Fort Irwin Blood testing

[Memis]

I believe it was mentioned that the zombies were rotting and smelled bad ect. That would indicate some kind of viral infection and no blood flow. So the blood depending on when the victim was bitten would thicken due to no blood flow. Fort Irwin, even with a "slow turn" even with a basic blood testing field kit would have some kind of anomaly. The soldier did mention that had blood from one that turned so you do have your control and ..lol zombie blood. There are doctors at fort irwin, that have lab equipment, it might be basic however...maybe the virus need better equipment to identify. Or its just one of those things you leave to the imagination. :zombie:

[ClearSights]

I never thought of the theory of if they have blood and if so, if the virus is freely swimming around in it. Whenever the shoot or kill one there really isn't a mention of blood spray or that much. I'm guessing that they have blood but its like decaying and only in them because it was there in the beginning. They don't need it i'm guessing. But if the infection in the first place was cause because of a virus then it could still be in the decaying blood and be able to be drawn out and examined....if the right equipment is around.

[Shouldersmalone]

The zombies still have blood and a pumping heart evidenced by how fast they move and by the fact they bleed when shot, they also have salvia as this is what transfers the infection in a bite and we know they get hungry and feed so they have a metabolism.their blood and what's in it must be important it's not the source but its the carrier of the infection. And the antibiotics Saul is using must be important

[Osiris]

It raises an interesting question. It also makes me think... what else rots and smells bad? Oh, right... dead things.

ibyarribabblesaboutbreathing

[Shouldersmalone]

Rotting flesh smells bad but you dont have to be dead to have rotting flesh. Gangrene is a serious and potentially life-threatening condition that arises when a considerable mass of body tissue dies (necrosis). This may occur after an injury or infection, or in people suffering from any chronic health problem affecting blood circulation.[2] The primary cause of gangrene is reduced blood supply to the affected tissues, which results in cell death !! this could be a side affect of the infection this is much more plausible

[Osiris]

Rotting flesh smells bad but you dont have to be dead to have rotting flesh. Gangrene is a serious and potentially life-threatening condition that arises when a considerable mass of body tissue dies (necrosis). This may occur after an injury or infection, or in people suffering from any chronic health problem affecting blood circulation.[2] The primary cause of gangrene is reduced blood supply to the affected tissues, which results in cell death !! this could be a side affect of the infection this is much more plausible

I think the most plausible element here is the fact that zombies are re-animated corpses 99% of the time. The most likely explanation for the smell of rot and decay is the dead body. I could get behind the chronic health problems, but it doesn't strike me that the zombies are merely asthmatic.















Kidding, I'm just being a douche. :love:

[yarri]

ibyarribabblesaboutbreathing


When did I babble about breathing?.... Wait I did. Yes, Kc's zombies breathe therefore they have beating hearts and functional circulation systems. Oh and they're warm too!


Rotting flesh smells bad but you dont have to be dead to have rotting flesh. Gangrene is a serious and potentially life-threatening condition that arises when a considerable mass of body tissue dies (necrosis). This may occur after an injury or infection, or in people suffering from any chronic health problem affecting blood circulation.[2] The primary cause of gangrene is reduced blood supply to the affected tissues, which results in cell death !! this could be a side affect of the infection this is much more plausible

Also take into account that changes in body chemistry can make a person have an "odor". Kc's zombie's smell like shit, not like rotting flesh, but like shit. As I grew up around a large group of hillbilly uncles and aunts that were all avid hunters and fishermen. I will tell you that the musk glads of any deer, bear, and cougar when triggered by the hunt causes the animal to smell like shit. Its why in a deer the glands have to be removed first thing or it makes the meat uneatable.
I think what ever caused the infection and subsequent mutations focuses on the animal or primitive and what we're seeing in the infected is a regression back to a state of primal being.

http://www.brainhealthandpuzzles.com/brain_parts_function.html <---for anyone that would like a read on parts of the brain its well done and simple to understand

[Osiris]

When did I babble about breathing?.... Wait I did. Yes, Kc's zombies breathe therefore they have beating hearts and functional circulation systems. Oh and they're warm too!

You're assuming quite a lot based on breathing. Zombies have had breath since the very beginning. They've been able to moan, groan, and spmroan. Ok, I made that last one up for effect. The point is, we still have absolutely no definitive proof that they are, in fact, alive.

[yarri]

You're assuming quite a lot based on breathing. Zombies have had breath since the very beginning. They've been able to moan, groan, and spmroan. Ok, I made that last one up for effect. The point is, we still have absolutely no definitive proof that they are, in fact, alive.


They sleep. (Chapter 3 The New Arrivals: Saul noted the biters sleeping down below their roof location at Locked and Loaded) That is a sign of something that lives. The dead do not sleep, they are dead.

Nothing dead breaths; there is no need for breath in something that is dead. And before anyone pops up with the whole it might be a remembered habit from when they were alive. I ask this what part of the brain has remembered habits... the brain in all its glory. A dead damaged brain (this happens in less then four minutes) is still dead.

They salivate. (chapter 7 Blood Sweat and Fears: At the dropping of the sweat bottles they were seen to have gross salivation. They were dripping with slobber like hungry dogs. Dead things do not have functional parasympathetic nervous systems, nor do they make acetycholine, the neurotransmitter that makes you salivate.

They require food to survive.

They bleed.

All things that show signs of life.

[Osiris]

They sleep. (Chapter 3 The New Arrivals: Saul noted the biters sleeping down below their roof location at Locked and Loaded) That is a sign of something that lives. The dead do not sleep, they are dead.

Nothing dead breaths; there is no need for breath in something that is dead. And before anyone pops up with the whole it might be a remembered habit from when they were alive. I ask this what part of the brain has remembered habits... the brain in all its glory. A dead damaged brain (this happens in less then four minutes) is still dead.

They salivate. (chapter 7 Blood Sweat and Fears: At the dropping of the sweat bottles they were seen to have gross salivation. They were dripping with slobber like hungry dogs. Dead things do not have functional parasympathetic nervous systems, nor do they make acetycholine, the neurotransmitter that makes you salivate.

They require food to survive.

They bleed.

All things that show signs of life.

These are all things that zombies have done in every zombie movie since the beginning of zombie movies. It doesn't mean anything. Continuing to use the same argument to try and sway my thoughts is not working. Come up with something new.

[yarri]

These are all things that zombies have done in every zombie movie since the beginning of zombie movies. It doesn't mean anything. Continuing to use the same argument to try and sway my thoughts is not working. Come up with something new.


I don't use zombie movies at all in reference to this podcast. I'm pretty sure its a bitch to try and edit out the breath of 100 extras in zombie make up at a night shoot. So zombie movies sort of don't count in my book.

I'm not trying to sway your thoughts at all. You have your own opinion and who am I to try and change it. I answered the questions posed to me of why I thought and still think they are alive. All the things I listed are signs of life.

Do you dispute that the things I listed are signs of life?

[Osiris]

I don't use zombie movies at all in reference to this podcast. I'm pretty sure its a bitch to try and edit out the breath of 100 extras in zombie make up at a night shoot. So zombie movies sort don't count in my book.

I'm not trying to sway your thoughts at all. You have your own opinion and who am I to try and change it. I answered the questions posed to me of why I thought and still think they are alive. All the things I listed are signs of life.

It's not about editing out anything. The simple fact that the zombies produce SOUND means that they're moving air over their vocal cords. How do they do that?! They're dead! They can't be both dead AND alive! That makes no sense! They must be alive... but what about that one who has the entire lower half of its body ripped away from its upper half? How is it still crawling and making groaning noises!? That is just batshit fucking crazy! You can't simply discount the zombies that have come before if you're going to discuss the genre itself. That's just ludicrous. Just because it doesn't fit into your theory doesn't mean you can simply toss it aside like it doesn't exist.

[yarri]

It's not about editing out anything. The simple fact that the zombies produce SOUND means that they're moving air over their vocal cords. How do they do that?! They're dead! They can't be both dead AND alive! That makes no sense! They must be alive... but what about that one who has the entire lower half of its body ripped away from its upper half? How is it still crawling and making groaning noises!? That is just batshit fucking crazy! You can't simply discount the zombies that have come before if you're going to discuss the genre itself. That's just ludicrous. Just because it doesn't fit into your theory doesn't mean you can simply toss it aside like it doesn't exist.

Are we talking about the movies or about the podcast?

and do you dispute any of my points as signs of life?

[Osiris]

Are we talking about the movies or about the podcast?

and do you dispute any of my points as signs of life?

Did you read any of what I posted?

[yarri]

Did you read any of what I posted?
Yes I did but I'm confused by it. I would say your discussing the movies... but its you so I don't assume I ask. So, I figured I'd ask for clarification.

[Luna Guardian]

You can't simply discount the zombies that have come before if you're going to discuss the genre itself

Of course you can. If KC is reinventing the zombies for his podcast, he can discount anything he wants that has come before. And so far I fail to recall an instance where a dead body came to life after being infected with the virus. The zombies bleed, they die from other than pure headshots, they breathe and whatever they breathe into their lungs obviously affects them (as proven by the chloroform experiment). They starve unless they feed (the zombies Michael and Pegs ran into while swimming), therefore they must have metabolisms.

The series doesn't have supernatural or divine undertones (no magic or influence of Hell in the zombies) to account for these, so we're left with science (although granted leaning in the fictional section). Dead beings don't have metabolisms, don't have circulation and don't sleep (why would they need to?).

Yarri's right here Ozzy

[Shouldersmalone]

It's not about editing out anything. The simple fact that the zombies produce SOUND means that they're moving air over their vocal cords. How do they do that?! They're dead! They can't be both dead AND alive! That makes no sense! They must be alive... but what about that one who has the entire lower half of its body ripped away from its upper half? How is it still crawling and making groaning noises!? That is just batshit fucking crazy! You can't simply discount the zombies that have come before if you're going to discuss the genre itself. That's just ludicrous. Just because it doesn't fit into your theory doesn't mean you can simply toss it aside like it doesn't exist.

Ok Luna Guardian and Yarri im with you 100% and i`m sorry to say Osiris but i think youve been watching too much True Blood. Theres no magic or curses involved with these zombies.

To specifics to mentioned the crawler torn in half see my previous point about about necrosis and teh smell if there starting to rot then there have problems with blood circulation meaning they wont bleed out if injured. yarri also made an interesting point about smell that this smell might be a typr of feromone produced by the zombies we know that they are attracted by smell (the sweat experiments) and Victor`s cologne grenades

[Miss]

osiris, yarri has a point that THESE zombies appear to be alive, Ive watched close to a 100 "zombie" movies. Right from the 1930s and the term "zombit" tends to be an umbrella term, the main type of zombies of the dead zombie the voodoo zombie and the infected zombie.
DEAD zombies are dead people that come back to life
VOODOO zombie alive people that are given a "potion" that has a form of toxin that messes up the brain and lets the person be controlled as in a servent
INFECTED zombie body is infected with some virus or bacteria that distroy the brain and body
so yarri can be right

[Osiris]

Of course you can. If KC is reinventing the zombies for his podcast, he can discount anything he wants that has come before. And so far I fail to recall an instance where a dead body came to life after being infected with the virus. The zombies bleed, they die from other than pure headshots, they breathe and whatever they breathe into their lungs obviously affects them (as proven by the chloroform experiment). They starve unless they feed (the zombies Michael and Pegs ran into while swimming), therefore they must have metabolisms.

The series doesn't have supernatural or divine undertones (no magic or influence of Hell in the zombies) to account for these, so we're left with science (although granted leaning in the fictional section). Dead beings don't have metabolisms, don't have circulation and don't sleep (why would they need to?).

Yarri's right here Ozzy

All explainable. The only thing she's right about is the fact that living creatures breathe, eat, and sleep. Much the same way I have proven that zombies do, much like the source material has shown. If we're not going to acknowledge the source material, we cannot deem these creatures to be zombies, rather "infected living beings."

As far as whether or not there is 'something mystical' at work, you cannot say definitively that there is not when you cannot definitively give a cause.

I will ask politely at this time, not to call me Ozzy. Thank you.


Ok Luna Guardian and Yarri im with you 100% and i`m sorry to say Osiris but i think youve been watching too much True Blood. Theres no magic or curses involved with these zombies.

To specifics to mentioned the crawler torn in half see my previous point about about necrosis and teh smell if there starting to rot then there have problems with blood circulation meaning they wont bleed out if injured. yarri also made an interesting point about smell that this smell might be a typr of feromone produced by the zombies we know that they are attracted by smell (the sweat experiments) and Victor`s cologne grenades

Osiris doesn't watch True Blood, but you must if you're considering that's where my theory comes from. In fact, it comes from a long history of zombie films. Show me my post saying that magical forces were behind this?


osiris, yarri has a point that THESE zombies appear to be alive, Ive watched close to a 100 "zombie" movies. Right from the 1930s and the term "zombit" tends to be an umbrella term, the main type of zombies of the dead zombie the voodoo zombie and the infected zombie.
DEAD zombies are dead people that come back to life
VOODOO zombie alive people that are given a "potion" that has a form of toxin that messes up the brain and lets the person be controlled as in a servent
INFECTED zombie body is infected with some virus or bacteria that distroy the brain and body
so yarri can be right

Dead zombies are NOT dead people that come back to life. They are dead corpses that are reanimated. As Yarri suggested earlier, they are not living at all.
It IS possible that these creatures are a form of "zombi', but it seems unlikely given the location of the outbreak and the fact that it spreads. We can rule those out based on that fact alone.
Infected humans is a possibility, but if they are we can't call them zombies. We'd have to go with "infected humans."

[Miss]

like I said the term zombie is an umbrella term and WA creatures do fall under the umbrella term
for the dead zombie I KNOW they dont come back to life I meant to put qutaition marks around the word life but forgot
the three terms are just 3 branches of definations of zombies and there are many branches inside those and our modern idea of zombies actually didnt come into reality untill the 1960s with before that all zombie stories were all of the voodoo sort

[Osiris]

like I said the term zombie is an umbrella term and WA creatures do fall under the umbrella term
for the dead zombie I KNOW they dont come back to life I meant to put qutaition marks around the word life but forgot
the three terms are just 3 branches of definations of zombies and there are many branches inside those and our modern idea of zombies actually didnt come into reality untill the 1960s with before that all zombie stories were all of the voodoo sort

I've been watching zombie movies since I was seven, so I'm about as well versed as you can be with zombie lore, not to mention the books I've read and essays I've researched and written. I'm not saying I'm an expert, as that would be incredibly vulgar, I'm simply highlighting the fact that I understand your post and that which you have outlined. Considering that we still do not have a decent working theory as to why the 'zeds' steal the bodies, we cannot say with 100% certainty that there are NOT animated dead among their ranks. The fact that nothing short of a headshot seems to stop them, stands in favour of everything that we know about 'zombies'. I've outlned before how these creatures fall into traditional definition and all I've seen in response is 'we think they breath, and bleed, and sleep.'

Good job.

[7oddisdead]

hmm..

I think the real thing to consider here with all the unknowns is..are the "zombies" alive, or are they merely host's for something alive? the fact is we could sit here all day and argue back and forth about breathing, not breathing, sound, blood, etc..and only work ourselves into a frenzy of words and gnashing of teeth..but until we have a definitive answer of whatthefuck things like "the haze" are..or a few of the other strange anomallies going on..the living or dead thing is kind of moot...looks like a duck, smells like a duck...must be a zombie..however you choose to definite it

[Osiris]

hmm..

I think the real thing to consider here with all the unknowns is..are the "zombies" alive, or are they merely host's for something alive? the fact is we could sit here all day and argue back and forth about breathing, not breathing, sound, blood, etc..and only work ourselves into a frenzy of words and gnashing of teeth..but until we have a definitive answer of whatthefuck things like "the haze" are..or a few of the other strange anomallies going on..the living or dead thing is kind of moot...looks like a duck, smells like a duck...must be a zombie..however you choose to definite it

You raise an interesitng question. Are they hosts for something else. Gives yet another meaning to the title "We're Alive." I've always loved those sorts of movies. Invasion of the Body Snatcher-esque stories that completely strip the characters of choice.

[trubkir]

What confuses me is the jumper that jumped across to the tower. It infected Tommy but didn't bite Tommy. Burt killed it with a shotgun blast that wasn't definitively a head shot. Tommy was killed by a fall but it wasn't defined whether he landed on his head. Upon returning to the tower after "flowerpot gate" Burt used a claymore to mow down a horde of zombies. You can't tell me that every single zombie that got killed was hit in the head by a fragment. I don't remember any statement where an eviscerated zombie was seen alive in this story. Are we absolutely sure that it requires a head shot to kill these zombies?
I can't say these zombies are dead or alive. I just now that for the human brain and human muscles to work they need oxygenated blood to circulate. I like the "host" theory for this reason. The "parasite" in whatever form it is uses the basic functions of the human host to support it's activities. I think this is why it seems that grievous injury kills these particular brand of zombies.

By the way in the story the term zombie has only been used by the tower members. The mall faction and the colony both used "things".

[reaper239]

What confuses me is the jumper that jumped across to the tower. It infected Tommy but didn't bite Tommy. Burt killed it with a shotgun blast that wasn't definitively a head shot. Tommy was killed by a fall but it wasn't defined whether he landed on his head. Upon returning to the tower after "flowerpot gate" Burt used a claymore to mow down a horde of zombies. You can't tell me that every single zombie that got killed was hit in the head by a fragment. I don't remember any statement where an eviscerated zombie was seen alive in this story. Are we absolutely sure that it requires a head shot to kill these zombies?
I can't say these zombies are dead or alive. I just now that for the human brain and human muscles to work they need oxygenated blood to circulate. I like the "host" theory for this reason. The "parasite" in whatever form it is uses the basic functions of the human host to support it's activities. I think this is why it seems that grievous injury kills these particular brand of zombies.

By the way in the story the term zombie has only been used by the tower members. The mall faction and the colony both used "things".

KC said (somewhere around here) that the zombies were alive, but infected. that's why it doesn't just take headshots to kill them, they die just like anyone else, except they ignore pain. that's why they need to eat, like at the nest.

[Osiris]

KC said (somewhere around here) that the zombies were alive, but infected. that's why it doesn't just take headshots to kill them, they die just like anyone else, except they ignore pain. that's why they need to eat, like at the nest.

Link?

[Memis]

What confuses me is the jumper that jumped across to the tower. It infected Tommy but didn't bite Tommy. Burt killed it with a shotgun blast that wasn't definitively a head shot. Tommy was killed by a fall but it wasn't defined whether he landed on his head. Upon returning to the tower after "flowerpot gate" Burt used a claymore to mow down a horde of zombies. You can't tell me that every single zombie that got killed was hit in the head by a fragment. I don't remember any statement where an eviscerated zombie was seen alive in this story. Are we absolutely sure that it requires a head shot to kill these zombies?
I can't say these zombies are dead or alive. I just now that for the human brain and human muscles to work they need oxygenated blood to circulate. I like the "host" theory for this reason. The "parasite" in whatever form it is uses the basic functions of the human host to support it's activities. I think this is why it seems that grievous injury kills these particular brand of zombies.

By the way in the story the term zombie has only been used by the tower members. The mall faction and the colony both used "things".

I do believe that zombies can be somewhat stunned for a brief period. Obviously my friend you have not seen a clay more in action. At close proximity the results are more than what you would think. Also they can dismember rendering the zombie stunned then, disabled. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBB3OS0Ir2U

[Cabbage Patch]

I do believe that zombies can be somewhat stunned for a brief period. Obviously my friend you have not seen a clay more in action. At close proximity the results are more than what you would think. Also they can dismember rendering the zombie stunned then, disabled. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBB3OS0Ir2U

I have to agree on the issue of claymore mines. The impact of a claymore at short range isn't a difference between head-shot and body-shot, it's a difference between minced and pureed.

[reaper239]

Link?

i can't remember, but i think he mentioned it during the live broadcast. and i could've sworn i saw it somewhere around here.