good at hitting (or catching) things?

[Inklings_Rule]

I apologize in advance for the length of this post but I needed to get this out, anyone curious about what I have to say please give me the benefit of the doubt and read the whole post . I’d really like to get some hopefully positive feedback.

I dont really have any evidence to back this up just speculating but i think the scientific explanation is more likely and i think the religious and voodoo like aspects from the tattoos are more an inspiration for inks actions. i think that ink is a bio-chemist with a fixation on voodooism and various religions having to do with aspects of rebirth, fate, and the renewal of mankind, and this religious fixation and scientific background drove him to find a way to recreate mankind to create a more perfect world. i believe through human experimentation he found a way to alter humans to a similar state as the "zombies" using aspects of modern science and homeopathic medicine, tying with his science background and voodooism beliefs, but he needed a way to spread his gospel and sought the help of the american military or a private pharmaceuticals company by using their funding for his work while working projects for them, maybe even Radon Labs located in L.A. I agree that polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons seem like a likely biological carrier due to their mutagenic and teratogenic properties and i think the tattoos may indicate that the virus is based one of those PAHs and because they are most commonly found in oil like substances such as soil, crude oil, and tar it may be possible that Ink during the course of his work found veins of tar and soil underneath inglewood maybe connected to the La Brea Tar Pits or just happenstance and he used those veins along with the highly concentrated PAHs to create a massive aerosolized release of his virus.
This second part may be a big leap but i think it would explain the seemingly simultaneous release of this virus and that is that i think Ink had co-conspirators who helped him to find multiple locations globally and to prepare and to coordinate the release of his virus, he did it on his own, or im just completely wrong.
Another point you made was that maybe tonya didnt find anything in the blood was because the virus didnt actually add something to the body but it actually recoded DNA that was present in human genetics but dormant and this could explain the rapid rate at which people turn because the virus is using the body’s nature to maintain equilibrium and once the DNAs recoded the body mutates itself and it could account for the varying rates of turning because each persons genetic profile and compatibility with the virus would vary, it could really explain a lot if its true.
This could also explain the special variants because it means that Ink likely used his understanding of his virus to first infect himself with a strain of the virus that allowed him to in large part retain his intelligence and simultaneously gain the attributes he needed to take power in his new world, and using this retained intelligence and understanding of the virus he began experimenting once he gained control. Along with his experimenting i believe the virus is highly mutative and varying neurological, physiological, and genetic factors influenced some of the biters to become runners, some to be smarter, some to be more violent or aggressive, and it would explain why the jumpers disappeared so quickly because they were a failed mutation. This experimenting would also better explain the arena it wasn’t just a hive it was a proving ground of sorts that was used to find the promising candidates for his experimentation and as a way to train his "people" for the inevitable conflicts that would occur with humans. the idea of experimentation would also explain two things that have been bothering me why was there blood, body parts, and corpses all over that ward in the hospital and why haven’t there been any indications of juvenile zombies. Even assuming that the viruses initial stage had a high mortality over infection rate which it would have to or else L.A. would have been overrun with millions of the infected and I think there were tens of thousands at best, that still means that there should be infected children and if there had been im sure that someone by now would have been shocked by it. So I think that Ink is using all of the infected children he can find as test subjects to create his soldier inklings hoping to take advantage of a child’s physical and neurological adaptability to improve his success rate, but I think he had a high failure rate before he was successful which would explain the blood, fingernails, and broken syringes on the beds ands and the blood streaks, body parts, and corpses that were strewn throughout the ward. Ink continued to experiment with his Inklings even after he’d created 12 of them which would account for the rapid growth and the continued and seemingly controlled adaptations and mutations.

[Witch_Doctor]

I apologize in advance for the length of this post but I needed to get this out, anyone curious about what I have to say please give me the benefit of the doubt and read the whole post . I’d really like to get some hopefully positive feedback.

I dont really have any evidence to back this up just speculating but i think the scientific explanation is more likely and i think the religious and voodoo like aspects from the tattoos are more an inspiration for inks actions.

I agree, the voodoo symbols are inspirational, not the source. I think Ink is using his unique circumstances and possible insight to capitalize on the outbreak. He didn't start it but he may have known it was coming, its effects and maybe even experimented with some of the contagions. Perhaps even building up some sort of immunity or tolerance to the source via exposures to the Hot Spots. perhaps this exposure can explain his 'insanity'.

[Inklings_Rule]

I figured that it would be a stretch that Ink started it i just wanted to put the idea out there, but at the very least i think Radon Labs is involved because its too coincidental that a government or private laboratory just happened to be in the city where this virus started or at least where there's a hotspot. i also think that Radon Labs was either studying the cause of this event or virus, or that they possibly even had something to do with it. And I really think Ink was involved like maybe he worked there, understood what happened, or was connected to them and the event in some way.

[Grognaurd]

RE: Blood in the Hospital

If one wants science, one of the biggest is the Law of Thermodynamics. We live in a world where energy is required to do things. We are biological machines and our energy is measured in calories. Say the contagion rewrites the metabolism and changes the structure of biological machine. That will require calories. The initial outbreak may start with mindless killing machines because they are literally insanely hungry. We see "eating" in the initial outbreak, but then it seems to stabilize and we even see advanced planning and "food" storage.

But, I would be remiss if I did not put on my Tinfoil hat. :tinfoil: Wars are most often fought over a scarcity of resources. I do not have enough, so I am going to take yours. Keep stealing all the dinosaurs I put underground to ferment for 65 millions years so they taste just right and I might get really pissed off and come out of the Earth and kill you to stop you. Hell, I might even take a few billion of your dead bodies and cram them underrground to start the seasoning process. LOL

Seriously though, the one thing that has not been given enough discussion is what Saul says to Angel on their first trip out. "I do not get it, three (?) days and there is no one left in LA. Where did everyone / every "body" go? Say we have a 5,000 biters in LA. There is no way they each ate 1,000 people in three days.

[Robzombie]

Yeah good point. Where has a mass of 5 million, among millions elsewhere; zombie, still human, or corpse, actually gone to??

Sssshhhh...I think maybe it's something we're not supposed to think about.

IDK, maybe that many bodies can be spread over such a large area without it not actually looking like a LOT of bodies...

[Inklings_Rule]

im positive that he engineered this virus or that he at the very least had a very good understanding of its properties. he has a tattoo on the right side of his skull representing the veve for Erzulie pointed out by Red Shirt and her veve has the connection to her husbands Damballa, Oogoun, and Agwe who represent creation of life; craftsmanship, creation, and war; and the ruler of the seas, those are respective to each husband. Red Shirt made the point that one of the tattoos on upper left of his skull could represent either a bacteriophage or a hydrogenated carbon bond, and if it’s the bacteriophage read the introduction and it says they can be found in bacterial places like soil and can be found in enormous quantities in sea water, Agwe lord of the seas anyone.

Red Shirt made some points that I think give my idea some weight on page six on some of the symbolism in his tattoos and his possible origin, id quote but im not entirely sure how.

[Inklings_Rule]

Has anyone put any real thought into what triggered the event and its global spread because its not it could have spread through transportation not with how fast people turned. Did it happen the same way as in L.A. some sort of seismic activity and a release of some sort of pathogen, and if so how did happen almost simultaneously within a day or less of the initial event. I sort of think there had to be some sort project being done on a glodal scale researching something, testing something, and maybe some sort of accident or unforseen consequence, or maybe it was just a really horrific large scale natural catastrophe. Anyone have any ideas how it happened maybe even how Ink is involved, if thats who TOWTM really is.

[Inklings_Rule]

Sorry about the grammar in that one

[Storm]

He (TOWTM) keeps reminding me of Mal'akh from Dan Brown's "The Lost Symbol" ... At least he does now that I've read this topic. :D
Interesting theories, keep researching. (I would if I had been sighted, trust me, I love mysteries like this. Hehe.)

[Witch_Doctor]

Has anyone put any real thought into what triggered the event and its global spread because its not it could have spread through transportation not with how fast people turned. Did it happen the same way as in L.A. some sort of seismic activity and a release of some sort of pathogen, and if so how did happen almost simultaneously within a day or less of the initial event. I sort of think there had to be some sort project being done on a glodal scale researching something, testing something, and maybe some sort of accident or unforseen consequence, or maybe it was just a really horrific large scale natural catastrophe. Anyone have any ideas how it happened maybe even how Ink is involved, if thats who TOWTM really is.

Several people have. Forum member, Redshirt, has a pretty in depth theory that, reputedly, got some interesting attention from KC at a We're Alive Cast & Crew event. http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?4020-I-think-I-have-it-guys-A-good-quot-Zombie-quot-Plague-origin-theory

[ZombieWildfire]

Just to add my highly insightful comments on TOWTM's tattoos.

The one on his face, in between the two snakes, looks like a sock giraffe.

I know, I know, that probably changes everything. You're welcome.

[cringebot]

Very interesting theories. I read a few book on alchemy before and many of these symbols seem like variants of Alchemical Symbols. Alchemy was kept very secretive by Alchemists (who are basically modern day chemists) in fear of blasphemy. So they encrypted their formulas. It even goes back further, no one really knows, but I imagine that even some of these old works you have been discovering could of been alchemic legends themselves. I don't think it would even matter if you could decipher it. You would just get a lot of chemicals for a fictional outcome.

[Kc]

We lost this one in a database reset:

My crazy theory on Ink and his tattoos is he through his research knew there was going to be a release of the haze that would infect everyone. He wanted to be on top and devised a way to remain relatively safe in custody but had pens smuggled in with a ink infused with follistatin

[Red Shirt]

I posted this over in the 42 3/3 thread, but it desperately needs to be posted here.
I'll need to come back to it. To clean it up and expand upon it, but this all just came to me and kinda hit me like a freight train.
I copy pasted it to get it up here quickly, this thread seems to be easier to find and the chapter threads seem to get buried after a while.

Alright, I managed to shake of the funk I was in and I thing I might have nailed something significant to the wall:

From Chapter 42, 3/3:
Test Subject #2, George Armstrong, 53. Inmate conflict. Doped with Folistatin and Stanozolol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanozolol).
(You may note that Puck repeated himself, pronouncing it two different ways. Maybe to be sure we got the spelling right?)

Stanozolol is a synthetic anabolic steroid derived from Dihydrotestosterone.
(You'll need to click on the images, black lines on a clear background.)

This is Stanozolol:
2989

This is Dihydrotestosterone:
2990

Look familiar yet? It should, Dihydrotestosterone looks like the tattoo on the back of his hand.

Now, Stanozolol chemistry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanozolol#Chemistry) is a bit vague, but it is said that: "The pyrazole ring in stanozolol can be prepared from oxymetholone by the condensation of a keto-aldehyde with hydrazine."
The Pyrazole ring is the HN/N pentagon on the left side of the Stanozolol. It looks like this:
2991

Now like I said, I'm not clear on the chemistry, but I think it means that Stanozolol is synthesized from Oxymetholone By building a Pyrazole ring on one end.
Oxymetholone loks like this:
2992
That looks remarkably like the tattoo on the right side of his skull.... and that Hydrogenated Cyclopentane isomer I mentioned above? It's actually probably a Pyrazole ring. The synthesis of Pyrazoles mention de-hydrogenation. (The removal of that little forked tail.)

The tattoos on his body are describing the synthesizing of one of the chemicals that he is using in his experiments. Stanozolol.


Boom baby. I still got it. Maybe.

[Eviebae]

3004
Found this, it's a rune but I don't know how ancient.
It might be based on a real rune.

hraethigaldur: Puts fear into the enemy

[Red Shirt]

3004
Found this, it's a rune but I don't know how ancient.
It might be based on a real rune.

hraethigaldur: Puts fear into the enemy

Those seem to be Magical Norse/Viking runes, though not part of the Elder Futhark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elder_Futhark).

Here's the two that I mentioned in the WA FanCast this week... It's not posted as a podcast yet, though it is listenable through YouTube.
These are from the Season 4 artwork.

Left Hand:
3005
(Hammer and sickle, hammer replaced with arrow.)

Right Hand:
3006
("Alchemical Sulfur," except double barred and curly "tails.")

Now, I have yet to suss these out, but your post has opened a whole new branch of investigation.
Going back to the S4 art and with the rune lead, I discovered this, also on the left hand:

3007

is a pretty close match for this:

3008

Gibu Auja, for "Good Luck." Note however, that it is inverted in the tattoo. Might this then mean bad luck or a curse for others?

[Red Shirt]

(Sorry for the double, but I think that I hit my picture posting limit in the last one.)

Also, I am drawn back to this area on his scalp:
3010

Which bears some artistic similarity to this piece:
3011
(Russian site, I'll need to reverse image search this one for more info.)

Well shucks, I didn't think I was going to have much to do tonight... looks like I'll actually have my hands full chasing these down.

Edit/update:

I think I've got this one drilled down a bit more, it seems to be similar to Icelandic Magical Staves (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_magical_staves), though I haven't found a match yet... though there seems to be a fascination for this in Russia. A lot of sites I've come across are in Russian.

[Red Shirt]

Triple post, but I think it's worth it.

Shifting gears back to Chemistry, I wanted to chase down something I noticed earlier:

This hydrocarbon:
3014

Repeated in the Season 4 art:
3015

I figured a little deduction aught to be able to crack this one open. I found a site where I learned that a hexagon diagram without the double lines (or circle) is actually Cyclohexane, not Benzine:

Benzine:
3016

Cyclohexane:
3018

So, using a bit of chemistry logic, I applied the prefix "Di-" to the front of the chemical. Dicyclohexane does exist:
3019

...and I think I found a gold mine.

I found a scientific paper written about a study on the affect of Dicyclohexane derivatives on testosterone and dihydrotestosterone in rats. Trying to get my head around it, but it sounds like it has a selective inhibition effect on testosterone. Pay wall, but the abstract is HERE (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0022473185901980).

However, I also learned that Dicyclohexane inhibits the aromatization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromatase) of testosterone... simply meaning that it slows/stops the conversion of androgens into estrogens. Aromatase plays a strong role in sexual development and if it is deficient in women, it can lead to Virilization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virilization) and Amenorrhoea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amenorrhea)... sounds a bit like the "underdeveloped secondary sexual characteristics" that Tanya discovered in the autopsy.

Reports of excess Aromatase (AES (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromatase_excess_syndrome)) have indicated that besides the sexual differentiation complications, it can lead to short stature... It stands to reason that if it is inhibited, the reverse could be true. Tall inklings and Behemoths.

It has also been shown to decrease cell death in brain injuries... therefore its absence or inhibition may increase neural cell death, ie, zombification.

Wow.

[Eviebae]

I just found out about your podcast! I listened to the last one but not the live one (I wanna). I can't believe you've been going for so long without me knowing:britt:.

BTW I noticed you did some awesome isolations (shutup spell check, it is too a word) of the tattoos. Can Jannit and I use them for The Symbols category for the Wiki? We wanna have his head and have closeups with possible meanings (the Wiki "no more than 5 attachments" rule sucks mud)


I first recognized the Voodoo Veve on his hand in the art for Chapter 27 and I've found bunches more since.
1685
Ah yes, fun on a Saturday night.

The thing about the veves is there are lots of sub-types for the same Loa (spirit) depending on who it comes from. Papa Damballah figures very prominently in Mr. Ink's face-lapedia. Here's a doll from a website that has a bunch of his symbols on it:
3013

But here's another one from a different website (]http://www.voodooshop.com/voodoo/vever.html) that looks very much like the ones on his left cheek near his mouth and his chin.
1678
Why this photo isn't showing up I have no clue; just click on it I guess

The sort of ginormous one on his scalp I believe is for Loko (now no longer a gray image on a black background).:D He was the first priest/hougan and looks after them.
3020
Funny thing is, none of the Loas he's tattooed himself with are dark or difficult. Papa Damballah is a protector and guider of mankind (hrm, sound familiar?)



Also, I am drawn back to this area on his scalp:
3010

I think that's the seal for either the angel Bethor or Phaleg, from a book Agrippa wrote--I haven't decided which.
3012
Here's a link (http://books.google.com/books?id=_dtYAQAAQBAJ&pg=PA389&lpg=PA389&dq=agrippa+seal+of+phaleg&source=bl&ots=sVlkAkeA9X&sig=lg9vJO-GKQAXUPNtp2gKoWx6HrU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qW_8UpCjD8XZ0wGvm4GwCw#v=onepage&q=agrippa%20seal%20of%20phaleg&f=false) that I hope works to a book on talismans and amulets which quotes it (by a guy with the wonderful name of Budge )

It was also used in Silent Hill, something about a bunch of symbols on the TVs in the mall.

Of the two, I'm leaning towards Bethor.

#2 "Seal of Bethor who commanded 29,000 legions of spirits"
#3 "Seal of Phaleg the warlord."


There's more but it's late...like :mad: late

[Red Shirt]

I just found out about your podcast! I listened to the last one but not the live one (I wanna). I can't believe you've been going for so long without me knowing:britt:.

Oh, it's not my podcast... I was just a guest. :)



BTW I noticed you did some awesome isolations (shutup spell check, it is too a word) of the tattoos. Can Jannit and I use them for The Symbols category for the Wiki? We wanna have his head and have closeups with possible meanings (the Wiki "no more than 5 attachments" rule sucks mud)


Absolutely! I used to use select/copy/paste in MS Paint, but I discovered that the windows snipping tool is much, much faster. I've been using it tonight. A lot.


I think that's the seal for either the angel Bethor or Phaleg, from a book Agrippa wrote--I haven't decided which.
3012
Here's a link (http://books.google.com/books?id=_dtYAQAAQBAJ&pg=PA389&lpg=PA389&dq=agrippa+seal+of+phaleg&source=bl&ots=sVlkAkeA9X&sig=lg9vJO-GKQAXUPNtp2gKoWx6HrU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qW_8UpCjD8XZ0wGvm4GwCw#v=onepage&q=agrippa%20seal%20of%20phaleg&f=false) that I hope works to a book on talismans and amulets which quotes it (by a guy with the wonderful name of Budge )

That looks spot on to me.

Here's more fuel for the fire: I talked about Erzulie and her husbands Damballa, Oogoun and Agwe back here (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?3310-quot-Ink-quot-the-origin-and-meaning-of-his-tattoos&p=62304&viewfull=1#post62304), noting that the Veve for Agwe was not visible. I might have found it:

Agwe's Veve:
3021

Art for Chapter 11:
3022

If you squint and crank up your pareidolia... you can almost see it.



There's more but it's late...like :mad: late

I know, my contacts feel like they are glued to my eyeballs... :britt: I'm getting them out and going to bed before I need paint remover to get them out.

[FunkyDung]

I wrote a post on this topic in a different thread, and I'm just copying it here since it fits. I also don't want to lose it in the mounds of posts on 42-3.


I've been doing a bit of wandering around on the net, and a few ideas keep bumping into each other, but I haven't been able to pull out anything solid. The following are some disconnected bits and pieces that hopefully someone can help me connect. I apologize if this ground has already been covered, but I haven't had time to read all the messages in this lengthy thread.

Foremost among the ideas that frequently occur in my searches is hermeticism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeticism). From Wikipedia:



If memory serves, the fellas at We're Alive Fancast mentioned Golden Dawn in relation to one of the symbols. Interestingly, Golden Dawn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic_Order_of_the_Golden_Dawn) gets a mention in the article on Hermeticism (as does Rosicrucianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosicrucianism)). Someone should dig further into this. The cipher manuscripts of the Golden Dawn seem particularly relevant with respect to Ink's writings.

Hermetic teachings refer to three parts of the wisdom of the whole universe: alchemy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemy), astrology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology), and theurgy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theurgy).

Other topics that come up are aspects of esotericism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esotericism) and theosophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosophy).

Someone mentioned that Ink may have an image of a benzene molecule. Interestingly, benzene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzene) as a tie to occult and alchemical symbolism. The fellow who discovered the ring structure of benzene said that the idea came to him in a daydream of an uroboros (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros), a snake eating its own tail. Snakes and serpents show up in countless mythologies.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_%28symbolism%29)
Lastly, I think the Borromean rings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borromean_rings) on Angel's ring should be looked into. I have a sneaky suspicion that the Family has some connection to Ink and his mystery cult (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_esotericism).

Well, it's quite late here, so I should hit the hay. I hope this helps someone move the symbol and story investigations along. :)

[FunkyDung]

Some alchemy symbols:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dPiYDL9Bfpc/TsHvDWOUw_I/AAAAAAAADB4/KXQjEfNEZsA/s1600/alchemy%2Bsymbols%2B4.png

https://lh3.ggpht.com/-8G__ZQ8EBRw/TpfwxLheCaI/AAAAAAAACCQ/_9J8pYJrMRE/s1600/alchemy%2Bsymbols%2B3.png

https://lh3.ggpht.com/-wJ3SsibfT2Q/TpfwwkqKVMI/AAAAAAAACCE/1r3HJykDe-s/s1600/alchemy%2Bsymbols%2B2.png

https://lh3.ggpht.com/-h2bwKw8SUUE/Tpfwvxwp0tI/AAAAAAAACB8/nliLREpOEDg/s1600/alchemy%2Bsymbols%2B1.png

[FunkyDung]

Uroboros/Ouroboros (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros) and benzene:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Benzene_Ouroboros.gif

[Grognaurd]

I like how symbols repeat. In the second colum, second to last row is a circle with a dot. It signifies sol. The sun. In Egyptian hieroglyphics it is the symbol for Ra, the sun god. It is used in any pharo cartouches and we say Ra like Ramses or Rey like Kafre.

One of King Tut's other names was neb khepher ru re.

[Eviebae]

I like how symbols repeat. In the second colum, second to last row is a circle with a dot. It signifies sol. The sun. In Egyptian hieroglyphics it is the symbol for Ra, the sun god. It is used in any pharo cartouches and we say Ra like Ramses or Rey like Kafre.

One of King Tut's other names was neb khepher ru re.

I've noticed a lot of visual similarity between the Voodoo Veves and the Angelic Sigils and the alchemic symbols. I think there must be a lot of cross chatter between the groups.

[7oddisdead]

Careful folks...this is how conspiracy theories are born..


and by "careful" i mean...im in. What do i need to blow up? (figuratively speaking)

[Grognaurd]

I should have written this in the above, but the Egyptians actually thought gold was skin of the sun god.

Just interesting trivia, I do not think it has anything to do with Were Alive. Ink's currency is a pound of flesh, not gold coins.

[Eviebae]

I should have written this in the above, but the Egyptians actually thought gold was skin of the sun god.

Just interesting trivia, I do not think it has anything to do with Were Alive. Ink's currency is a pound of flesh, not gold coins.

Never too much trivia. You should watch Qi (Quite Interesting) on YouTube--hosted by Stephen Fry. It's kind of a quiz show where they burst all sorts of generally held "truths" but mostly have fun.

So, does this mean when they made things out of gold they thought they were actually using his flesh, or his dead skin flakes? I wonder how much the common person believed--what with grave robbers and such.

[Jannit]

Hi Everyone.

I've been a bit derailed with my attempts to get the wiki updated for the symbols but finally managed to get something together that I wanted to share and get your thoughts on. There are quite a lot of ideas floating around on the different symbols and their meanings but I think we have a number of them nailed down. I've created something of a compilation of the different symbols (or attempts at them) and the headshot of Ink. Some of the symbols in the picture are from other sources that have already been mentioned and others are attempts to recreate what I see.

My intention with this is to try and pick up all of the symbols that are visable and then expand upon them in the wiki. I haven't been able to make out the ones on Ink's right cheek and jaw and would love some input so I can update the compilation picture. At this point, I'm just ignoring the meanings and will try and transfer everything people have brought up here and in other threads to the Wiki in the near-ish future. I'll be doing the same thing for the hand photo either today or tomorrow.

Thanks in advance!

Here is a link to the photo. (http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt338/onerandomchance/NumberedCompilationV2_zps499f59f7.png)

[FunkyDung]

I think I see two rods of Asclepius - one on the chin, blended with another symbol, and one touching the right corner of his mouth (the viewer's left in the image).

[Jannit]

I think I see two rods of Asclepius - one on the chin, blended with another symbol, and one touching the right corner of his mouth (the viewer's left in the image).

Ah, okay! I see what you mean now about the one touching the right corner of his mouth. I'm not so sure about the one on the chin. Do you mean the one in the middle of his chin that has the grey boarder in the picture? Sorry, just trying to make sure I follow.

[FunkyDung]

I see it as faintly present with (under?) the symbol connecting his bottom lip to his chin. It's so faint that it looks like an old tattoo that was covered by the one you already identified. You have to blow up the image to see it, but it's there.

[Jannit]

I see it as faintly present with (under?) the symbol connecting his bottom lip to his chin. It's so faint that it looks like an old tattoo that was covered by the one you already identified. You have to blow up the image to see it, but it's there.

Gotcha. I think I see what you're talking about. I'll try zooming in enough to make a reasonable re-creation. Thanks!

Here's an updated attempt. (http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt338/onerandomchance/NumberedCompilationV2_zps499f59f7.png)

[Eviebae]

This might help slightly...

2631

I think I found the source for this and it's on a page (http://ww.mamacreepy.com/images/protection.jpg) full of magical symbols of protection.

[Jannit]

Nice find, Eviebae!

[Muertog]

So, went to the live show last night. Great production, girlfriend and I thoroughly enjoyed it! (No Spoilers!)

Was doing random web browsing today, saw a picture that amused me in how similar it was to the "do not touch" marking:
3200