Burt vs Scratch

[Robzombie]

I'm thinking , just throwing this out there, that there will be a finale between Burt and Scratch where they both end up dead. And prior to that, or part of that scene or interaction will involve Scratch telling Burt who/what Angel was really all about, otherwise how would we ever find out? ...and I think it would be fitting for them to take each other out as they are both badasses in their own right and have especially had it for each other since they first met. "scarface" vs "old man"...totally epic.

[ClearSights]

Your idea is great but...

What if they are so alike in their "badass" aspect, that they find out that they like each other and become allies. And then "dun dun dunn" Scratch asks Burt to help lead the Maulers and Burt accepts due to him believing that everyone else is dead...

[nikvoodoo]

I'm thinking , just throwing this out there, that there will be a finale between Burt and Scratch where they both end up dead. And prior to that, or part of that scene or interaction will involve Scratch telling Burt who/what Angel was really all about, otherwise how would we ever find out? ...and I think it would be fitting for them to take each other out as they are both badasses in their own right and have especially had it for each other since they first met. "scarface" vs "old man"...totally epic.

If my personal pet theory of Scratch orchestrating the circumstances of her own demise turns out to be untrue, I'd put all my money on Riley. While we are uncertain of her feelings about Angel and unless she's actually got a situation in her britches for Lizzy, it's certainly looking like a nice story arc if Riley is the one to bring about Scratch's end for taking that which mattered to her most.

And there is still Lizzy, Bricks and potentially Hannah alive to pass the information on to the Tower folk. Lizzy is good at getting information, Bricks seems like he's able to be manipulated and could be swayed to join the cause, and Hannah would have been with the Mallers the longest and learned the most in theory. Not to mention Angel's killing was recorded. All anyone has to do is get a hold of that tape and information be passed on to the next person.

[7oddisdead]

Only reason I could see for Burt to NOT just tell scratch what she wants to know is that's likely his lifeline. Burt is cunning enough to find a way to prolong his time( perhaps not telling...but showing where they went). I mean really, its been mentioned before by others but what reason would he have to worry about his friends safety knowing where they went?..none. Burt's main concern is his own ass. He's gotta get out of those chains...then what happens, happens

[Osiris]

Spoiler: Scratch will be the last one standing. Ain't nothing in this world can stop that crazy broad.

Me ---> :love: <--- Scratch

[Robzombie]

I can't see anyone else but Burt taking our Scratch...Riley??? I can't help but think that that is like saying Princess Leah took out Darth Vader...with all due respect, no way, good story telling woulnd't even have Han Solo doing it, no one but Luke is suitable for the deed, just like I feel that with the relationship that these two characters have had, it can only end up being Burt. With his hate as it is for Scratch, hearing about Angel would only fuel his fire, and Burt is a total survivor, fight to his dying breath kind of guy...he's not becoming a turncoat and he's totally taking her out....I don't think it will be anytime soon though as Scratch is a primary protagonist, for the time being. Maybe end of third season (which is actually soon) but some questions or developments will need to happen at the same time, like the introduction, or re-introduction of a new/old protagonist. Maybe bringing Duria back into the immediate picture...end of season 3?

[Osiris]

I can't see anyone else but Burt taking our Scratch...Riley??? I can't help but think that that is like saying Princess Leah took out Darth Vader...with all due respect, no way, good story telling woulnd't even have Han Solo doing it, no one but Luke is suitable for the deed, just like I feel that with the relationship that these two characters have had, it can only end up being Burt. With his hate as it is for Scratch, hearing about Angel would only fuel his fire, and Burt is a total survivor, fight to his dying breath kind of guy...he's not becoming a turncoat and he's totally taking her out....I don't think it will be anytime soon though as Scratch is a primary protagonist, for the time being. Maybe end of third season (which is actually soon) but some questions or developments will need to happen at the same time, like the introduction, or re-introduction of a new/old protagonist. Maybe bringing Duria back into the immediate picture...end of season 3?

Whoa... Burt is NOT the Luke of the We're Alive universe. He's not whiny enough. No, I'm afraid that distinction would have fallen on the prodigal son: Angel. Sadly, he died a tragic death.

Han = Michael
Luke = Angel (Rest In Peace, bro.)
Lando = Saul
Chewbacca = Victor (because Chewie is the most bad-ass one)
C-3PO = Datu
Leia = Pegs
Boba Fett = Scratch
Darth Vader = Durai
Darth Maul = Latch
Yoda = Burt
R2 D2 = Lizzy (because she's been captured by Sand People)
Mon Mothma = Kelly
Admiral Ackbar = Kalani (it's a traaaaaaap)

[Robzombie]

Haha, omg, thats awesome...you thought wayyyy too much about this :)

I still think that the relationship between the two was done for a reason. Sure she has a background with Angel, but the conflicts with Scratch were mostly with Burt, (first time we meet Scratch at the tanker, fighting in the stairwell) and I think it needs to come to finale. I got $100 pretend dollars for any takers??? I'm stubborn, so I will still say Burt and Scratch take each other out, come on guys, $100 pretend dollars, :)

[Osiris]

Haha, omg, thats awesome...you thought wayyyy too much about this :)

I still think that the relationship between the two was done for a reason. Sure she has a background with Angel, but the conflicts with Scratch were mostly with Burt, (first time we meet Scratch at the tanker, fighting in the stairwell) and I think it needs to come to finale. I got $100 pretend dollars for any takers??? I'm stubborn, so I will still say Burt and Scratch take each other out, come on guys, $100 pretend dollars, :)

I'm not a betting man... but if I had to lay money down, it would be on Scratch. No question.

[Cabbage Patch]

My pretend money is on Scratch versus Riley, with swords.

[Osiris]

My pretend money is on Scratch versus Riley, with swords.

You could give Riley ANYTHING and she'd lose. Hell, give her a nuke and she'll just go get drunk and pass out before doing anything with it.

[ClearSights]

I'm on scratch's side if it came down to Scratch v Riley

[Osiris]

This should have been a poll.

[Red Shirt]

You could give Riley ANYTHING and she'd lose. Hell, give her a nuke and she'll just go get drunk and pass out before doing anything with it.

If Kimmet's visit to Pantex is any indication, then that might not be too far off the mark.

[Osiris]

If Kimmet's visit to Pantex is any indication, then that might not be too far off the mark.

I'm trying really hard to envision that, but the pieces just don't fit. I'll wager they find the cause and the cure before it comes to that.



Right now, Kc is rolling around on the floor laughing at the fact that none of us have a clue what's coming. :o

[Red Shirt]

Right now, Kc is rolling around on the floor laughing at the fact that none of us have a clue what's coming. :o

Probably.

Even in the fictional context though, the thought of the detonation of a nuclear device on US soil I find chilling.

[Osiris]

Probably.

Even in the fictional context though, the thought of the detonation of a nuclear device on US soil I find chilling.

I agree. And to a certain extend I can sort of get behind the idea. I think there will definitely be that looming threat, but I it just feels a little too defeatist for my sensibilities. Then again, Kc has really created a downer vibe from the beginning of the story. Everything falls apart whenever things start to look a little less gloomy. Who knows? You may very well be 100% correct. I just hope the story doesn't take that route.

[7oddisdead]

Well..i for one appreciate the downer vibe, too many z-apacolypse stories fall into the "cozy" segment of the genre..things should not end happily..this is not a happily ever after type situation after all

Maybe scratch will be the last one standing....that would be fitting

[Osiris]

Well..i for one appreciate the downer vibe, too many z-apacolypse stories fall into the "cozy" segment of the genre..things should not end happily..this is not a happily ever after type situation after all

Maybe scratch will be the last one standing....that would be fitting

Well, that's the kick though. The true unhappily ever after ending would be they don't launch, end up overrun and all the safe-zones fall under the crushing weight of the hordes that are roaming unchecked and unknown. If they launch and wipe out a large enough section of the zed populous, it's technically a win (even if it leaves the ground scorched and uninhabitable). I'd rather see a further scattering of "tribes" by end of the story. If you're going to go bleak, fuck it... go bleak. Don't half-ass it and give me hollow victories.

[7oddisdead]

Exactly...that's why I like the tease of dropping nukes..but never letting happen..that to me, would be the way to do it.

[Osiris]

This is starting to get away on us...

[7oddisdead]

very true...reeling it in






bottom line from me is..knowing where the burt/scratch situation stands as of right now, i cant see anything battle royale-esque happening...would be foolish on burts part to engage in something like that...not for his own safety, but for the fact that he must be aware of lizzzie still being held as well.

[Winston]

he must be aware of lizzzie still being held as well.

Scratch doesn't do anything without leverage. Lizzie is her leverage on Burt. She had nothing on Angel because he was dying anyway (slow and painfully as the Doc said) so all she could really do to him was kill him faster (thanks Scratch!). But Burt is alive, possibly with some broken bones so beating him may not help anything...but beating Lizzy might work. What are the odds the guys made an "in case of capture" story? Tell them the group went to some other place...like Catalina Island perhaps? Plausible with the helicopter and believable as a safe, secure destination since it is a nearby island...and completely overrun with Zed, who can swim. Poetic since Pegs is Scratch's white whale. Scratch is a psychopath...and like most psychopath's she is an utter coward who's bravery only comes out when the victim is under her control...i.e. chained up, wrapped in bandages in a burn ward, holding a kid hostage. Remember, her brother is dead because she ordered him into the building first, in fact screamed at him to shut up and get moving. Burt won't get her, but he may lie to her just enough so the biters can...and drag her ass to the newly relocated "arena" at Dodger Stadium :)

[Osiris]

Scratch doesn't do anything without leverage. Lizzie is her leverage on Burt. She had nothing on Angel because he was dying anyway (slow and painfully as the Doc said) so all she could really do to him was kill him faster (thanks Scratch!). But Burt is alive, possibly with some broken bones so beating him may not help anything...but beating Lizzy might work. What are the odds the guys made an "in case of capture" story? Tell them the group went to some other place...like Catalina Island perhaps? Plausible with the helicopter and believable as a safe, secure destination since it is a nearby island...and completely overrun with Zed, who can swim. Poetic since Pegs is Scratch's white whale. Scratch is a psychopath...and like most psychopath's she is an utter coward who's bravery only comes out when the victim is under her control...i.e. chained up, wrapped in bandages in a burn ward, holding a kid hostage. Remember, her brother is dead because she ordered him into the building first, in fact screamed at him to shut up and get moving. Burt won't get her, but he may lie to her just enough so the biters can...and drag her ass to the newly relocated "arena" at Dodger Stadium :)

Wait... so Scratch has wooden teeth? :hsugh:

[Nate Eeez]

There will be a definite war of words between Scratch and Burt. Can't wait to hear the great one liners from that conversation/interrogation.

Why do people keeping thinking that Riley is a badass? Yeah, she has done a few things, but overall, she's been whiney. AND she was not into Angel in THAT WAY. She contemplated a potential fling, but dudes are not her preference. She only considered Angel briefly because pickens are slim for her particular tastes.

@ Osiris . . . Michael is Luke. Angel was Han. Michael is our "hero". It's his journey. The other comparisons were spot on.

[werewolf]

My pretend money is on Scratch versus Riley, with swords.

naw. Riley would hunt down Scratch and pin the bitch to wall with arrows. then let the zombies have at her.

[Robzombie]

In chapter 23, part 3 of 3. After they escape the hospital with the chopper, Burts monologue goes something like this... "I almost accepted my death for the 3rd time in my life...maybe there was a reason I was still here after all this...maybe....maybe..."

I'm tellin ya, something important with Burt is gonna happen that revolves around the Scratch/Angle/Lizzie story line....something pivotal.

...maybe he's the how that re-unites Lizzie and Saul...maybe at the same time takes out Scratch...maybe sacrifice's himself to make this all happen...maybe...maybe

[nikvoodoo]

...maybe he's the how that re-unites Lizzie and Saul...maybe at the same time takes out Scratch...maybe sacrifice's himself to make this all happen...maybe...maybe

Ding Ding ding. That has my vote! Well the sacrificing part. He's not taking out Scratch. Someone else will. Not Burt.

[Osiris]

@ Osiris . . . Michael is Luke. Angel was Han. Michael is our "hero". It's his journey. The other comparisons were spot on.

Michael isn't the one with familial ties to the dark side. Plus, Michael wasn't nearly as whiny as Angel.

[Nate Eeez]

Michael is still the hero. Or at least the main protagonist. We were introduced to him first. The reluctant leader. We saw what happened when he said fuck 'em let them have Burt. Okay he didn't really use those words but it turned out they needed him to lead. He is/was their hope. I say "was" because they have all split up now. He is still the glue. We know most of our characters though him. They'll come back together. Family always does. Especially for a funeral.

[Osiris]

Michael is still the hero. Or at least the main protagonist. We were introduced to him first. The reluctant leader. We saw what happened when he said fuck 'em let them have Burt. Okay he didn't really use those words but it turned out they needed him to lead. He is/was their hope. I say "was" because they have all split up now. He is still the glue. We know most of our characters though him. They'll come back together. Family always does. Especially for a funeral.

I disagree. Michael isn't the main protagonist. He's part of an ensemble. This isn't the sort of story that really has a protag/antag/contag structure. It's definitely more based on a collection of archetypes. We don't know our characters through Michael, we know them through the journals. Each character's own words and experiences.

[Nate Eeez]

I meant we are introduced to our characters through Micheal. He's the first to journal. Then gets the others to do the same and we learn more through their writings. Last ep. Michael chimes in outta nowhere with something like this is where things start to go to shit or something to that effect. Why bring in his voice if he isn't our main dude? There are many archetypes and many people who get their own turn at being the star for a chapter. But in the beginning, it's Michael who is telling us the story "from when it all started" as if he is writing things down after-the-fact.

I started listening from the beginning again. Angel, who annoyed me at first, doesn't sound so annoying. Felt some sadness though.

[Osiris]

I meant we are introduced to our characters through Micheal. He's the first to journal. Then gets the others to do the same and we learn more through their writings. Last ep. Michael chimes in outta nowhere with something like this is where things start to go to shit or something to that effect. Why bring in his voice if he isn't our main dude? There are many archetypes and many people who get their own turn at being the star for a chapter. But in the beginning, it's Michael who is telling us the story "from when it all started" as if he is writing things down after-the-fact.

I started listening from the beginning again. Angel, who annoyed me at first, doesn't sound so annoying. Felt some sadness though.

Obvious answer is: to maintain the connection with the remainders of the Tower. It has nothing to do with his being the 'main protagonist' and everything to do with reminding us that the rest are gone. I would argue that he's a main character in the arc of the story, but he's not really anything more than that.