Chapter 26- "Who Overcomes" Part 3

[nikvoodoo]

Final installment! Do we find out who's in the hood? Will Victor come to save the day? Did Datu get lucky????

All these answers and more in this week's episode*!

*note: none of these things may be answered this episode.

[Hellbringer]

Will we hear from Lizzy?

I don't get to listen to this until after work, and after going through a supernatural marathon this weekend, I am so looking forward to this week's episode.

[beezball]

I can actually hear you saying all that in a 1930's high pitch radio voice.

Be sure to drink your Ovaltine!

[Chogidog]

All right... It's out!

[Chogidog]

GREAT CLIFFHANGER! (i hate you lol)

[Adventureless_Hero]

Very interesting. I had suspicions about all that was to happen but it was still very intense listening. I teared up listening to the disparity in Saul's voice. It almost redeems him for being such a fool. Thank goodness Victor is there to be a voice of reason.

So now we can pretty much assume that Chin Huey is from the other tower, and could still possibly be CJ. As I heard the descriptions of how her stronghold was set up I could not help but think of the way Kalani described CJ's tower. I really have no clue where 27-1 will go from here. I'm hoping that Saul and Victor will find some clue as to the whereabouts of the Mallers, but I'm guessing it will focus more on Michael and crew at Ft. Irwin.

Oh, and there is potential for Mr. Whiskers to find refuge at Chin Huey's! She keeps kitties around to keep bugs and mice in check.

Great fucking episode. I went from laughing at Saul and Victor being mistaken as "partners" to nearly crying when I hear Saul pleading for Chin Huey's help. Kudos KC and cast!

[Ra1th]

That was amazing!!!!!! Bet you anything Kalani was the traitor, he infiltrated tower 2, and they caught him, no other reason his file would be with the mallers. I've been saying it woulc ome down between kelly and kalani for forever! Suck it people who thought it was Angel, Datu (*cough* nikvoodoo *cough*), or anyone else! I can't believe no one had thought that tower two could have had encounters with the mallers. Or maybe someone did and I didn't see it. Either way, this was awesome! Just surprise after surprise!

[Ra1th]

Very interesting. I had suspicions about all that was to happen but it was still very intense listening. I teared up listening to the disparity in Saul's voice. It almost redeems him for being such a fool. Thank goodness Victor is there to be a voice of reason.

So now we can pretty much assume that Chin Huey is from the other tower, and could still possibly be CJ. As I heard the descriptions of how her stronghold was set up I could not help but think of the way Kalani described CJ's tower. I really have no clue where 27-1 will go from here. I'm hoping that Saul and Victor will find some clue as to the whereabouts of the Mallers, but I'm guessing it will focus more on Michael and crew at Ft. Irwin.

Oh, and there is potential for Mr. Whiskers to find refuge at Chin Huey's! She keeps kitties around to keep bugs and mice in check.

Great fucking episode. I went from laughing at Saul and Victor being mistaken as "partners" to nearly crying when I hear Saul pleading for Chin Huey's help. Kudos KC and cast!

Dude it's gotta be CJ. There's no one better to add to the cast. her name starts with a C, and is kinda long, so it's probably Chin-huey to anyone else and CJ to her friends. She seems damn smart and can survive one her own. It would be a cop out if it werent her.

[Adventureless_Hero]

OH YEAH! I totally missed that!
I was thinking they saw Kalani's file because he was a member of Chin Huey's original group, but no, you are right! Chin Huey only handed them Maller relevant files, so that would mean Kalani had some doings with the Mallers! Holy Rat Farts! lol I totally missed that!

[Kc]

Mr. Whiskers to find refuge at Chin Huey's!

Before we get 1000 different spellings, the Correct Spelling is Chinwe

[Adventureless_Hero]

Before we get 1000 different spellings, the Correct Spelling is Chinwe

Thank you!

So there is great potential for this to be CJ. But now I'm wondering about what Raith pointed out regarding Kalani's file. I just went along all "La-dee-da" not even realizing the gravity of Saul and Victor seeing that file. At first I thought Kalani's file being there with Chinwe was to be expected; she was a member of the other tower, Kalani said he was a member of another tower. But the files Chinwe gave to Saul and Victor were only those related to the Mallers. What tie did Kalani have with the Mallers?!

[Raven]

Thank you KC I really thought I heard Chin Wei but everyone seemed to have heard something else.... So her last name is Jung....? XD

[Adventureless_Hero]

I'm wondering if Chinwe purposely went in circles to get them dizzy or if the circles were the curving ramp of the parking structure. The tire squeal sounded reminiscent of a parking garage and soon after they went in circles it went dark as though they were there already. Not that knowing that would make much of a difference.

[timberwoof]

Ha, its more than likely CJ and she took them back to the other tower. Good episode.

[nikvoodoo]

Suck it people who thought it was Angel, Datu (*cough* nikvoodoo *cough*), or anyone else!

Hey, how'd Angel's time as leader of the Tower go.....oh that's right.....

Kudos all involved. Another great episode, and I really really liked the gender mistake Saul made right off the bat saying "that guy...guy guy guy" and Chinwe turns out to be a girl.

At work so I can't comment much more. But I'll get more thoughts in later today.

[Ra1th]

Suck it people who thought it was Angel, Datu (*cough* nikvoodoo *cough*), or anyone else!QUOTE]

Hey, how'd Angel's time as leader of the Tower go.....oh that's right.....

Kudos all involved. Another great episode, and I really really liked the gender mistake Saul made right off the bat saying "that guy...guy guy guy" and Chinwe turns out to be a girl.

At work so I can't comment much more. But I'll get more thoughts in later today.

HEY HEY! THAT COULD STILL HAPPEN!!! Stop smashing my hopes and dreams :mad:

[nikvoodoo]

HEY HEY! THAT COULD STILL HAPPEN!!! Stop smashing my hopes and dreams :mad:

You mean the Tower that's in pieces all over LA? Is he going to lead all the kings horses and all the kings men around the wreckage? ;)

[Adventureless_Hero]

Fudge! Damn it. I am more confused as to what to believe now more than ever!

There is still a slight chance that Kalani's file was only in there because he was a member of the other tower. Although Chinwe gave those files to Saul and Victor saying, "here. Here are all the places, times, interactions that happened with anyone from there." Victor says, "there are names here, other people, who saw them!" and Chinwe says to ignore that because they are all dead now. Perhaps Kalani only saw the Mallers once but is not believed to be KIA due to his capture by the flesh biters. If Chinwe put the files of her people in that pile, people who had even the slightest interaction with the Mallers, then it is reasonable to believe that Kalani's folder is in there simply because he saw the Mallers at some point in time, maybe even at a distance. Kalani "Saw prisoner group a mile off on the 11O."

Not that I think that's the case as I totally believe he was involved with the Mallers now, but I'm just saying it's an option.

[nikvoodoo]

In relation to Hero's thought: It could be a report filed by Kalani about the Mallers. The cliffhanger could be weilding a double edged sword: Is Kalani a Maller in Tower clothing/Is the definitely CJ from the other Tower and what does that do to the story?

[Adventureless_Hero]

In relation to Hero's thought: It could be a report filed by Kalani about the Mallers. The cliffhanger could be weilding a double edged sword: Is Kalani a Maller in Tower clothing/Is the definitely CJ from the other Tower and what does that do to the story?

All that wording I spewed out and you put it so succinctly. Kudos.

[UndeadSweeper]

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Wasn't Hope, the blind girl, from the other tower as well? If so wouldn't Kalani have known her and then Chinwe?

[nikvoodoo]

All that wording I spewed out and you put it so succinctly. Kudos.
I'm good like that. You had a lot more information, I was specifically speaking to the cliffhanger only. You had a lot more analysis of the plot point.


Please correct me if I'm wrong. Wasn't Hope, the blind girl, from the other tower as well? If so wouldn't Kalani have known her and then Chinwe?
Yes. She was. Kalani would know her, but if Hope can't see she wouldn't be able to ID Kalani when she got to the Tower. So if Kalani's story is to be believed, then he would have known both CJ and Hope.

[UndeadSweeper]

Alright then why didn't Hope's mother at the arena never ID Kalani as being from the other tower?

Also during the entire tower chapters, has Kalani and Hope ever spoke to each other? Even being blind, the voice would be a tell tell sign.

[nikvoodoo]

Alright then why didn't Hope's mother at the arena never ID Kalani as being from the other tower?

You snuck an edit in on me ;):

You (as well as just about everyone else including me) possibly got taken in by a story telling slight of hand. We assumed because Samantha had information about Kalani that they knew each other before they were captured. I also think she might have said they came to rescue us and we assumed it meant her and Kalani. But it may be she was just thrown in there, spilled her guts about the Other Tower and Kalani stole the story once he escaped.

Regardless of Kalani's true story....what he was or was not responsible for.....we know what his final action was. So if he was the Rat, he definitely earned back his stripes.....PS I still hold to my guns that the Rat is still alive.

No matter what the reason: I'm really really looking forward to March 5 now.

I deleted your next post undeadsweeper since it was a clarification about your edit that I caught after I posted. Just keep things neat and tidy 'round here. :)

[UndeadSweeper]

Thanks Nikvoodoo. I'm still thinking that this thing would have been pick up by anyone reading the journals.

[UndeadSweeper]

And don't worry, I'm one of the rare people that liked Kalani. :)

[7oddisdead]

I so rarely get to say this(please allow me 2 seconds of brag)

Called it....

Ok, I'm done :)

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

LOL.. a thousand different spellings.. aka Pippen. Peppin..
Ok and I'm sulking because it wasn't Skittles..
Thanks for adding more diversity to the cast KC!

[Grognaurd]

Stole a listen through. I forgot my good headphones again. These got chomped on by my puppy so they keep shorting out and crackling. But, first thoughts

Kalani:

If kalani was a maller, and not from the second tower, he did a pretty good job getting the story down. It seems to mesh very well from what we heard from Samantha and Hope. If CJ's name did come up in discussion, so did a lot of her backstory. Why would Kalani feel compelled to bring that up with the risk that he forgets. As Latch says, keep it simple.


Flesh out possibilities first.
1) He was a maller and met Samatha at the arena and is a good story teller
2) He was a maller, defected or infiltrated The Other Tower
3) He was what he said and never was a maller

First, Hope... Remember, Hope comes from the Colony on day 1 and Day 2 Kalani is out with Datu on helicopter duty. Much of that 24 hour period is probably Kalani helping Pegs with helicopter stuff. As she is blind, she will not recognize Kalani. If Kalani was at The Other Tower it wasn't very long. He might not have gotten to know everyone. Hope herself said they tried to keep her out of the way. Last, the blonde he may have seen at The Other Tower was not blind as Hope is know.

But, there is someone who did recognize Kalani. Skittles recognized Kalani. Angel was a bone head (Sorry Wraith) and did not put it together. Angel thinks Skittles is talking about meeting him, Riley and Datu. But, I would guess that Skittles recognizes Kalani from before. My guess is Skittles would have only known Kalani from The Other Tower. Assuming his psyche was as fractured as it is now, I do not think they would risk taking Skittles on a covert mission. Maybe Skittles only had the psychotic break after The Other Tower was hit.

Putting some other obscure info together...

Kalani said he flew from Hawii but had trouble landing because of debris on the runway. Burt writes in his journal that there was a hawiian airliner crashed at the airport.
Kalani said he got out of The Other Tower when it was hit. But, being fat, he did not run far and was caught that night. Samantha says she was on the run a couple of days before being captured and brought to the arena and when she got there he was already there.

So, why the Kalani File? Kalani was late to the party so maybe she kept an eye/file on him. When Victor brings up names, she says they are all dead. It sounded pretty harsh and defensive. I guess these were the people from the other tower and she is bitter about letting them down. I do not think she would act the same for dead mallers.

Last, Kalani could be the rat, but not the thief. After the theft, security would be higher. Would they let the new dude use the radio? Alone?

[Eviebae]

First: :mad:Gaaaaaaaaaaaa<@#$%&@* :mad:cliffhanger:mad:@#$%&@*>aaaaaaaaaaaaaah!:mad:

Second: I just sat there ticking off my wish list--

She's female
She's smart
She has an industrial sized can of Whoop-Ass
Her hideout's wonderfully planned and fortified
Has locales/safe-houses all around the area
Lots of how-to-books



Now all I want is someone to do the mass zombie killings (successfully) to clear the area out and I'll die a contented zombie

The actress is excellent--Her acting is top notch and I really felt the physicality of her fight with Saul

[Paolo912]

Skittles has been stealing from the Farms.


Anyone else think so?

[bequita]

Maybe. That would make a little sense. But I don't think it's the only reason he's survived.

[awkwardalex]

Skittles has been stealing from the Farms.


Anyone else think so?

Ohh, I like that idea.

and since i'm late to the party...holy shit! That was great! I am now going to spend the allotted time between chapters relistening to the series (again) in search of Kalani clues, because he was my last thought of a rat, but now it would make sense...

I wonder...yeah i'd think that Skittles would be stealing food, he has to survive somehow.

[reaper239]

i don't think kalani was the rat in the traditional sense. i think they captured kalani's loved one (that was my samantha (or whatever)) and that interaction is why she had a file on him. also, this is the other tower and she was the only survivor. i like the skittles thing.

[Gobbi]

I've always felt that Kilanis story sounded fishy. Why would you fly from Hawaii to LA (ground zero). There are hundreds of secluded islands the same distance, or anywhere along the pacific coast...

But..now that we think Kilani is with the mallers, maybe Scratchs comment at the end of season 2 is about Kilani..not Angel

Question? I know the arena was blown up, but how do we know it was cleaned up? Who saw it was cleaned up? What makes anyone think they took over the hospital?

[Paolo912]

I've always felt that Kilanis story sounded fishy. Why would you fly from Hawaii to LA (ground zero). There are hundreds of secluded islands the same distance, or anywhere along the pacific coast...

But..now that we think Kilani is with the mallers, maybe Scratchs comment at the end of season 2 is about Kilani..not Angel

Question? I know the arena was blown up, but how do we know it was cleaned up? Who saw it was cleaned up? What makes anyone think they took over the hospital?


How were Kalani and the other supposed to know what was going on hundreds of miles away in LA. Michael and the Tower didn't even know that there was a "ground 0" until Kalani told them, and he had found out just recently (From Samantha). And the reason he didn't land anywhere else? Same reason they flew out from Honolulu, No runway large enough (I don't know a lot about planes or airports, just guessing)
Saul went to the arena, there were no bodies left.
Unless KC shows us where they Arena Zombies went, we can only assume that the Hospital Zombies are what remain.

[reaper239]

I've always felt that Kilanis story sounded fishy. Why would you fly from Hawaii to LA (ground zero). There are hundreds of secluded islands the same distance, or anywhere along the pacific coast...

But..now that we think Kilani is with the mallers, maybe Scratchs comment at the end of season 2 is about Kilani..not Angel

Question? I know the arena was blown up, but how do we know it was cleaned up? Who saw it was cleaned up? What makes anyone think they took over the hospital?

the implications are that it happened everywhere at once, after all, in the tivo'd broadcast we caught back in season one there were reports that it was happening in several cities at the same time. and have you played dead island? i don't want to be on an island with zombies.

[HardKor]

Damn, here I thought the cliffhanger wasn't too interesting but I come on here and now you all have got the hamster wheel in my head turning. Now I'm thinking that Kalani has to have some connection to the Mallers. It just wouldn't be right for Kalani to be mentioned like that and have it come to nothing.
But I'm kinda with nikvoodoo on the whole Kalani/rat situation. I think the rat's alive and Kalani's gonna be another red herring like Bill was. My inclination is to think that maybe Kalani and co. crashed at LAX, were taken hostage by the Mallers and Kalani got away and ended up at the Other Tower. I wouldn't be surprised if Chinwe blames him for the Other Tower's collapse but then Kalani's journals will vindicated him. I kinda feel like I was rambling there so I hope that all makes sense.

[Adventureless_Hero]

FYI: Chinwe means "God owns"

Not sure if that means anything but I know there have been discussions regarding the religious implications of the character names.

[UndeadSweeper]

Nikvoodoo, please take in account that Kalani's last act wasn't just because he want to turn a new leaf. But also that the Maller killed the Liz stand-in and he knew who she was. Kalani was involved with the Maller.

[Litmaster]

So let's see:
- Hoodie IS a girl
- And she is from the other tower
- and there are multiple gardens (farms)

Hmmm.... who called all that? Ah yes, that would be me. That should at least deserve a little golf clap, right?

:meh: (clep-clep-clep-clep...)

...uh, thank you. So, less theories to put forward for this new episode, but:

Chinwe = C.J.
No question about this one: the smarts, the toughness, the knowledge of mines & firearms, the mention of dead friends... all this points to her being from the other tower. And yes, they probably called her C.J. because we stupid Americans can't figure out foreign names, even a simple to pronounce one like Chinwe. And the fact that she stressed the importance of controlling information, the library, the mention of other weapons.... yeah, this is her all right. YES!

Chinwe's home = The Other Tower
Kalani had previously mentioned how well fortified that tower was, and how they had concreted up many of the windows, so when I heard the bit about the concrete that sealed the deal for me. Remember, the other tower was overrun with zombies, but was not destroyed ala our heroes' tower. The next episode with Saul, Vic, and C.J. will involve them sharing info about Samantha, Hope, Kalani, and how Zombie Bill Roberts assaulted both towers.

Stealth Tactics
The soundproofing (rugs & blankets) and intentional darkness seems to have been put up by C.J. after her tower fell, probably because she escaped and fled, only to return some days later because she was not able to find anywhere better to go. It's interesting, then, that she chose not to approach our Tower guys, even after hers bit the dust. Why?

I'm sure C.J. knew of our guy's tower. If she has so much intel on the Mallers, then how could she be ignorant of our guys when they were much closer. Especially after the Mallers assault-- how could she not know they were there? Every zombie in LA knew they were there. So why stay hidden? Did she not respect their defense tactics? Or was she afraid they were somehow in cahoots with the Mallers? She has probably lost members of her crew to Scratch & Co., so it's no surprise she is gunshy of Saul.


Whatever the case, Saul and Vic have found one hell of an ally in Chinwe. I think she is going to be more of an asset to them than a whole squad full of Burts.... Can't wait for the next one! :p

[Adventureless_Hero]

Nikvoodoo, please take in account that Kalani's last act wasn't just because he want to turn a new leaf. But also that the Maller killed the Liz stand-in and he knew who she was. Kalani was involved with the Maller.

That is an assumption. We don't know for certain that Kalani knew who the red-headed Liz stand-in was. I'm not even 100% certain Kalani knew who she was either. Perhaps the group relayed the events of the golf-course debacle to Kalani, but did he actually ever see this red-headed Liz stand-in with his own eyes?

[7oddisdead]

Your not the only one /\....not entirely sure which if us was first...but whatever..thats irrealevent.

I think this episode told us waaaay more than we're seeing at first glance..i want to go back and relisten to "r&r" before I really come down on things but..i think we shouldn't let a kalani name drop distract us from all the dirt that this epi. Uncovered.

Edit: /\/\ @ litmaster...you slid in on me hero!

[Zombiphobe]

Nice post Litmaster.

I also found it interesting that if we accept that Chinwe is CJ, she had returned to her tower when she knew ther defenses had failed and that the concreted windows turned their Tower into a death trap. Did she find the flaw in their defenses that led to the One With The Markings gaining entry?

[Litmaster]

That is an assumption. We don't know for certain that Kalani knew who the red-headed Liz stand-in was. I'm not even 100% certain Kalani knew who she was either. Perhaps the group relayed the events of the golf-course debacle to Kalani, but did he actually ever see this red-headed Liz stand-in with his own eyes?

Hannah = Shot Red-Headed Girl
Holy Crap! You know, I didn't even think of that until you guys just mentioned it, but it makes sense why Kalani would 'turn Turk' on the Mallers-- "That girl.... that was my Hannah" he said. If he meant 'that girl' being the redhead who was shot, and that was his daughter or something, then yeah-- no wonder he betrayed the Mallers and kamakazied them (this is all assuming that he was in with the Mallers in the first place, of course).

[VidjaGamez]

Oh wow, great ending to the episode!

It's obviously CJ, I was figuring it would just be someone else from the other tower and not her, but it has to be, she just has too much knowledge to not be.

But Kalani! Wow! And the whole Hannah thing. I can see it going one of two ways.

1) Maybe CJ had Kalani infiltrate the Mallers ranks? They seemed to be wandering around the outside of their strip mall a lot and there are so many in's and out's, it'd be easy to slip away to give information on the Mallers. I'm not a full believer on this thought though, just something random.

2) Kalani is indeed the rat, maybe his first pit stop was the Mallers after the plane wrecked (by pit stop I mean getting captured). The Mallers decided to send him in to the Other Tower because he isn't an original maller and it'd be believable that he's just some other survivor. Maybe CJ caught on to this at some point, but before the Mallers could carry out any type of plan and before CJ could confront Kalani the Other Tower was invaded by the "zombies". Concerning Samantha, it really seemed like Samantha could have given a rats arse about Kalani, maybe she knew what he was, maybe she didn't. He was just some pathetic new guy in the tower to her, laying in a lump on the floor. And on Hope recognizing him, I'd have to back track but I don't think he spoke around her. That and I don't think she would have been told he was a rat, I have a feeling this is information CJ kept to herself.

But the whole Hannah thing that is being brought up, it'd make sense that he was being forced by the Mallers to infiltrate both towers, the things you would do to free a loved one... Maybe that's why his last act was to stop the Mallers after watching them harm someone he cared about. What does he owe them when they just nicked off their bargain chip in getting him to do what they wanted.

We still have what he wrote in the journal to hear about, it can still reveal so much about who he was! I think he was the rat, but not in the sense that we think. I think the Mallers captured him and were forcing him to do those things. That's why CJ has a file on him.

Man I have a good feeling about my little theory on Kalani, cannot wait for March's episode.

[Anhysbys]

Hannah = Shot Red-Headed Girl
Holy Crap! You know, I didn't even think of that until you guys just mentioned it, but it makes sense why Kalani would 'turn Turk' on the Mallers-- "That girl.... that was my Hannah" he said. If he meant 'that girl' being the redhead who was shot, and that was his daughter or something, then yeah-- no wonder he betrayed the Mallers and kamakazied them (this is all assuming that he was in with the Mallers in the first place, of course).

How many people did Kalani say got off the runway, was it two? If so then the red-head, stand-in could be a relative, close friend or lover that came along with him from Hawaii. The landing at the runway like Kalani said was loud, maybe even attracting attention from more than just the zoms. The Mallers could just have easily found them just after they escaped the runway or even days after. Either one or the other, Kalani striked me as a little cowardly early on, but soon his pair seemed to drop. I wouldn't be surprised if he hid(not gonna insult him for it, he could've been looking for information on who they were and if they were hostile) while a few armed men kidnapped the only other person he had. Thus forcing him to drive a bargain with the Mallers and become their eyes and ears to get her back. It would leave a reason for Chinwe to have a log on him, and keep the blame of ratting for the Mallers mostly off him(since I like him too).

[werewolf]

the hoodie girl is Datu's ex. it was Datu that skipped out on his kids. and Datu's ex wife fallowed Datu here to collect back child support.

OK i was excited to hear that this post was read on We're Not Dead. It actual gave a smile when I needed it. Thanks.

[Litmaster]

How many people did Kalani say got off the runway, was it two?

Three. I went back and listened to the "R & R" chapter, and Kalani said that 10 flew over from Hawaii, but only 3 even made it off the tarmac after they landed at LAX (makes you wonder how his fat ass was one of them, but I digress). Then he said that they hid out and were found the next day by a group of survivors..., so:

Kalani Blackmailed by Mallers Theory
Then the three were Kalani, Hannah (presumably his daughter/niece/etc), and someone else as yet unknown. The next day the Mallers find them, then capture all three (or even kill one) and threaten Kalani that they are going to blast his daughter if he doesn't agree to go to C.J.'s tower and act as a spy for them. Perhaps they knew that her guys were keeping intel on them and figured it would be safer to send a 'mole' that wasn't part of their original group. After C.J.'s tower fell, then their incentive for keeping her alive was gone, so they just used her as a decoy for Saul, not caring what happened to her. We can be sure that the Mallers weren't behind Kalani ending up with our guys, as there was no way they could have known that Kalani was even still alive, much less imprisoned by the zombies at the arena.

Also, I gotta believe that Kalani must have kept secret the fact that he was a trained pilot, or I really doubt they would have sent such a valuable asset out on a spy mission like they did with Pippin. Speaking of Pippin:

Kalani = Pippin's Killer?
This makes perfect sense according to this blackmail scheme, for Pippin would have recognized Kalani from the Maller camp and would surely have relayed the information back to the Mallers that--surprise, surprise--Kalani was back from the dead, and living with the guys from a different tower! In order to avoid this, he blasted Pippin. Is there any evidence to this theory?
- Any evidence of Kalani's reaction to the red-headed girl's death? (aka Hannah)
- Any evidence of Kalani having direct interaction with Pippin?
- What was Kalani's alibi at the time of the shooting?

I could look this up myself, but I've got stuff to do and I'm out until tomorrow night...

[Ra1th]

You mean the Tower that's in pieces all over LA? Is he going to lead all the kings horses and all the kings men around the wreckage? ;)

who said tower? He could still lead a group!

[nikvoodoo]

who said tower? He could still lead a group!

You always argued he'd lead the Tower. There is no tower. you lose!

And I get a flawless victory. And if I had my way....a fatality.....:p

[Paolo912]

You always argued he'd lead the Tower. There is no tower. you lose!

And I get a flawless victory. And if I had my way....a fatality.....:p

My Grammar Nazism supports Mr.nik
Victory by Technicality.

[awkwardalex]

Well back to the thoughts on Kalani I relistened to Ch. 11, 12, and 13 and I found something that I didn't actually notice before. Kalani is absent through all of chapter 12. He and Datu are the only people who don't even have a part in the chapter, and we are told where Datu is, not Kalani

[nikvoodoo]

Well back to the thoughts on Kalani I relistened i...

You'll soon come to realize that Ra1th and I do this to nearly every thread at some point.

And yes. Kalani's whereabouts are not known during the Party. He was also on guard duty leading up to the party and could have been the one who contact the mallers on the CB and left it set to channel 18.

[Hellbringer]

Skittles has been stealing from the Farms.


Anyone else think so?

Only if there's rainbow trees in there for him to taste.

[Paolo912]

Only if there's rainbow trees in there for him to taste.

I give to you sir: a coupon that entitle you to receive 1 free internets

[awkwardalex]

You'll soon come to realize that Ra1th and I do this to nearly every thread at some point.

And yes. Kalani's whereabouts are not known during the Party. He was also on guard duty leading up to the party and could have been the one who contact the mallers on the CB and left it set to channel 18.

I've noticed.

Awesome! We may have are first answer! (Bill stealing food and bullets doesn't count to me.)

[Pikepaw]

Now the "Kalani is secretly a Maller" theories that never quite died are getting extra gasoline. All I can say about that ending is WTF! WTF! WTF!
Um...I don't think I have processed it yet in these hours. Kalani in the files? I don't get it! My brain can't compute it.

They were Maller relevant files, but that doesn't mean everyone in those files was strictly a Maller...but why would he be there.

Also my guess is that Chinwe is the last of the "Other Tower", still alive and not affiliated with another group. It just feels like it for one thing. Also, she seems to be living in a heavily reinforced apartment, all of her friends are dead and she has her stuff together. Seems like "Other Tower" to me

[7oddisdead]

holy crap where to begin...well for starters, i dont believe any of us looked up dirt on the chapter title...so.. <br />
<br />
http://bible.cc/revelation/2-17.htm <br />
<br />
(and in case ya don't feel like linking)...

[Grognaurd]

I have not gone back to relisten, yet. Nor have I listened to this chapter with goodvearphones...

But at the party

Kalani tells Kelly he does not drink. Kelly asks him to dance and he says that I can do. Soon Kelly tells him noobie put your hands here. He and Kelly are on the dance floor at least until Saul is brought upstairs. Because Kelly complains that Saul is on the dance floor. Presumably drunk off his ass

I forgot he was put on guard duty. So he would have access to the radio.

Kalani could be rat, but not thief. As for shooter. I find that one hard to believe. The alarm sounds before the shooting while Datu, tha maintainence guy is down by the car. While the alarm sounds Datu just hangs out by the car. When Kalani arrives they leave for the airport. Could be. I do not think Datu would be so passive with what could be a maintenance malfunction.

If Pippin knew Kalani would he say it's you? I think it would be more likely for him to say Kalani.

I admit I like Kalani. But, I try to play it down the middle and cite facts.

[Nathan.Luiz]

One idea I had that hasn't been said yet is that the thing on Kalani just got mixed up with the Mallers in the notes. With the amount of notes Chinwe had its entirely possible that when sorting them out she could have accidently put one relating to Kalani in the Maller pile.

[DeeKay86]

Epic episode, but the way it soooo long for the next chapter.

Not happy :(

[UndeadSweeper]

One idea I had that hasn't been said yet is that the thing on Kalani just got mixed up with the Mallers in the notes. With the amount of notes Chinwe had its entirely possible that when sorting them out she could have accidently put one relating to Kalani in the Maller pile.

Not possible, she said she that need time to sort the personal stuff from the stuff they need. She also a person who like order so her mixing thing up would be highly unlikely.

Also Nikivoodoo is going to be mad with me for putting gas on this fire.

[looney]

I am disappointed in you, WA forums. 7 pages of comments and not one mention of "Don't FUCK with an 11B!"? I have said that at least 3 times in my life and heard my privates say it a few hundred. Saul is my favorite character now. I don't care what else he does. Although I fully expected him to spout off the definition of an M16 verbatim, but you can't have everything I guess.

[Gobbi]

If your privates are that angry you should really go see a medical professional... Get some ointment or something...it's making you crabby

Does everyone think she's completely alone or do you think she has people hiding out...maybe they have a protocol for such a situation?
And if you were alone for all this time wouldn't you be a little happier to at least talk to someone else, or trade intel? Victor has a wealth of knowledge on the colony or he could sell you a life insurance plan. (please note: death by zombie bite is considered an act of God and will null any insurance claims

[nikvoodoo]

Not possible, she said she that need time to sort the personal stuff from the stuff they need. She also a person who like order so her mixing thing up would be highly unlikely.

Also Nikivoodoo is going to be mad with me for putting gas on this fire.

No I won't. Kalani as the rat is a popular theory. I just think everyone who thinks that is wrong.

And if you turn out to be right, I'll eat my crow. But we have to get through the initial shock that's probably going to happen next chapter where we assume Kalani was the rat. Just because the characters make that assumption, doesn't mean it's true. We assumed Samantha's daughter was dead for nearly 10 chapters. We assumed CJ was dead for the last 12-13 chapters.

[Raven]

Yes I don't think given her locked safe and "don't mess up my order" filing system that she handed over the wrong files on just so happens to be someone they knew. I believe Ra1th said that it is possible that the file was not him with the mallers but his experiences in the 3 days he was at the tower but I don't think I am giving that an endorsement.
And Habeas corpus doesn't work in a world where the bodies come back trying to eat your face as an excuse for a character not to be dead.

[Adventureless_Hero]

It is difficult to side with one theory or another on this. I just have ideas about what the possibilities could be but I don't think I'm going to lean one way or another yet.

It's possible Kalani could have been coerced into being a rat. Perhaps the Mallers sent him to CJ's Tower, he winds up nabbed by flesh biters, feels so bummed that they are going to kill his Hannah that he passes out every now and then. But when he is rescued by the other tower members he takes advantage of his first opportunity to radio the Mallers and let them know he is alive, do not kill Hannah.
Perhaps the Mallers say they will not harm her if he continues his duties as a rat at the new tower. But here is where it gets tricky. Kalani tells Angel, "that girl, that was my Hannah" as though Angel is supposed to know what girl he is talking about. Angel wasn't present at the golf course when they made the faux-Lizzie/faux-Peggs switch so he wouldn't know that girl, the red head. Neither was Kalani. How would Kalani know about the red-head executed on the golf course? He was never there to I.D. her.
Who know's who Hannah is? For all we know she could have been some girl he fell in love with at CJ's tower who got captured along with him. Then she was killed by the flesh biters, and then Samantha arrives next, never having known Kalani suffered a loss before her arrival. There is just too much to speculate on right now.
Going by what we know we can say it is likely Kalani had some shady relation with the Mallers I'm still not sold on the whole Hannah=Red-Head-at-the-golf-course idea. Heck, for all we know the girl Kalani could have been speaking of to Angel could have been the girl Riley desperately tried to save before they entered the arena. When escaping the arena Kalani may have seen her body. (SO NOT LIKELY)

[Bray]

Perhaps the reason Pippin sounded so surprised and said "it's you" to the killer is that Kalani was sent into CJ's tower to infiltrate it and maybe help get the mallers in so they can take over it, it was attacked by the marked one and then the mallers assumed Kalani was dead, so Pippin was genuinely surprised that he was alive.

[awkwardalex]

I have no idea to be honest I've never been good at theoriziing but after only getting through ch.11-14 last night I found somethings that I over looked (and may have been mentioned before)
-Kalani does not drink at the party
-He is missing all through The War
-He is ready to leave everyone at the tower who is weak/useless. (I could be grasping at straws as Angel was this way to. Sorry Ra1th.)

But the last one did get me thinking. In Fight or Flight situation Kalani chooses flight (haha) he chooses it after the war, and going to get the MRE's he's ready to abandon everyone when it gets hairy.

But he did sacrifice himself to save them.
Make with it what you will

[Nathan.Luiz]

Ah yes, missed the bit where it said she spent 15 minutes sorting them out. I feel that Kalani being the rat is just too obvious, and so I don't think it will be him. Also, as many have said already, he was never at the Golf Course for the fake-Lizzy exchange so wouldn't know whether it was Hannah who was shot. I have no idea on who Hannah really is, but it just doesn't make sense for it to be the girl at the Golf Course.

[Arkum]

Crazy ep for sure. Longest two week wait ever.

Just a few random thoughts:

I thought Hope went blind while they were running out of the other tower when it was under attack? Is that wrong? Also Micheal says "She's blind or something" I think in the last ep, or perhaps it was the one before. Just something to think about

I'm in on the theory of the Kalani name drop is a misdirection. Get us all riled up.

Anyone else think they will convince CJ to join them, at least to get Lizzie back, and being a trio?

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

who said tower? He could still lead a group!

ROFL... Angel Troll'n!

[Zombiefrog]

Fantastic episode guys keep them coming!! did we get an explanation on how she knew about guns? i am guessing she did as she used it as a way of finding out that Saul was army. Maybe the how to books?

[Bulldog711]

Have we all forgotten that Kalani entered the story at the stadium? I dont understand how he was planted into the tower as a mole if he was nearly eaten by the zombie crew at the stadium......No way he is the mole but probably played a significant role at the Other Tower

[Conf]

I flipped at this (in a good way) it seems to make perfect sense, Michael even suggested that "whoever the Rat was they are now loyal to the tower"
I'd say Kelani was pretty loyal considering the end of season 2, also lends some credence to his famous last words "that girl, that was my Hannah..."

[Adventureless_Hero]

Have we all forgotten that Kalani entered the story at the stadium? I dont understand how he was planted into the tower as a mole if he was nearly eaten by the zombie crew at the stadium......No way he is the mole but probably played a significant role at the Other Tower

It is believed that once he was rescued from the Arena he made contact with the Mallers, which would explain why the radio was set to the Maller's channel. Once there he could have been asked or ordered to resume his role as a mole at the new tower.

[UndeadSweeper]

I flipped at this (in a good way) it seems to make perfect sense, Michael even suggested that "whoever the Rat was they are now loyal to the tower"
I'd say Kelani was pretty loyal considering the end of season 2, also lends some credence to his famous last words "that girl, that was my Hannah..."

Kalani did become loyal have the event ending season 2. But someone correct me on this if I'm wrong. Kalani was captured by the Maller after he landed with Hannah and the other. Then forced to work for the Maller to get the other tower (Remember that Maller had been look for a new place). But while there the other tower was over run by the zombies maybe because "the man in the suit" paid them a visit (as stated by Sam I believe). This is how Kalani and Sam were captured and taken to the Arena. That how he end up there.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Kalani did become loyal have the event ending season 2. But someone correct me on this if I'm wrong. Kalani was captured by the Maller after he landed with Hannah and the other. Then forced to work for the Maller to get the other tower (Remember that Maller had been look for a new place). But while there the other tower was over run by the zombies maybe because "the man in the suit" paid them a visit (as stated by Sam I believe). This is how Kalani and Sam were captured and taken to the Arena. That how he end up there.

That in red is conjecture. We don't have evidence yet that it has occurred but it can't be entirely dis proven. I believe that Samantha and Kalani arrived at the Arena at different times. Kalani had been there longer than she had (which is why she wholly believed the flesh-biters would take him first).

[Nathan.Luiz]

That in red is conjecture. We don't have evidence yet that it has occurred but it can't be entirely dis proven. I believe that Samantha and Kalani arrived at the Arena at different times. Kalani had been there longer than she had (which is why she wholly believed the flesh-biters would take him first).

Yep, Samantha says in Chapter 10-1 at 10:39 that Kalani was there first.

[Zombiphobe]

I am still 100% onboard with the Kalani-Rat theory.

If the file Victor found was merely Kalani's accounting some encounter with the Mallers, I don't think Saul would have been so worked up. Kalani had said he was from the Other Tower and it would not be shocking to find information supporting that. It would be shocking to find a file classifying him as one of the Mallers.

While the cliff-hanger does rile us all up, I don't think the resolution will simply clear him of Maller involvement. Instead I think we will learn more about why he was mixed up with the Mallers in the first place and that perhaps his motives were more honorable that it would first appear. I think it is then that we will hear more about who Hannah is, and hopefully substantiate that theory as well.

[Hellbringer]

I am disappointed in you, WA forums. 7 pages of comments and not one mention of "Don't FUCK with an 11B!"? I have said that at least 3 times in my life and heard my privates say it a few hundred. Saul is my favorite character now. I don't care what else he does. Although I fully expected him to spout off the definition of an M16 verbatim, but you can't have everything I guess.



I wanted him to say something like, "fine, woman. My M16A2 is a 5.56mm lightweight rifle, magazine fed, gas powered, air cooled...blah, blah, blah. Yea happy, lady?"

[Litmaster]

I am disappointed in you, WA forums. 7 pages of comments and not one mention of "Don't FUCK with an 11B!"? I have said that at least 3 times in my life and heard my privates say it a few hundred. Saul is my favorite character now. I don't care what else he does. Although I fully expected him to spout off the definition of an M16 verbatim, but you can't have everything I guess.

No mention either of the comedy routine when Saul & Vic got defensive about being thought of as a gay couple.

That was friggin' hilarious! :D

[Grognaurd]

I wanted him to say something like, "fine, woman. My M16A2 is a 5.56mm lightweight rifle, magazine fed, gas powered, air cooled...blah, blah, blah. Yea happy, lady?"

This is my rifle this is my gun. This is for killing this ones...

[7oddisdead]

No mention either of the comedy routine when Saul & Vic got defensive about being thought of as a gay couple.

That was friggin' hilarious! :D


Agreed..was funny..and victors "kinky" line a lil after that...but unfortunately they brought a dead horse in for the last 2 minutes....so everybody's been beating on that for the last six pages..

[Mark_survivor]

Hey guys, as everyone is saying that episode was wow, im so pissed :P because we have to wait for about 3 weeks ugh!
work is gonna be boring :(
but yea you guys dont know how much i think about kalani's rat theory after this, at first i kinda felt he was the rat, then i thought
it was steven but now, i think it is kalani, here are my theories.

Kalani:

before this episode people had been saying that kalani was an spy from the mallers sent to the tower, because they might have someone close to kalani as a hostage.
i still think that might be true

ive been thinking maybe kalani was with the mallers sometime early maybe wondering around, or trying to destroy the other tower or something, im thinking that maybe kalani was
captured by the zombies while he was with scratch and some other mallers, maybe kalani and scratch do have some type of connection, because what if scratch saw that kalani
was captured and taken to the arena? another thing, why did the mallers attacked the arena? i dont think they never gave an specific reason, just that they wanna destroy it,
but what if the real reason was the they knew kalani was taken there, and maybe they thought he was turned or eaten or something, and they wanted some kind of revenge? i kinda think
it makes a lil sense, but thats just my opinion, why else will they want to destroy the arena? thats part of my theory

and then i was thinking kalani and sam were always talking in the room before datu was captured, thats what samantha mentioned in the purgatory chapter, but after datu was there
he started acting sick and stuff i guess cause he knew he was next, but im thinking, kalani and sam had been there for weeks, samantha said she was there for 20 days
and kalani was there before her, so lets guess kalani was there for 25 days, so for those days kalani and samantha got to know each other, and kalani had the opportunity to
listen to samanthas story of the other tower, what happened and stuff, because as everyone is saying, if kalani is really a member of the other tower, why didnt samantha say anything about
him? why didnt he say anything about hope when he saw her and stuff? im thinking kalani decided to steal her story, to become more closer to the members of the tower with michael and them,

also, skittles recognize kalani but he doesnt remember, it wasnt from the other tower, because if kalani was actually from that tower, he would have recognize him as well, but kalani said that
he didnt know him, so you guy know how skittles is he hides and sees from far, maybe he saw kalani with the mallers, because he did mention something about "seeing bad people" before he
met angel, riley and datu, so im guessing skittles saw him, but they didnt thats why it was another clue.

and now about yesterday's chapter, i was thinking the same thing people are thinking, maybe the file they saw about kalani was because he was a member, but chunwe or however you spell her name
specifically gave saul and victor the files of information about the mallers, and i came up with a new thought about maybe kalani being one of the guys who saw the mallers, and wrote stuff about them,
but its true why did saul got all shock? im really gonna go with the theory that kalani is part of the mallers, maybe a prisioner, but still he worked for them, because after kalani was rescued and
went in the tower, the day of the party he contacted the mallers, i mean i think it fits, who else will do it? i think kalani reported to the mallers he was still alive and the plan with the tower,

and how kalani became loyal to them, i think it has to do with him seeing the mallers almost killed him by burning the tower, and by letting him there, also maybe he kinda felt bad
because he saw the dead of tommy, and how angel almost gave his life for kalani, and stuff like that,
but im thinking kalani is really the rat, and the file will say more information about him, how they got him or something, and maybe about hannah

gosh i never write so much stuff in one day :p not even in school, gotta love the show, thanks KC!!!!

[looney]

I wanted him to say something like, "fine, woman. My M16A2 is a 5.56mm lightweight rifle, magazine fed, gas powered, air cooled...blah, blah, blah. Yea happy, lady?"

After 14 weeks of having a drill get in your shit if you didn't know the definition, then being that drill getting in peoples' shit because they don't know the definition, I don't think I'll ever forget it verbatim. Between the weapon talk and two dudes becoming almost a gay couple (you know, without the sex), this episode reminded me of work way more than any other episode. I loved it. The Kalani stuff was interesting, I can't wait to see how it turns out, but I really like the way KC writes dialogue to seem like Saul is a real 11B who is probably still an E-4 because he doesn't want the responsibility of being a leader, but should be a leader. He reminds me of a guy I was deployed with in 2004, all the way down to the fact that he does whatever he wants to do even if an NCO tells him to knock it off.

[VidjaGamez]

Have we all forgotten that Kalani entered the story at the stadium? I dont understand how he was planted into the tower as a mole if he was nearly eaten by the zombie crew at the stadium......No way he is the mole but probably played a significant role at the Other Tower

But, if the theory is true that he was originally captured by Mallers and Hannah is being held hostage. Kalani being forced to work for the Mallers as a "rat". He would have wanted to know if Hannah was okay after being rescued from the Stadium and what he could do moving forward in order to free her from their clutches. Hence why someone killed Pippin randomly, spoke to the Mallers on the radio, etc.

[Gobbi]

So Kilani might be the last person in LA to know how to fly a plane/helicopter. As we saw with the movie Day of the Dead; the pilot actually is the most valuable person around. In the movie the commander can scream and threaten all he wants but he's forced to comply to the whims of the pilot.

If you were Durai or Scratch; would you place someone with that niche expertise (and ability to train others) in harms way as bait/mole? And I know I posted this back before... Could the body found by scratch at the end of season 2 be Kilani?

[Colostome boy]

Well I guess I misunderstood the ending. My understanding was that the files she showed them were records of people who passed through and when, and that she had a record of kalani passing through the area sometime after the end of season 2.

[nikvoodoo]

Well I guess I misunderstood the ending. My understanding was that the files she showed them were records of people who passed through and when, and that she had a record of kalani passing through the area sometime after the end of season 2.

The first document Chinwe read was the most recent Maller activity in the area which was heading up to destroy the Arena on 110. The stuff she pulled later after sifting through the piles of stuff was all notes on all Maller activity she had which also happened to contain information on Kalani.

Not sure if anyone posed this thought before and if you have stand up and take credit: What if Kalani was a maller, had next to nothing to do with the other tower, but when he was captured he stole Samantha's story decided to start anew at the Tower? I know that opens a cluster of conflicting information, but that might be a way for the story to go as well. I seem to only see people say he was only a maller or he was never a maller. What if it's a healthy combination of both?

[UndeadSweeper]

Maybe we should work backward to find out who the mole is?

Who do we know isn't the rat?

What the fact we have that we can put person into the clues we have?

The Rat know:

The Maller radio channel
Pippen was sent by Maller
Are we sure that Maller knew of the other tower?

[Adventureless_Hero]

So Kilani might be the last person in LA to know how to fly a plane/helicopter. As we saw with the movie Day of the Dead; the pilot actually is the most valuable person around. In the movie the commander can scream and threaten all he wants but he's forced to comply to the whims of the pilot.

If you were Durai or Scratch; would you place someone with that niche expertise (and ability to train others) in harms way as bait/mole? And I know I posted this back before... Could the body found by scratch at the end of season 2 be Kilani?

I don't think pilots are that uncommon these days. I have more than one friend who fly for recreation. But assuming Durai and/or Scratch knew Kalani was a pilot and forced him to be a rat, I doubt they cared much for his pilot skills considering they didn't seem all that interested in planes/helicopters. Otherwise wouldn't the Tower have not found diddly squat?

I'm leaning more towards Kalani being forced to act as a rat. I doubt Durai/Scratch cared much that he was a pilot.

[Tandem25]

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this (or if it matters much) but I'd guess that Chinwe isn't former military. When reading her journal entry she uses 1:00pm instead of 1300. I just thought was worth mentioning.

Great episode! Can't wait till March 5th!

[looney]

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this (or if it matters much) but I'd guess that Chinwe isn't former military. When reading her journal entry she uses 1:00pm instead of 1300. I just thought was worth mentioning.

To be fair, I am military and I usually don't say 1300. If I'm talking to my soldiers, I make them repeat the times I say back, so I have to use military time, but if I'm talking to other drill sergeants or other people who have been in the Army for more than a day, I'll usually use whatever you call time that isn't military time i.e. 1:30 p.m. instead of 1330. But I don't think she's former military anyway. I have a feeling she was an Army/Marine brat or she dug into the technical manuals she had everywhere to learn the definition of an M16.

[reaper239]

To be fair, I am military and I usually don't say 1300. If I'm talking to my soldiers, I make them repeat the times I say back, so I have to use military time, but if I'm talking to other drill sergeants or other people who have been in the Army for more than a day, I'll usually use whatever you call time that isn't military time i.e. 1:30 p.m. instead of 1330. But I don't think she's former military anyway. I have a feeling she was an Army/Marine brat or she dug into the technical manuals she had everywhere to learn the definition of an M16.

likewise, i'm not in the military, but i say 1300 instead of 1 pm. i work around a lot of military and for paperwork and whatnot everyone the 24 hour clock, so that's how i've gotten used to saying it, but i know people who have relatively no experience with the military but still use the 24 hour clock.

[Tandem25]

I'm not in the military either but we strictly use it for notes and documentation at work. I was just pointing out that she uses 1:30pm in her notes which leads me to believe that she wasn't military or in the medical profession.

[Raven]

Same here my job we use military time but I think given her use a baton to take out Saul who I assume if sufficiently larger than her I still say LAPD or the like

[Tandem25]

Same here my job we use military time but I think given her use a baton to take out Saul who I assume if sufficiently larger than her I still say LAPD or the like

I missed your LAPD comment. That makes sense. Either way... I like her.

And the LAPD should know all about having to sound proof a room......

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

The thing with Chinwe asking about Zeroing the rifle isn't normally just a military thing but it does indicate someone with prior weapons training. You need target practice to do so and I'm not really sure i'd be wasting ammo trying to Zero my rifle by some info in a book. Windage/elevation.. that's crap I still have problems with. I normally say fugg it and call it good as long as I'm hitting center mass. I can care less if my groupings are this or that close. 10 holes in a living person's chest is 10 holes they didn't have before. I'm starting to have flashbacks of Post briefings now (we had to do those when the flight chief showed up at our post. Sucked to go over the nomenclature every night)
Anyway, I digress... "Training" is what Chinwe has. A lot of people talk about her having a baton; the real thing is she knew how to use it, she knew how to defend herself and she had a pretty damn good rear naked choke on Saul. This chick is small enough to hide under a car after all. Training.
Not something you learn from a book.

2400 clock vs what ere'body else uses:
Europeans in 2400 clock speak as are most everyone BUT we Yanks (what else is new). Sky Tv advertises its shows with the 2400 hour clock. So, you'll see "Being Human" on BBC at 1700 friday.

Nik theorized that Kalani.. ah why paraphrase when I can cut and paste?

"Not sure if anyone posed this thought before and if you have stand up and take credit: What if Kalani was a maller, had next to nothing to do with the other tower, but when he was captured he stole Samantha's story decided to start anew at the Tower? I know that opens a cluster of conflicting information, but that might be a way for the story to go as well. I seem to only see people say he was only a maller or he was never a maller. What if it's a healthy combination of both?"

My answer:
That would totally disregard his story on Hawaii wouldn't it?
My guess is that the mallers started taking people after the "War". They lost a ton of people plus they wouldn't have tried to take the building with all the slaves. No room. Plus Durai was all Mr. Nice Guy.
They had to have given the mall the heave ho shortly after that and found another spot. Something larger and safe enough to plan, build, continue looting and capture survivors. Kalani was the last of a group prior to Sam being taken.
I think his relationship with them is far more.. was far more complex. The name drop at the end of the episode was a KC Juke!

[Bulldog711]

She did say she had gelp...who knows the kinds of backgrounds her people had.....but it is very interesting to see how much more secure this location is than the tower.....this also raises another question, how did her people die that helped her? This location seems so secure and there is no mention of any sort of battle-scars from a large battle (ummmm the tower was messed up big time after just a couple of mini-battles)....... this back story about Chinwe and her people is going to be deeper than we all expect!

[Nathan.Luiz]

My answer:
That would totally disregard his story on Hawaii wouldn't it?


I was thinking this, but when we first meet him in the arena in Chapter 10-1, before he even says anything, Samantha refers to him as a "Plump Hawaiian", which I think backs up the Hawaii part of his story.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I was thinking this, but when we first meet him in the arena in Chapter 10-1, before he even says anything, Samantha refers to him as a "Plump Hawaiian", which I think backs up the Hawaii part of his story.

That is an awesome point! I can't believe I overlooked that. Rep to you!

But I think this can only mean that Kalani:
-was telling the truth about coming from Hawaii, and may have been coherced into being a rat upon arrival in L.A.
-was never a rat.
-told the same lie to the both Tower groups.

O_o

[Raven]

Didn't Victor also say "he" was fat? It is never described that she removed the hoodie maybe she is wearing a vest underneath? Along with the fact that she didn't want anyone to know she was a woman all points to the fact that she is alone now. If she was a police officer at time of the inital riots and outbreak it would make sense that she gathered a large group of survivors quickly and reinforced a building, many hands makes light work and all that. Remembering that Saul, Micheal and Angel left the city went to base and then headed back and there was no one left several hours later. We haven't seen or heard much of what happened in the first few hours of the outbreak and if we are ever going to learn about Ground Zero and such I think so one keeping such careful records would be a great person to start piecing the clues together.

[7oddisdead]

I'm gonna throw thus one in out of left field....i haven't even given it serious thought yet...so tear into it as you see fit...

chinwe worked at the prison, could explain baton knowledge, gun knowledge, hardass character,...etc...a bit far fetched I agree...but..something to think about

[Grognaurd]

How about this spin?

She worked at the prison and used her stealth and hiding to be the Thief, Assassin and Rat. Wel, maybe not.

In all seriousness, she has to be at least aware of The Tower. It is more than 10 stories tall and lit up like a christmass tree before the mallers first attack. When they do attack, that is a lot of noise to miss and a lot of movement to miss for someone keeping tabs on the Mallers.

[7oddisdead]

I've been thinking similar for a while now...ill bet my beard that her attitude changes next time we hear from her...by this I mean, she does now exactly who Saul is....and the first part of the little spackle was a ruse...

Also someone mentioned no signs of a fight at the other tower...there was..saul mentions one wall being poorly constructed with concrete seeping out the edges...likely w cj(chinwe) fix up job...

[nikvoodoo]

My answer:
That would totally disregard his story on Hawaii wouldn't it?
My guess is that the mallers started taking people after the "War". They lost a ton of people plus they wouldn't have tried to take the building with all the slaves. No room. Plus Durai was all Mr. Nice Guy.
They had to have given the mall the heave ho shortly after that and found another spot. Something larger and safe enough to plan, build, continue looting and capture survivors. Kalani was the last of a group prior to Sam being taken.
I think his relationship with them is far more.. was far more complex. The name drop at the end of the episode was a KC Juke!

I was spitballing but you're right. And in my head I meant more along the lines Kalani was captured and forced to become a maller goon. That's certainly not how it came out though.

[Litmaster]

To be fair, I am military and I usually don't say 1300. If I'm talking to my soldiers, I make them repeat the times I say back, so I have to use military time, but if I'm talking to other drill sergeants or other people who have been in the Army for more than a day, I'll usually use whatever you call time that isn't military time i.e. 1:30 p.m. instead of 1330. But I don't think she's former military anyway. I have a feeling she was an Army/Marine brat or she dug into the technical manuals she had everywhere to learn the definition of an M16.

Assming that she is C.J., then she was with Sean (Shawn?), the guy who scooped up Hope after she jumped from the window and ended up being Marcus's #2 down in the colony. He was former millitary, I think. But aside from him, any number of people from that tower could have trained her on the M-16. And agreed, Looney... I don't think she was millitary herself.

[Litmaster]

Question: How did the dead guy at the (toppled) Tower come up with the note in his pocket that has the address of one of Chinwe's 'farms'???

Option A: He was a Maller who either found or was informed about the existence of this farm by some other Mallers.
Option B: He was the last of Chinwe's crew, who stopped off to scavenge on the way to pick up oranges.
Option C: He was a random roamer who just lucked across the place.

Well?

[Grognaurd]

At The Other Tower, CJ may have implemented a hunker down strategy, but her Charisma is worse than Michaels. Once they take casualties in the convoy / Scavenger, Kalani says that people started leaving. When the zombies hit The Other Tower very few remain. A group counter attacks the Arena to free Kalani and Samantha. This is a bust resulting in many of them being killed in view of Samantha. Many of the slaves held by the mallers may have been associated with The Other Tower

[7oddisdead]

At The Other Tower, CJ may have implemented a hunker down strategy, but her Charisma is worse than Michaels. Once they take casualties in the convoy / Scavenger, Kalani says that people started leaving. When the zombies hit The Other Tower very few remain. A group counter attacks the Arena to free Kalani and Samantha. This is a bust resulting in many of them being killed in view of Samantha. Many of the slaves held by the mallers may have been associated with The Other Tower

And that last bit is the part that makes me question if she's given up all hope or not...if she saw the convoy going to the arena, surely she saw the trailer full of slaves...just an observation.

[Grognaurd]

Meh. Work is a drag and I need an ego boost. So...

Posted December 23rd in the VooDoo Lounge for Season 3

[QUOTE=Arthur LaMarche;31971]

...Truncated

CJ of the other tower will surface.

Truncated...

QUOTE]

[Adventureless_Hero]

Question: How did the dead guy at the (toppled) Tower come up with the note in his pocket that has the address of one of Chinwe's 'farms'???

Option A: He was a Maller who either found or was informed about the existence of this farm by some other Mallers.
Option B: He was the last of Chinwe's crew, who stopped off to scavenge on the way to pick up oranges.
Option C: He was a random roamer who just lucked across the place.

Well?

That is a good question! It could be that the Mallers, in all their scavenging, stumbled across some of these farms and were stealing from them, or using them for provisions on their scavenging missions. It could be that they new the location of more than one farm and kept them written down for occasions where they might get lost. Chinwe did ask Victor and Saul, "were you the one stealing from my farm" but the way she said it made me think that it has been an ongoing problem. I thought of Skittles as a culprit too. But that could be one explanation as to why that corpse had a paper with the farm address.

I don't think it is likely he was a friend of Chinwe's, or at least he hadn't been her friend for a while. He was freshly turned and Chinwe seemed very aware that she was alone and appeared to be alone for quite sometime. It could be that the corpse was a one time friend and member of her tower who then defected to the Mallers. But I'm not sure if the Mallers are accepting new recruits without having said recruits spill the beans on their previous locales.

[Nathan.Luiz]

Question: How did the dead guy at the (toppled) Tower come up with the note in his pocket that has the address of one of Chinwe's 'farms'???

Option A: He was a Maller who either found or was informed about the existence of this farm by some other Mallers.
Option B: He was the last of Chinwe's crew, who stopped off to scavenge on the way to pick up oranges.
Option C: He was a random roamer who just lucked across the place.

Well?

I would presume this was who Chinwe was referencing when she asked whether Saul and Victor were the ones stealing from the farm. Whether they were a Maller or just a survivor remains to be seen.

[nikvoodoo]

The only question I'd have regarding the dude with the address being a maller.....if it was actually the Mallers, why wouldn't they have just swept through and stolen everything in that garden/farm? It could be that they were trying to escape the scene rapidly, but with the slow pace they seemed to be surveying the wreckage in the post credit sequence in Chapter 24 it doesn't seem like they'd pass up the opportunity for fresh food.

Then again....I'm trying to assign logic to one of the most irrational groups in the series.....

[Adventureless_Hero]

I thought about that too as I was posting my previous message. One of the few ideas I came up with was that Scratch was leading the group. She may have had her priorities fixed on getting revenge on Peggs. It was pretty obvious that Durai had no idea about her little Tower demolition pit stop. It could be that if the corpse with the farm address was a Maller he either didn't tell anybody else he had discovered it or he did and Scratch said, "Fuck fruits and vegetables. I want blood! The bitch must pay!"

Also, I had a notion about the corpse being a former CJ's Tower member who defected to the Maller team, 3 posts earlier. (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?2893-Chapter-26-quot-Who-Overcomes-quot-Part-3&p=34608&viewfull=1#post34608)

[Conf]

lots of great points but something I feel like I need to say

I was so SO sad when burt was not under that hoodie

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Damn you guys! I was JUST about to post the whole "dude with address" thing and BAM!
SOOOOO, he/it couldn't have been a maller. Like somone said before, they'd have wiped that spot clean as hell. I'm thinking he/it came with some cleaners while the Mallers backtracked. They popped him/it and since he was infected, didn't bother with the body.
He/it has to be one of her old crew. Maybe they'll bring it up when she asks "How the hell did you find me anyway?" and they'll take her back to view the body.

The theory about Chinwe being Corrections is a sound one. I think that's why there were so many files on them.
Anyone think that Chenwe is back at Tower 1?

[Adventureless_Hero]

Anyone think that Chenwe is back at Tower 1?

I do. After it was over run I think she pulled back for some time and then moved back in with a handful of other occupants. Over the course of time she then lost those companions too, whether it was to Mallers or Flesh-Biters or both. The only reason I say this is because Kalani's description of CJ's Tower he spoke of matches closely to that of the one Saul described.

My curiosity is slightly aroused by Victor wanting to say something when they were passing through Chinwe's building. He seemed to want to say something he noticed, but then said nevermind. What the hell was he going to say? "Check it out, there is Mr. Whiskers." or "Hey Saul, I just want to let you know...I love you man." WTF was he going to say?!

[Raven]

I think he was thinking the same thing we are all thinking. That hey Kalani spoke about another apartment building and this matches what we heard. Remember every time he tries to same something Saul cuts it off at the pass. IE blindfolds and "Why do I even bother?"

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I think that they're back there because of all the work they did previously. Sure it turned into a deathtrap, but it was still secure. Why give up on all that hard work when you can return and fix the security issues/holes with minimun effort?

[reaper239]

The only question I'd have regarding the dude with the address being a maller.....if it was actually the Mallers, why wouldn't they have just swept through and stolen everything in that garden/farm? It could be that they were trying to escape the scene rapidly, but with the slow pace they seemed to be surveying the wreckage in the post credit sequence in Chapter 24 it doesn't seem like they'd pass up the opportunity for fresh food.

Then again....I'm trying to assign logic to one of the most irrational groups in the series.....

predictable and illogical are not mutually exclusive. for instance: we may not see the logic in everything the mallers do, but we can easily infer what their reactions would be in any given situation by drawing on their past behavior. put simply, as a group, they pillage and destroy everywhere they go. based on this we can assume that the mallers as a whole did not know of the farms existence, but an individual maller of a different standard may well have discovered it but kept it to himself.

[7oddisdead]

I think he was thinking the same thing we are all thinking. That hey Kalani spoke about another apartment building and this matches what we heard. Remember every time he tries to same something Saul cuts it off at the pass. IE blindfolds and "Why do I even bother?"

Victor probly would have figured it out before Saul...as he should have more knowledge of the layout and placement of the other tower than Saul...assuming he and Sean talked at the colony..but that's the gist I got from that scene..and later when he said he was "admiring"...

[Grognaurd]

The give away line is that she says she had help. It seems unlikely that after losing The Other Tower and it's residents she was able to find another tower and people to set up Another Other Tower

[ComicBookMax]

I don't think that she is from the other tower, but I can't wait to hear what that file says about Kalani. I can't wait to find out what he was to the mallers, where did he fit in their ranks?

[StPaulCameraGuy]

I would dispute the fact that Kalani was a maller. Chen Huey gives Saul and Victor "...a short stack..." of files on "...all the places, times and interactions with anyone from there." Victor takes note of names of people who had had contact with the mallers and Chen Huey says, "Never mind that, they're all dead now." I'm not saying definitively that Kalani [I]wasn't[I] a maller, but all you can prove from this exchange is that Chen Huey knew Kalani and that he had an interaction with the mallers at some point in the past. I think that this will lead to some interesting exposition on Chen Huey's part and the mutual acquaintance will help Saul and Victor bond with Chen Huey, but I don't think Kalani was a maller

[Adventureless_Hero]

I would dispute the fact that Kalani was a maller. Chen Huey gives Saul and Victor "...a short stack..." of files on "...all the places, times and interactions with anyone from there." Victor takes note of names of people who had had contact with the mallers and Chen Huey says, "Never mind that, they're all dead now." I'm not saying definitively that Kalani wasn't a maller, but all you can prove from this exchange is that Chen Huey knew Kalani and that he had an interaction with the mallers at some point in the past. I think that this will lead to some interesting exposition on Chen Huey's part and the mutual acquaintance will help Saul and Victor bond with Chen Huey, but I don't think Kalani was a maller

I had the same idea too, and I hope it proves to be correct, but you have to admit this as well: if Kalani has a file on him because he had an exchange with the Mallers, it is quite possible that unbeknownst to Chenwe (proper spelling) that Kalani's exchange with the Mallers is what led to his working for them, whether it be voluntarily or involuntarily through coercion or blackmail. So even if Chenwe says, "Oh yeah, he ran into the Mallers on such and such date." There may be something in Kalani's secret journal, in Hope's backpack, that reads, "Hey guys, when I was back at CJ's tower, I totally ran into the Easter Bay douche bags and they kidnapped my GF Hannah and forced me to suck ass as a rat. I'm sorry."

It's a possibility, but I hope not. I was banking on Kelly being the rat.

[Grognaurd]

I will have to go back and relisten. This is what falls out of the wither cortex where my brain should be...

She gives Kalani a stack. Kalani says wow, these have names and everything. She says do not bother with them they are all dead.

Suposition:
If kalani has a stack of stuff that could be help Saul find Lizzy, Saul will not be standing there, sucking his thumb. It would be more in character for him to rip them out of Kalani's hands. The dead section is not as important to Saul so that is left with Kalani who probably doesn't even know what Lizzy looks like.

KC wants to connect CJ for plot purposes. The drama of Saul and hoodie is high and entertaining. Right now, they are boarderline civil. But, there has to be something to link them and disarm the mistrust and hostiity. The Three of them are not going to pick up Mr. Whiskers and a fourth person and stroll down LA's Movie-star-gold-star sidewalk.

Victor can bounce Hope, Sean and red shirt of off CJ. The epiffany that not every body being dead will eliviate some of her self-pitty. As Burt told Michael, I'd call you a whaaaambulence but we do not have time. Victor knows Kalani through Our Tower. But, I do not think he has a clue to link Kalani to the second tower. He knows Hope and most likely her story about fleeing overrun tower. Victor is recon / scavenger for the colony and probably had a lot of contact with Sean. Saul knows Kalani, Samantha and The Other Tower. But most likely knows nothing about Hope and certainly not Sean.

KC has more talent in the tip of his finger than most of us old school dungeon masters.

YOu walk into a bar...
You meet the fighter, thief and cleric over a beer and then you all stroll out the best of friends and put your very life in the hands of someone you just met. I am pretty damn sure this is familiar with most of you. If you can not visualize it, put down the pen and paper and boot up your computer and meet by the Dungeon Stone. 8-).

[Pandora]

I would dispute the fact that Kalani was a maller. Chen Huey gives Saul and Victor "...a short stack..." of files on "...all the places, times and interactions with anyone from there." Victor takes note of names of people who had had contact with the mallers and Chen Huey says, "Never mind that, they're all dead now." I'm not saying definitively that Kalani [I]wasn't[I] a maller, but all you can prove from this exchange is that Chen Huey knew Kalani and that he had an interaction with the mallers at some point in the past. I think that this will lead to some interesting exposition on Chen Huey's part and the mutual acquaintance will help Saul and Victor bond with Chen Huey, but I don't think Kalani was a maller

I dont think Kalani was a criminal...I cant help thinkin he joined them because they got a hold of his Hannah (i am still going with her being 'No Response' chptr 20-3). Hey...you think Victor was trying to remind Saul of the fact there were TWO people at the gate with the apples and oranges? Twice he said 'Saul' then second time he was troubled and just said 'nevermind'

[Pandora]

That is a good question! It could be that the Mallers, in all their scavenging, stumbled across some of these farms and were stealing from them, or using them for provisions on their scavenging missions. It could be that they new the location of more than one farm and kept them written down for occasions where they might get lost. Chinwe did ask Victor and Saul, "were you the one stealing from my farm" but the way she said it made me think that it has been an ongoing problem. I thought of Skittles as a culprit too. But that could be one explanation as to why that corpse had a paper with the farm address.

I don't think it is likely he was a friend of Chinwe's, or at least he hadn't been her friend for a while. He was freshly turned and Chinwe seemed very aware that she was alone and appeared to be alone for quite sometime. It could be that the corpse was a one time friend and member of her tower who then defected to the Mallers. But I'm not sure if the Mallers are accepting new recruits without having said recruits spill the beans on their previous locales.

Chinwe is totally NOT alone! when Saul and Victor were watching the security gate being reset by her they were talking about TWO people. AND the chapter before Chinwe was on walkie talkie with some guy....'I lost him..what? Wait' something like that then she gets the drop on Saul. I think the guy hit Saul and ducked back under the car...Chinwe came out to shoot him.

Funny Chinwe calls the Mallers animals for killing her friend over Chips and soda when she was gonna kill Saul over apples and oranges!

[Pandora]

I think Burt is still alive!! Saul didnt find him...Scratch took him (put him with the old man...she has ALWAYS called Burt 'Old Man') AND I bet Burt helps Lizzy and gets his gun back! Scratch was nice enough to go find it for him!

[Adventureless_Hero]

LOL, yeah, that last bit you posted is a pretty funny point. <br />
<br />
But in regards to Chinwe definitely not being alone, I don't think that can be said with certainty. That portion you quoted where you...

[Pandora]

That is an awesome point! I can't believe I overlooked that. Rep to you!


But I think this can only mean that Kalani:
-was telling the truth about coming from Hawaii, and may have been coherced into being a rat upon arrival in L.A.
-was never a rat.
-told the same lie to the both Tower groups.

O_o


He is definitely from Hawaii. When Burt was out looking for a chopper they saw the big 'Hawaiian airliner crashed'

[Adventureless_Hero]

He is definitely from Hawaii. When Burt was out looking for a chopper they saw the big 'Hawaiian airliner crashed'

Pippin had a passport.
Bill only used a shotgun to fight off the Mallers during the war when he had a whole arsenal's ammo locked in his room.
Basically, I'm saying the crashed Hawaiian airliner can be used as evidence to support Kalani's back story, but not prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt. Even so, if he is from Hawaii, which I am pretty sure he is, that wouldn't prevent him from being forced to do the Maller's dirty work.

[Pandora]

Yah I think Randy is from pumping station too. I think he was attacked and gave his life in escape from pumping station...That is why Michael doesnt want to talk about it. They might find something...

[Cabbage Patch]

Could it have been Randy's body on which Victor found the slip with the location of the garden? If he was from the Other Tower he might have known about the garden. We know he had been turned and...

[Pandora]

this is chapter 26part 3...I doubt anyone not wanting spoilers would be reading this thread!

what is every-ones favorite chapter?

[Pandora]

Randy would have been turned for awhile...if he turned fast like most of the bitten. As Michael, Pegs, Kelley went to Colony and everything in the meantime. WHAT IF...Randy is a cool ZOMBIE? Nice, and helped Michael? lol..no telling with this story huh?

[abayarts]

it would be crazy if Chinwe was from Fort Irwin. The connection that the story needs to have Saul and Victor reunite with the rest of the Tower Survivors.

[Gobbi]

Kilani could have just as easily seen the downed Hawaian airliner and tied that into his story. Did Kilani call Chinwei "CJ" first or did Samantha? If Samantha or anyone else who was from the "other tower" told Kilani the story maybe he misheard Chinwei name. If Kilani stole the story he could have misheard Chinwei name and decided to call her "CJ". So if somehow other survivors were found he could have deniability ("must be another tower with some CJ person)
2) Chinwei is totally not alone, my money is on them being confronted when Saul & Victor are about to leave the building.
3) not only is Burt alive, but I think the messed up body is Kilani. Hence Scratchs suprise at seeing the messed up body. That means Angel could be alive. My understanding is that the front face of the tower collapsed, so part of the tower is still standing. Then Angel could have stayed on the building and repelled after the dust settled. But where would he go? Colony? Find skittles (back to the base?) Maybe found by Chinwei and being held in a makeshift prison (where Saul and Victor will soon meet up with him)

[Grognaurd]

She was with someone else. NI really must lsten a second time. N

Pumping Station. Michael comments on how fresh the kills are.

The people in the station survived for a couple of months. In the station or somewhere else. The other tower fell a couple of weeks before. So, did they show up when the water shutoff? Two to three weeks before? Two months before.

If they were already there, the zombies show up and someone shuts the water down. Sabotage by zombies? Collateral damage from the zombies. A nefarious group of survivors saving it for themselves or intentionally screwing everyone else over. Did the zombies randomly or on purpose.? On purpose shows control and intent.

Randy is in much better condition than the other zombies.Michael easily recognizes Randy and there is enough of Randy in the zombie to recognizes his name. Randy does not kill Tanya. A strong argument can be made that he is trying to protect her. Yea, dragging is not really care, but he is partially a zombie so I will cut him some slack.

After that exchange, the zombies make no intent to attack the tower. Nor do they disperse. I am still a fan of my different zombie factions. Yes, the first escape car gets over run by zombies. But this is well into the battle which would most certainly draw the attention of other zombies in the area.

The mallers lost a lot of slaves to the ambush. Some of those slaves were likely to be the other tower survivors. They could have the address as a rally point and be recently turned. I do not think the one with note is Randy. We need to have another Randy -Michael interaction to close the story arc. If Randy is dead, it creates a lose end. We will never be sure that it was Randy. I think KC has made the story very tight. He was a fan of Lost. I never saw any episodes, but I know enough pop culture to remember that their seemed to be a lot of fan outrage because of unanswered questions. I think I remember 7odd comparing this to Lost.

Good story tellers improve on the works of others.

There are really only so many stories. The variety is actually just variation on a theme. Romeo and Julliet / West side story. Lot and saddom or Noah or Gilgamesh and a flood.

Ugh, it has been a long work week. I am sure I will need to clean this post up. But to tired too much to proof read before posting

[Pandora]

That was amazing!!!!!! Bet you anything Kalani was the traitor, he infiltrated tower 2, and they caught him, no other reason his file would be with the mallers. I've been saying it woulc ome down between kelly and kalani for forever! Suck it people who thought it was Angel, Datu (*cough* nikvoodoo *cough*), or anyone else! I can't believe no one had thought that tower two could have had encounters with the mallers. Or maybe someone did and I didn't see it. Either way, this was awesome! Just surprise after surprise!


OMGosh! I have been so one sided with Kalani I guess I refused to believe he was a bad guy! Even when I thought his reaction to Angel asking him if he was supposed to be watching Pippin and Kalani said WHO all weird and worried like.

Anyways..I like the way you think (kinda..lol...n/r) TOTALLY makes sense if tower was destroyed within three days of his arrival!

This is driving me !!CRAZY!! so, I want to ask your thoughts on what is up with VICTOR in the last episode?? Twice he started to tell Saul of something that seems to be bugging him and then did not. he ends up just saying 'Nevermind'. I am trying to make this simple to read! Seems like people get really worked up and I have a hard time figuring out what their POINT is on here!! forgive me.

ALL I can think of is:

1) Something happened during the time Victor and Saul split up from room they were watching the garden in. Did Victor see, hear or run into someone or something on the way down to the truck (he took awhile to help Saul when he was being choked)? When Saul said 'dont touch the blinds' and Victor says 'I didnt', the blinds DID make a sound..like maybe a door was opened and the air pressure moved the blinds?? Something in the room with them? A trap? A camera?


2) The body he got the 8th st address off of was somebody he recognized? He saw a zombie at downed tower with a body of someone from their tower? He found something else in their search of the rubble?

3) He recognizes something with Chinwe? He peeked from under his blindfold (he was in the rear on way into her stronghold, right? He should have peeked like crazy!!) He smelled something?

4) They had really seen two ppl at the garden gate and forgot to take that into account with the distraction of Saul almost getting killed by an 'Asian Chick'?

5)He injured himself & now worried bout infection?

LOL....can you tell it really is driving me nuts!!! I dont want to have to wait until the 5th!!! The two-three months we JUST got through after last season! Two weeks between chapters is hard as it is! Now, we all have to wait 3 weeks!!!!!

[7oddisdead]

Everything /\rthur said is true..

Many of the storytelling elements presented here are nothing terribly innovative when you break them down to individual parts..but it's the elements intertwining and connecting that makes the whole thing innovative as a total package...this is the part of this entire series where I would compare it to LOST....the blending of all these random elements to create one giant mind-fuck of a cohesive story...

So.. For myself, I could see Randy being tied into the other tower most certainly...but sadly..i feel that's a subject that we will merely hear about rather than see any kind of "action" from it...when you have twelve dozen loose ends to bring together...not everything can get some sort if physical closure...i do however feel that cj being associated with either corrections officers, or fort irwin...(possibly part of the chopper team from lax?) would make sense and bridge the two sections together...hell, we had the private at ft Irwin all but identify the chopper they rode in on...and then the next chapter we meet a character that in all likelihood is someone we assumed dead?...bringing those two elements together is just good business...

end of...

[Pandora]

I think the Mallers captured his Hannah and he was then forced to be a rat or whatever for them (possibly like the slaves)...I think he thinks Hannah is dead but she might be the one Tar and Scratch refer to as 'No Response'. It is obvious huh? KC wants us all riled up! 3 weeks!!!!! Grrrrrr

[Pandora]

I SOOO agree with you! KC is really working it! If the next episode does not have Saul in it and is just about ft irwin I am going to be really really pissed!

[Pandora]

Bill was the thief remember? I forgot or missed that Kalani was put on duty at the party. Oh DARN I will have to listen to that part again!

There is no way Kalani made it off the tarmac! He could not even run with Angel at the base. He could not run from the other tower (if he was really there..his story was very fragmented and not clear of what happened to him when Michael was interviewing him, he probably just used what Samantha had told him). His line of the zombies on the islands being 'meaner than the ones you got here' sounds really hokey..how can you get meaner than what they are experiencing in LA? Datu made a VERY obvious statement when he said that he (Datu) would not have guessed his name was Kalani..his name did not fit him.

I bet Kalani is not his real name...he saw that Hawaiian airplane crash and made up his story to go along with that because he could fly. He was probably in prison for flying drugs or something illegal. If he was escaping to somewhere with less chance of zombies he would NOT go to LAX! If he had experienced 'meaner' zombies he would have flown to a much smaller airport. Smaller population=smaller zombie pop.

I hope next chapter is ALL about Saul and Victor! I think FT.Irwin will be the final safe place for the end of the story as KC only plans 4 seasons or chapters.

[Satanic Mechanic]

holy crap, I listen to an episode and stuff seems to make sense, then I read the forum and my head explodes. I love the connections you guys make!

[Nathan.Luiz]

For people saying Kalani couldn't have made it off the Tarmac at LAX, who says he ran away from zombies there? What's not to say there was an intense firefight between them and the zombies, and when they had finally dispatched of the zombies, there was only 3 left. Kalani never says how they got off the Tarmac, only that they did.

[Hellbringer]

Alright, just finished listening with the family, and I thought of something.

When Victor and Saul wait around for that 15 minutes or so, what was Victor doing? Did he read more of the book "The Lord of the Flies"? It sounds funny or strange, but I really want to know.

[Kunja]

I know I'm a little late, but I wanted to send a Thank You to KC...
I have to admit, I've been less then excited for new episodes since they started to get fragmented into multiple story lines... and to be honest, I only found myself listening because I was so far invested into the story...

This new episode was like a breath of fresh air! After I finished it, I listened to it again! I'm very excited for the story again...
Bravo Sir, Bravo

[Pandora]

Alright, just finished listening with the family, and I thought of something.

When Victor and Saul wait around for that 15 minutes or so, what was Victor doing? Did he read more of the book "The Lord of the Flies"? It sounds funny or strange, but I really want to know.

What 15 minutes are you talking about? Right before Chinwe shows up? He was reading. Then he was pondering leaving that building right...talking about it being the very least a source of fresh food.

[Grognaurd]

RE: *Kalani @ flight line*
Kalani does not have to be a sprinter, he just has to run faster than someone else and I say, if your friends make you look to fat, find fatter friends

RE: CJ
I do not have a lot of evidence for this, but Maybe CJ is a survivalist. *Lots and lots of Book Knowledge, but is getting practical experience on the fly. *Correction officers do not have their own weapon like the army. *They are communal. *My brother said they get to fire like 15rounds a year and only a couple of rounds at at time. *Not sure if a CO would know sights. *CJ got a lot of things rigth very quickly, but a lot of things wrong IMO. *
No defense in depth
No evidence of populace having battle stations.
No evidence of a safe room
No evidence a back door
No evidence of multi-door quarantine system...

Combat, ugh
If you want to kill someone. *Kill them. *
A sweep to knock the person down is used to break contact / establish initiative. *Surprise is even better at establishing initiative or breaking contact (do not surprise). *So why degrade the advantage?
If one has a ranged weapon do not enter hand held range or worse open hand range.

Although this at first blush appears to be a one on one combat situation, This is not the octagon. *This is the battlefield. *One must think carefully before taking combat to the ground. *CJ seems to be alone, Saul may have one or more allies not to mention the zombie wild card that was just ratcheted up by 2 gun shots.

For a podcast character CJ is cool, maybe even a badass chick. *But when I grind it down hard into reality like KC seems to do, what I see is Weak Sauce

The choke. *This is more a question of combat style. *If she could so easily get a choke, she could get a variety of joint locks. *A choke can panic a noob, but people with training are not going to be bothered by it. *This late in the game, one should expect combat training. *Last, the "choke" in which I have trained is not a choke at all. *If the opponent chokes, it is being down wrong. *It is really hard to shut the airway. *The angle of the forearm blade should be the side of the neck. *Disrupt the blood supply, not air supply.

I guess I am the jester of long posts. *Where CJ is impressing me is the stealth skills to survive alone. *Possibly observation, but we will have to see.

[badhead]

Wonder why chinwe is so good at keeping records. Mabye she was in the police

[Hellbringer]

What 15 minutes are you talking about? Right before Chinwe shows up? He was reading. Then he was pondering leaving that building right...talking about it being the very least a source of fresh food.

The 15 minutes I referred to was when Chinwe was sorting through her notes from the safe for the maller info so that Victor and Saul could try to piece together more clues about their whereabouts. I should've been a little more comprehensive because I was drawing from part 2 (when Victor and Saul wait in the little building or shack and he discovers the book) and part 3 (when Victor and Saul wait for Chinwe to sort through her files).

[Hellbringer]

Wonder why chinwe is so good at keeping records. Mabye she was in the police

That crossed my mind, as well as a librarian. But I've never met a librarian who could move, talk, or act like Chinwe; so I drop that theory and go with maybe detective.

[Pandora]

The 15 minutes I referred to was when Chinwe was sorting through her notes from the safe for the maller info so that Victor and Saul could try to piece together more clues about their whereabouts. I should've been a little more comprehensive because I was drawing from part 2 (when Victor and Saul wait in the little building or shack and he discovers the book) and part 3 (when Victor and Saul wait for Chinwe to sort through her files).

Oh..it is not of import. Saul just said they waited while she went through her stuff and pulled out what had to with prisoners. They waited I guess.

[Eviebae]

the hoodie girl is Datu's ex. it was Datu that skipped out on his kids. and Datu's ex wife fallowed Datu here to collect back child support.

We're Not Dead seems to have taken you seriously! Pretty sure it's humor...


Wonder why chinwe is so good at keeping records. Mabye she was in the police

What matters more to me than the job she did before the apocalypse--who knows how much of a choice she had in doing it--is the type of person her actions show her to be. she is meticulous and cautious but not terribly experienced with hand to hand. She puts her whole being into a fight. She not only sees the worth of knowledge; she trusts it. For instance, She trusts Saul because he seems to know about his weapon (she could have been bluffing and just listening to his tone and type of info he supplied).

If I had to guess, I'd say she was a historian or some sort of an academic who was physically fit.

[nikvoodoo]

We're Not Dead seems to have taken you seriously! Pretty sure it's humor...
Nah, we caught that werewolf was joking. At least I knew he was, though I certainly can't speak to the thought processes of two other people. That's why I was joking about her messed up priorities.

[Grognaurd]

Ooops...

Listened to WND 29 and heard the description of chinwes place. It seems they did have a double gate quarantine system

[7oddisdead]

did a little research on corrections officers job requirements..it would seem to fit the bill as far as cj's behaviour is concerned. the only thing im not entirely sure on is...

was eastern a federal or state facility?... i cant remember, and that WOULD change the amount of training required. just something to think about, cause it would seem to be within the realm of possibility..could also explain her knowing of the mallers very early on...or perhaps be part of the "personal files" she wanted to omit from the vic/saul pile. after having saul put a gun to your head once, i would not want to hand him some files directly FROM the prison ...seems a good way to have a "lit fuse" go off in your hand...i like my fingers

*edit: and to touch on my buddy art's thing with the gate/door..even if this was a post apocalyptic event without zombies...someone in a corrections position would think at first of how a prison would be laid out..dual or triple gates...re-enforced walls..sound deadening..these would be the first things on the list...if you stop and think about it..the description of the inside of the other tower sounds very "prison-like"

[Hoff4D]

Hey Guys, new to the forums, been listening for a few weeks, and of course I finally catch up during a couple week break in the recordings....ugh!

Anyways, came here to hold me over until the next chapter. Wanted to add some of my own speculations:

Regarding the 'recently turned' body Victor and Saul found the map on, I think he was most likely a 'scout' for the Mallers, came across Chinwe's as a fresh food source and took note. Being seedy individuals, I think the Mallers would hold out against one another as contingency plans, and the few scouts that have seen/stolen from Chinwe's would have kept this information to themselves. During the bringing down of the tower and all that calamity, he got turned.

Either that OR:

Chinwe is CJ, and someone from the other tower was taken hostage (like Kalani or Samantha) in the Arena and had just survived long enough for the Mallers to attack the arena, and broke out during the fray of the flesh-biters going after Mallers. This person still had a map to the other tower with them, and was most likely on their way back after the explosion, and got turned near the battle that brought down the tower and became mixed up in everything.



Now, isn't the timeline of all this around summer time in LA?(I recall Michael griping about the heat) For someone to be running around in a hoodie, seems odd. I'm with Saul about the idea of 'dressing alike hides your numbers'....Also, I don't think KC would have Saul say this without a reason for it. So I'm totally on board with there being more people in this stronghold, and what we believe to be 'the other tower'

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

RE: *Kalani @ flight line*
Kalani does not have to be a sprinter, he just has to run faster than someone else and I say, if your friends make you look to fat, find fatter friends

RE: CJ
I do not have a lot of evidence for this, but Maybe CJ is a survivalist. *Lots and lots of Book Knowledge, but is getting practical experience on the fly. *Correction officers do not have their own weapon like the army. *They are communal. *My brother said they get to fire like 15rounds a year and only a couple of rounds at at time. *Not sure if a CO would know sights. *CJ got a lot of things rigth very quickly, but a lot of things wrong IMO. *
No defense in depth
No evidence of populace having battle stations.
No evidence of a safe room
No evidence a back door
No evidence of multi-door quarantine system...

Combat, ugh
If you want to kill someone. *Kill them. *
A sweep to knock the person down is used to break contact / establish initiative. *Surprise is even better at establishing initiative or breaking contact (do not surprise). *So why degrade the advantage?
If one has a ranged weapon do not enter hand held range or worse open hand range.

Although this at first blush appears to be a one on one combat situation, This is not the octagon. *This is the battlefield. *One must think carefully before taking combat to the ground. *CJ seems to be alone, Saul may have one or more allies not to mention the zombie wild card that was just ratcheted up by 2 gun shots.

For a podcast character CJ is cool, maybe even a badass chick. *But when I grind it down hard into reality like KC seems to do, what I see is Weak Sauce

The choke. *This is more a question of combat style. *If she could so easily get a choke, she could get a variety of joint locks. *A choke can panic a noob, but people with training are not going to be bothered by it. *This late in the game, one should expect combat training. *Last, the "choke" in which I have trained is not a choke at all. *If the opponent chokes, it is being down wrong. *It is really hard to shut the airway. *The angle of the forearm blade should be the side of the neck. *Disrupt the blood supply, not air supply.

I guess I am the jester of long posts. *Where CJ is impressing me is the stealth skills to survive alone. *Possibly observation, but we will have to see.

WAIT! WAIT! who says that a person trained for a choke won't be bothered by it?? Direct exp says otherwise. It takes less than 30 seconds to go out from a choke. And of course a "choke" isn't a choke.. but Circulation disruption hold.. um.. too long.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

WAIT! WAIT! who says that a person trained for a choke won't be bothered by it?? Direct exp says otherwise. It takes less than 30 seconds to go out from a choke. And of course a "choke" isn't a choke.. but Circulation disruption hold.. um.. too long.

On the topic of combat... WTH did Saul's "Knife" go? You NEVER go anywhere without your most trusted blade. mine is simply called "The Knife!" I speak of it like I do Chuck Norris.. Matter of fact, when he needs to shave, he asks.. er.., he takes it from me.

[Grognaurd]

RE CHoke

Cowbar, I should have been more clear. The problem is the term Choke. In the case of this chapter, Chinwe was "choking" Saul. We hear him cough and sputter. In my mind, someone with training should not be seriously bothered by it. If they feel really uncomfortable with it, turing the head to a shoulder does a pretty could job opening the air way.

To make sure we are on the same wavelength, what you describe is what I call a throtle. I have seen people tap-out. I have seen experienced black belts try to fight it off and pass out in freestyle sparring with no ref.

So, in my opinion the objective of a "choke" hold is not to choke but to throtle. I hear Saul choke and with the other events leading up to it and I think poorly trained attacker.

knife
I do not know where the knife is either. In chapter 24 I think he is using fists to pound the downed maller. My guess is if he was using a knife we would hear some snicks or slurps and gurgles.

Prison
When Saul, lizzy and Burt (I miss Burt) are out for the tanker Burt says it is a federal prison when Lizzy asks Saul if that is where he was held. With the null response from Saul, we do not know. The chances are pretty damn small, but maybe in some sort of over-population a local federal will take state prisoners. I do not know. Saul is the one who brings up going to a prison to hold up, right?

And here I go again...

Lizzy and Todd come to the door. Michael yells for help. Angel gets to the door and has to go back because he forgot the keys. Angel has time to run from his room to michael, back to his room and then back to Michael again. When Michael first yells, I think I heard Saul reply. This begs the question: WTF, Saul?

He is not calling his mom
I do not think a conversation with his girl would be so deep that he would not go to Michael' aid.
I do not think he is afraid.

Talking to someone else who survived the day? Now that most of the cell phone users are dead and the cell towers and exchanges are still powered he could probably get through to someone.

but whom?

[Grognaurd]

A chuck jokes should go to their own thread, but I can not resist. Like Bobbi, this is one geared to the older crowd. Made it up myself although someone probably made up the same one.

Chuck Norris KNOWS it is not butter

[Adventureless_Hero]

RE CHoke
knife
I do not know where the knife is either. In chapter 24 I think he is using fists to pound the downed maller. My guess is if he was using a knife we would hear some snicks or slurps and gurgles.


In the chat KC said that he has it with him, he just has no use for it:

13:32 Kc: @Adventureless_Hero He just hasn't had to use it.

[reaper239]

On the topic of combat... WTH did Saul's "Knife" go? You NEVER go anywhere without your most trusted blade. mine is simply called "The Knife!" I speak of it like I do Chuck Norris.. Matter of fact, when he needs to shave, he asks.. er.., he takes it from me.

amen, i always keep my emerson (http://emersonknives.com/ekRoadhouse.php) on me. everytime i see it open i start singing "swing low, sweet chariot, coming forth to carry me home." picturse just don't do it justice.

[Hellbringer]

did a little research on corrections officers job requirements..it would seem to fit the bill as far as cj's behaviour is concerned. the only thing im not entirely sure on is...

I agree that she would meet corrections officer requirements. But if she lived in my area, she wouldn't, because she's in shape. I guess jailbirds in my neck of the woods aren't as tough as the Cali jail bird.

[7oddisdead]

I agree that she would meet corrections officer requirements. But if she lived in my area, she wouldn't, because she's in shape. I guess jailbirds in my neck of the woods aren't as tough as the Cali jail bird.

hey...same in my area. That's what has me wondering about the prison itself. State ran facilities have some rather loose requirements...but federal requires considerable training, both in the field and in the classroom.

[Willy Beamen]

Does Michael still have his pink cast on? And if he do, why hasn't anyone been making fun of it? Seems to me there is all kinds of opportunity for one-liners here.

[Willy Beamen]

I'll admit that I am being a little lazy for not checking the past posts myself, but I recall someone brought up the Victor pregnant pause when they arrive at CJ's "home" (Chinwe I know, but I am a believer in the CJ theory) and I would like to offer this insight...when the group was at the compound south of LA Hope told Michael that she was brought in by Shaun after the attack on the tower, which means Victor may have been there at the same time, which means Victor knows exactly where they are, which means...

[Blues_127]

I was debating re-listening to all of the show... After reading, I see THERE is ALOT I missed... Time to do a back to back marathon. Break out the coffee!!!!!

[nikvoodoo]

I'll admit that I am being a little lazy for not checking the past posts myself, but I recall someone brought up the Victor pregnant pause when they arrive at CJ's "home" (Chinwe I know, but I am a believer in the CJ theory) and I would like to offer this insight...when the group was at the compound south of LA Hope told Michael that she was brought in by Shaun after the attack on the tower, which means Victor may have been there at the same time, which means Victor knows exactly where they are, which means...

...that Chinwe would recognize Victor immediately more than likely? I'm honestly I'm not sure exactly what conclusion you were trying to draw.

[Willy Beamen]

I guess I have only two points here....1. Victor (possibly) has been to Chinwe's apartment complex before as part of Shaun's team and 2. Chinwe is therefore CJ
Chinwe may not recognize Victor because maybe she wasn't there when it got hit and thats why she survived.
I put the ellipse because I'm not even sure where I'm going with this; just throwing it out there.

"was brought in by Shaun after the attack on the tower" - I am referring to CJ's tower here of course.

[7oddisdead]

I guess I have only two points here....1. Victor (possibly) has been to Chinwe's apartment complex before as part of Shaun's team and 2. Chinwe is therefore CJ
Chinwe may not recognize Victor because maybe she wasn't there when it got hit and thats why she survived.
I put the ellipse because I'm not even sure where I'm going with this; just throwing it out there.

"was brought in by Shaun after the attack on the tower" - I am referring to CJ's tower here of course.

its a good theory, but in truth...victor should not even had needed to be taken to the other tower. from the description of the inside, im sure if sean described the place in better detail than say, kalani did..then just seeing the basic layout of the place should have told victor where exactly, he is...

[JahMas Roozell]

Just some thoughts during my third time through....

26-3 @ 12:10 just as Saul, Victor and Chin Way enter the gate Victor says "Uh

Saul." "I'm right here" Saul replies. Victor continues "I just uhhh... AH

never mind."
What do you think that was about? Afraid of the dark?

I think that the Inked/pin striped zombie is the criminal from the TIVO'd news report... because he's still wearing the clothes he wore in court

Does Saul's criminal past (larceny) resurface or will Michael learn about it?

In Ep 6-3 @ 13:40 Saul calls Michael 'Mikey' and Michael snaps at him... why does he react to the nickname? And who gave it to him?

Don't know if this was posted (I didn't see it). World War Z 2012 Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMm4s1268to&feature=related

[JahMas Roozell]

sorry forgot to add this on...
Kalani is DEFIANTLY the traitor no matter what shenanigans Kc is up to....

Speaking of shenanigans... what's up with the Kc... K (caps) c (lower case) {its not yelling when it comes to initials}

Great show. Keep up giving us the details that drive us CRAZY to see how they fit.

[Willy Beamen]

Oh snap. I forgot that Victor was still blindfolded when he had his pregnant pause. So, do we know for sure that Victor wasn't part of the rescue team with Sean? I guess he would have offered up more info when he joined the tower group if he was.

[7oddisdead]

yea..we dont know what missions victor went on with sean, but the impression i got was victor and fernando were for the most part a dynamic duo of sorts....didnt really work with to many others

[7oddisdead]

Just some thoughts during my third time through....

26-3 @ 12:10 just as Saul, Victor and Chin Way enter the gate Victor says "Uh

Saul." "I'm right here" Saul replies. Victor continues "I just uhhh... AH

never mind."
What do you think that was about? Afraid of the dark?

I think that the Inked/pin striped zombie is the criminal from the TIVO'd news report... because he's still wearing the clothes he wore in court

Does Saul's criminal past (larceny) resurface or will Michael learn about it?

In Ep 6-3 @ 13:40 Saul calls Michael 'Mikey' and Michael snaps at him... why does he react to the nickname? And who gave it to him?

Don't know if this was posted (I didn't see it). World War Z 2012 Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMm4s1268to&feature=related

in order(i included your other two points from the other post as well)

1: many of us have speculated that victor has had a realization of sorts as to where he and saul are

2:many of us feel bill roberts is/was/became ink/theonewithmarkings/theoneinthepinstripedsuit/whateverelseyawannacallhim

3:saul's past has yet to really resurface at all(aside from the few aside mentions by michael)michael knows of sauls past, or at least he seems to...but he seems very hesitant to bring it up

4:early on michael is very hesitant to get close to anyone in any way, this could have something to do with that. also, if michael allows saul to call him "mikey" then the rest of the tower people could see that as a sign of dissention among the "troops" so to say. at that point michael had been leading with a semi-strong hand...hearing saul call him mikey would put a chink in that armor

5that looks really awesome...maybe post a thread about it in the movies section down in "everything else" dept...i know many people here are pretty excited about it. but try to keep those things separate from the chapter discussions(seriously not trying to be a rent-a-mod, just a friendly suggestion:) )

6:the group of people here who agree with that is ever growing,

7:http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?1267-Ask-Him-Yourself!&p=25913&highlight=stand#post25913

welcome to the forum!

[kingdatutheresourceful]

I think the real question here is who was his Hana?

[nikvoodoo]

I think the real question here is who was his Hana?

First off: I'm flattered.
Second:Your avatar rocks!
Third: most popular theory is the girl at the golf course. Beyond that.........who knows.

[KaitoIceCream]

I'm saying Hannah is probably Kalani's daughter. Before he went kamikaze on the mallers, didn't he mention her? If my memory isn't fooling me, Angel has something of Kalani's...before the tower fell. Perhaps it was his billfold? I don't remember.

[nikvoodoo]

I'm saying Hannah is probably Kalani's daughter. Before he went kamikaze on the mallers, didn't he mention her? If my memory isn't fooling me, Angel has something of Kalani's...before the tower fell. Perhaps it was his billfold? I don't remember.

Angel says its Kalani's journal, but he doesn't have them anymore. He put them in Hope's backpack with Lady. So Hope has it right now.

And Kalani's exact quote was "That girl? That was my Hannah" (the question mark may be incorrect. It just makes grammatical sense to me. An ellipses would also work I suppose.)

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

in order(i included your other two points from the other post as well)

1: many of us have speculated that victor has had a realization of sorts as to where he and saul are

2:many of us feel bill roberts is/was/became ink/theonewithmarkings/theoneinthepinstripedsuit/whateverelseyawannacallhim

3:saul's past has yet to really resurface at all(aside from the few aside mentions by michael)michael knows of sauls past, or at least he seems to...but he seems very hesitant to bring it up

4:early on michael is very hesitant to get close to anyone in any way, this could have something to do with that. also, if michael allows saul to call him "mikey" then the rest of the tower people could see that as a sign of dissention among the "troops" so to say. at that point michael had been leading with a semi-strong hand...hearing saul call him mikey would put a chink in that armor

5that looks really awesome...maybe post a thread about it in the movies section down in "everything else" dept...i know many people here are pretty excited about it. but try to keep those things separate from the chapter discussions(seriously not trying to be a rent-a-mod, just a friendly suggestion:) )

6:the group of people here who agree with that is ever growing,

7:http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?1267-Ask-Him-Yourself!&p=25913&highlight=stand#post25913

welcome to the forum!


I gotta disagree with you on Saul's past. His past is better known than anyone elses.
1. We all know he moved back to Cali to hook up with Mike's unit.
2. We know he did a little bit of time but joined the Military to keep from doing more.
3. We know about his mom and aunt.
4. We know he lived alone (kinda)
5. We know all about his mom
6. We know how he got most of his medical training
7. We know his MOS

Burt is the next person with a pretty filled in backstory.

[7oddisdead]

I gotta disagree with you on Saul's past. His past is better known than anyone elses.
1. We all know he moved back to Cali to hook up with Mike's unit.
2. We know he did a little bit of time but joined the Military to keep from doing more.
3. We know about his mom and aunt.
4. We know he lived alone (kinda)
5. We know all about his mom
6. We know how he got most of his medical training
7. We know his MOS

Burt is the next person with a pretty filled in backstory.

i was basing that answer solely on his criminal past. michael(and to a lesser extent lizzie and burt) are the only ones who really know saul did time. lizzie/burt havent really brought it up, and michael has been slightly elusive about sauls "loose cannon" status..but otherwise i totally agree..sauls file is very filled in.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

i was basing that answer solely on his criminal past. michael(and to a lesser extent lizzie and burt) are the only ones who really know saul did time. lizzie/burt havent really brought it up, and michael has been slightly elusive about sauls "loose cannon" status..but otherwise i totally agree..sauls file is very filled in.

Ahhh, copy that!

Did anyone else notice that Saul aka KC finally said which post he was based at? KC danced around it for a season and a half (we thought Ft Drum since it's where 10th Mtn is). Ft Bell... I'm searching for that.

[reaper239]

I think the real question here is who was his Hana?

no, i think the real question is: WHO WAS PHONE?! (http://creepypasta.wikia.com/wiki/WHO_WAS_PHONE%3F)

[Grognaurd]

Does Michael know? I am not sure. I cannot remember any evidence for that. In Chapter 1, Saul talks about hanging out in a Prison. Angel says that he believes he could, and "I know you can". I think of this as Angel speaking to Saul. As an officer, maybe he has looked at a personel file or something. Would an LT have that for everyone in his Squad? Would a junior sargent?

I am not sure when it occurs. But, I have a memmory of Burt Laughing and saying I do not know. I think this had something to do with a Michael statement around Saul with prison. Burt, knows. An inside joke? Burt knows, but will not admit it? I cannot remember

[reaper239]

i highly doubt a sgt would unless they had some kind of disciplinary dealings. more likely if michael knew it's because they were sitting around talking one day about the past and it came up. not sure about angel

[Raven]

I don't think Micheal knew about Saul's past and going to prison. In the first episode Michael recaps Saul saying "he said the California girls were calling to him" making me think he didn't know about Saul actually being from California. There was also a comment about Michael would have crossed the room to avoid running into Micheal and Angel at a bar before the outbreak.
The scene when Saul is telling Burt and Lizzie about his doing time in prison and Burt laughing was when Lizzie saw the Fed prison and she asked if that was where Saul was. Burt was pretty dismissive of Saul in the beginning and I think he was more laughing like "him? That is where they send the worst of the worst" type thing

[Grognaurd]

Raven, I think there is another example. Maybe in about last night. I will have to double check, I think Tanya says I raised you better than that. Michael is clueless and Burt laughs. But, my recall is not what it once was.

[Hellbringer]

Ahhh, copy that!

Did anyone else notice that Saul aka KC finally said which post he was based at? KC danced around it for a season and a half (we thought Ft Drum since it's where 10th Mtn is). Ft Bell... I'm searching for that.


I would've sworn Saul said he was at Drum somewhere at the beginning of the series. 10th Mountain is at two places: Fort Drum and Fort Polk, but that place in Louisiana only has a brigade from 10th Mountain.
Were you thinking of Fort Belvoir?

[Blood & Ice Cream]

a few thoughts:

MSO - if Saul is a 11Bravo is Michael also the same MSO? he doesn't appear senior or qualified enough to be something military intelligence (as mentioned in Chapter 1) like a 35Xray - but the 223rd is a Military Intelligence Battalion (Linguist) afterall

Chinwe - not sure she is military; has knowledge of M16A2's and anti-personnel mines, where does one get this kit from? i don't think she is alone either (Sean hiding out with her maybe?) but she is defo a bit paranoid, why store comprehensive intel on the mallers in a safe in a secured apartment block in a deserted city? a police detective maybe? i like the prison officer idea though, she didn't question the mention that the mallers were prisoners plus why did they have to keep their voices down when leavin their truck for chinwe's place?

Fort Irwin - wonder if it has been attacked previously, mmm googles average walking speed of a zombie and distance between barstow and fort irwin - it can be covered in less than 20 hours solid march - just the barracks are surrounded with texas barriers? tb's are reinforced concrete and can be a couple of metres tall, but that wouldn't stop an organised zombie attack, i'm guessin that fort irwin is also surrounded by mines and claymores

roll on the 5th!

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Wow! that was a lot of questions about the military. Let me start with Arthur's question about Personnel Files: They only deal with a person's military career. Anything prior to enlistment/commission isn't/won't be known.

Hellbringer: A few of us Military cats went around and around about where Saul transferred from. KC come on and basically said that He's never said Saul was "10th" Mtn... just Mtn. So, he's taking liberties with the Division. Creative license and all that jive.
In the part where Chinwe asks him to prove he's military. Chp 26 ep 3/3: Time hack @6:39 "Saul Tink. 11B based out of Bell." Is that Ft. Belvoir?? I dunno. I'm and USAF dude and not hip.

Blood&Ice Cream..
Not to sound like a dick, but being Jr. enlisted doesn't mean anything when it comes to MOS/AFSC's. If you're qualified, you're qualified. You have E2's doing target acquisitions downrange.
I'm not Army smart (heheh.. sorry.. interservice joke was bubbling up) but Mike and Saul can have different MOS and serve in the same Battalion. Come to think of it, Mike has never said what his MOS actually is.

[Raven]

I was thinking Bell was Bel Air....shows what I know

[reaper239]

the only base with bell i know of is belvoir. mike was sauls squad leader right? and angel was their platoon leader right? (not 100% sure just throwing ideas) if they are in the same platoon, and squad and whatnot, wouldn't their MOS be in the same series? or... idk. i do know that michael said he was in military intelligence, but has he switched units since he was MI or is he in the same unit. it didn't seem like he was a technician, and when he talked about his time in the sandbox, it sounded like he was behind the wire so my best guess would be in the 96 series. 97s look like field work, and 98s are largely linguistic, so i say 96.

[Grognaurd]

I would've sworn Saul said he was at Drum somewhere at the beginning of the series. 10th Mountain is at two places: Fort Drum and Fort Polk, but that place in Louisiana only has a brigade from 10th Mountain.
Were you thinking of Fort Belvoir?

Yes, In part 2 of about last night, Tanya says he moved to NY, Saul affirms and says Fort Drum. This is also the scene that I referenced above. Tanya says I raised you better than that. Michael asks what are they talking about. Burt says he does not know. Relistening to it last night, Laugh is too strong a word. More like a slight chuckle, but I can definately here the smile in his voice.

In Chapter 1, Michael says Mountain Division. Later (as described above) Saul says he moved to Fort Drum. So it is pretty safe to assume the 10th

[Grognaurd]

Wow! that was a lot of questions about the military. Let me start with Arthur's question about Personnel Files: They only deal with a person's military career. Anything prior to enlistment/commission isn't/won't be known.

Hellbringer: A few of us Military cats went around and around about where Saul transferred from. KC come on and basically said that He's never said Saul was "10th" Mtn... just Mtn. So, he's taking liberties with the Division. Creative license and all that jive.
In the part where Chinwe asks him to prove he's military. Chp 26 ep 3/3: Time hack @6:39 "Saul Tink. 11B based out of Bell." Is that Ft. Belvoir?? I dunno. I'm and USAF dude and not hip.

Blood&Ice Cream..
Not to sound like a dick, but being Jr. enlisted doesn't mean anything when it comes to MOS/AFSC's. If you're qualified, you're qualified. You have E2's doing target acquisitions downrange.
I'm not Army smart (heheh.. sorry.. interservice joke was bubbling up) but Mike and Saul can have different MOS and serve in the same Battalion. Come to think of it, Mike has never said what his MOS actually is.

Isn't the subsection with of LA where Saul, Michael and Angel report in chapter 1 called Bell?

I think when the three of them are plotting times of outbreak one of the note books says, Bell, 11:00. There is laughter and something like well, we knew about that.

[Grognaurd]

the only base with bell i know of is belvoir. mike was sauls squad leader right? and angel was their platoon leader right? (not 100% sure just throwing ideas) if they are in the same platoon, and squad and whatnot, wouldn't their MOS be in the same series? or... idk. i do know that michael said he was in military intelligence, but has he switched units since he was MI or is he in the same unit. it didn't seem like he was a technician, and when he talked about his time in the sandbox, it sounded like he was behind the wire so my best guess would be in the 96 series. 97s look like field work, and 98s are largely linguistic, so i say 96.

When Angel and Michael are on the phone, I am pretty sure Angel says he was tasked to call his squad. My guess is Angeel is Squad Leader. Michael leads a half squad. Do they call them Fireteams now? I think Angel is too green for a platoon. I gather this is his first assignment and he has been Squad-leader A weekend a month for less than a year. He was not even when them with they did the two weeks.

[minty]

I bet that Kalani was the rat then he turned his back on the mallers on the mission with Angel coz he saw that these people really cared for him, shot Pippin so he would not ran again, he in the end loved the tower crew so much he dies for them, to save them, and in his book is all this, also i he when everyone finds out about this next ep. everyone will hate him exsept Michale and Victor!!

[Kc]

When Angel and Michael are on the phone, I am pretty sure Angel says he was tasked to call his squad. My guess is Angeel is Squad Leader. Michael leads a half squad. Do they call them Fireteams now? I think Angel is too green for a platoon. I gather this is his first assignment and he has been Squad-leader A weekend a month for less than a year. He was not even when them with they did the two weeks.

A lot of reserve units have mixed MOS's that cross-train to fill positions. Saul did. He was prior infantry, but was set for cross-training in Michael's unit, but hadn't been sent to his re-class school yet.

[reaper239]

A lot of reserve units have mixed MOS's that cross-train to fill positions. Saul did. He was prior infantry, but was set for cross-training in Michael's unit, but hadn't been sent to his re-class school yet.

so this was still the MI unit?

[Kc]

Yup.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Episode and time hack when Saul says Ft Drum. please. I can dig up the convo me and... probably Leedo had on this very subject and the mastermind of Skull Screw'n that is KC threw both us under the hummer, or was it the MRAP? hmmm..
Man, this search is gonna hurt. Leedo must be playing in the sand.

[Grognaurd]

Episode and time hack when Saul says Ft Drum. please. I can dig up the convo me and... probably Leedo had on this very subject and the mastermind of Skull Screw'n that is KC threw both us under the hummer, or was it the MRAP? hmmm..
Man, this search is gonna hurt. Leedo must be playing in the sand.

Chapter 20 -- About last night Part 2 of 3 ~ 5:50

Oh, and no lose change or applause required. Just throw rep. LOL 8-)

[awkwardalex]

HEY did anyone notice the book Victor was reading in part 2? Lord of the Flies at first I thought I was grasping at straws but read the spark notes on it, and it does have some similar themes from We're Alive
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/flies/summary.html

http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/flies/themes.html

[Hellbringer]

HEY did anyone notice the book Victor was reading in part 2? Lord of the Flies at first I thought I was grasping at straws but read the spark notes on it, and it does have some similar themes from We're Alive
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/flies/summary.html

http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/flies/themes.html

I noticed. I'm still curious how far he's gotten in that book. And if he's seen the movie, because that one scene of Piggie as a visual is still pretty clear as day for me.

[Hellbringer]

Episode and time hack when Saul says Ft Drum. please. I can dig up the convo me and... probably Leedo had on this very subject and the mastermind of Skull Screw'n that is KC threw both us under the hummer, or was it the MRAP? hmmm..
Man, this search is gonna hurt. Leedo must be playing in the sand.

Crowbar, just listened to the timehack you gave earlier (for some of you all... former 98 series) Saul says, "11B with the 223rd based out of Bell." Looking at the wiki map for the series, it shows the unit being based out of Bell. Just to make sure that my mind wasn't tricks on me, I brought up the map on google maps, and sure enough, there's a "Bell" just south of "East Los Angeles." There goes my thought of Fort Belvoir, which is sad because it's truly a beautiful base, er post. I mean post.

Looking up the 223rd, because I'm always curious about reserve and guard units, I'm thinking of digging up an order of battle.

I'm looking forward to tomorrow and hearing the next chapter.

[Zombiphobe]

I know its been mentioned (and is pretty much a given) that Chinwe lost people from her group to the Zombies/Mallers. But I'm wondering if there might be more to it than just losing her fellow survivors.

When Saul tells her the Mallers took someone from him, there is a noticable shift in Chinwe's attitude. She says "If they took someone, then you're better off just letting that person go". She is then more open to the idea of sharing information and then even bringing them into here safe place. Perhaps she feels they now have something more in common and can relate to his situation.

Chinwe also wanted to remove personal information from the files they had on the Mallers. I wonder if the Mallers took someone close to her and she wasn't able to get him/her back. She would probably want to make sure she didn't share any personal information about herself to these two strangers and so removed it.

[Blues_127]

Do the mallers assocciate the two groups? Scratch says she has two of thiers....

[Pandora]

I'll admit that I am being a little lazy for not checking the past posts myself, but I recall someone brought up the Victor pregnant pause when they arrive at CJ's "home" (Chinwe I know, but I am a believer in the CJ theory) and I would like to offer this insight...when the group was at the compound south of LA Hope told Michael that she was brought in by Shaun after the attack on the tower, which means Victor may have been there at the same time, which means Victor knows exactly where they are, which means...

Victor pregnant? ?? ? ?


They need to take CJ out!!
I really dont like her.