Chapter 26- "Who Overcomes" Part 2

[nikvoodoo]

3.5 Hours away from a new We're Alive installment! :omgomg::excited:

[itsallgoodie]

So stoked, I'm going to try and keep up on this thread! We'll see how that goes.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Screw that. I was anxiously awaiting We're Not Dead 28 but no, it's not up yet. We all know that We're Alive's purpose is only to exist so that We're Not Dead can talk about it. It's all about WND baby! :P

Seriously, I'm very anxious for the next We're Alive. I feel more confident than ever that I feel like I know what will happen next. I'm going to laugh at myself when KC surprises me.

[nikvoodoo]

Screw that. I was anxiously awaiting We're Not Dead 28 but no, it's not up yet. We all know that We're Alive's purpose is only to exist so that We're Not Dead can talk about it. It's all about WND baby! :P


It's not up because it wasn't recorded. It was scheduled, and then had to be canceled for reasons I'm not at liberty to discuss.

(standby jingle bells and snow....jingle bells and snow: GO!)

So maybe if you all are good boys and girls, Jolly Ol' Saint Britt and her Jolly Elf Greggy will record a double episode this week. :) (and that's me spit balling. I have no insider knowledge of what is happening with this week's episode.)

[zombiesurvivor]

I can't wait for the new installment of we're alive

[Adventureless_Hero]

Okay so that was an interesting episode. I knew Saul was going to kick that gate to draw out who he thinks could be the Mallers. I say that because there is always the possibility that it is not Mallers who have that small orchard but rather some other group, like maybe an offshoot of the group that ran the water pumping station. That's just a random idea though and it is more than likely mallers who own this orchard.

Poor Michael. He needed that rest and I'm glad he's getting it. I want him firing on all cylinders when he speaks to the brass at Ft. Irwin, if he ever gets to.

Poor Mr. Whiskers. They just left his ass there at the site of the fallen tower. Mr. Whiskers, the caretaker of the fallen.

I'm guessing that Victor is going to come around just in time to fire a shot at the person in a hoodie. Maybe scare them away but hopefully not. I'd like them to get some info.

[TCM Revolver]

Call it a hunch, but I don't believe that was a maller. Perhaps we are stumbling upon another group of survivors...

good episode!

[nikvoodoo]

Call it a hunch, but I don't believe that was a maller. Perhaps we are stumbling upon another group of survivors...

good episode!

I like that hunch.

Enjoyable episode. I'm really getting to like where the character of Datu (in terms of personality) is going. He's not the one dimensional fix it man he started off as. I like that he's been given a sharp sense of humor and he's been using it (and I think its a lot closer to Jay's personality too from what I've seen and heard of him).

I like Saul's basic idea for his trap....but I would have been a lot more weary when going to try to follow. Especially since the response to the alarm wasn't immediate. I know hindsight is 20/20 but when the response wasn't immediate I thought one of two things: Either whomever "owned" that land was gone/dead/whatever or they were setting a trap of their own.

This seems to be a constant issue with Saul: Comes up with an interesting idea and then finds a way to screw it up by carelessness.

[Adventureless_Hero]

When referring to the trees in the garden did Victor say that the "one's we were going to have in Memorial Park weren't going to have anything for years". I thought the name of the park in the Colony was Liberty Park?

Anyway, if this person wearing the black hoodie isn't from the Mallers, then who could they be? A group that ran the water pumping station? Oh! How bad ass would it be if Sean survived Gatekeepers assassination attempt and was living outside the colony with a small group of people?

[itsallgoodie]

Idea, regardless of who it was that took out saul (i assume he's not dead) lets say its someone associated with the mallers, and they take saul as a slave or hostage, what have you. Now there is reason for saul to be paired up with lizzy, at the least, to find out she's alive. What im saying is that maybe getting caught is exactly what saul needs.

Now as for victor, the mallers have no idea that he is there, except that saul was talking to him on the radio, but for all they know, victor is 2 miles away, they wont waste time trying to find him they will leave with saul.

This allows for saul to find lizzy, and to begin hatching a plan before victor, just like michael, comes rushing in and takes them by storm. (that was a reference to the water pumping station episode). Then victor saul and lizzy are paired up once again.

:mad: BOOM GOODIE BLOWS THE ROOF OFF! :mad:

[Raven]

I knew Nik would beat me to it but Datu's pair dropped in the new season in a major way! All the comments about Peg's were great given all the tension and build up at Irwin. As for Saul..... well at least there is Victor right? And I know it hasn't come up in a few episodes but is he done with the pic drip ?

[7oddisdead]

When referring to the trees in the garden did Victor say that the "one's we were going to have in Memorial Park weren't going to have anything for years". I thought the name of the park in the Colony was Liberty Park?

Anyway, if this person wearing the black hoodie isn't from the Mallers, then who could they be? A group that ran the water pumping station? Oh! How bad ass would it be if Sean survived Gatekeepers assassination attempt and was living outside the colony with a small group of people?

100% right about the park reference. Could be one of two things
Typo...meant liberty park....oopsies!
We just learned something new 'bout victor

I'm much more inclined to believe this garden is a separate thing from all the groups we have met thus far. The mallers having a garden away from what we have known to this point as their "home turf" just doesn't seem like something they would do.

Anybody else get the feeling mr. Whiskers was trying to tell them of the approaching Zombies?...silly humans, bring the cat with you!!:)

Good episode

[Kc]

Typo...meant liberty park....oopsies!


Yup. That was an oops on my part. I'll fix it and re-upload it at a future date. It was supposed to be Liberty Park.

[nikvoodoo]

Yup. That was an oops on my part. I'll fix it and re-upload it at a future date. It was supposed to be Liberty Park.

Well hang on now......is it really a mistake, or were the people in the Colony the type to play games with words? Maybe it was Memorial Park but it was too depressing so they made it Liberty park!

Just like French fries became Freedom fries for a couple of people recently...

[Adventureless_Hero]

Dude, according to Google maps, 8th and Grand isn't that far from where the Tower was. This hidden orchard was right under the crew's nose!

Okay, so if it isn't a Maller in the hoodie, then why did the scribble on the candy wrapper come off a Maller's corpse? Or was he just some scavenger that showed up afterwards, turned, then was killed by his comrades?

[pokoey13]

or maybe victor changed the name because of the people that most likely died there.

[awkwardalex]

Call it a hunch, but I don't believe that was a maller. Perhaps we are stumbling upon another group of survivors...

good episode!

I agree I don't think a maller would be so quiet and secretive. They're pretty direct.


On another note, I walk my dog while listening. Today I got weird looks for giggling (Datu: Just because i don't put out...You were going to get lucky tonight Michael.) but, I got even weirder looks when I said, "Goddammit KC!" At the end of the chapter...I didn't think I was that loud.

[reaper239]

definitely not a maller.

[7oddisdead]

Speculation:

So what if the note on the candy wrapper or whatever is some special "secret garden" if you will amongst the maller group? By this I mean...one maller found it. Wrote the address on the scrap wrapper...used it as a quick fresh meal when out scavenging...later he dies, and the note moves on to the next maller..and so on until it lands in the hands of saul/vic..i could see that happening...honestly in a situation like this...if I was surrounded by people I knew I really couldn't trust entirely..i would keep it a secret as well

[Grognaurd]

Hmmm...

Hoodie?

Maybe it was one of the Boyle Heights Boys or the Seventeens.

[HardKor]

Dude, according to Google maps, 8th and Grand isn't that far from where the Tower was. This hidden orchard was right under the crew's nose!

Okay, so if it isn't a Maller in the hoodie, then why did the scribble on the candy wrapper come off a Maller's corpse? Or was he just some scavenger that showed up afterwards, turned, then was killed by his comrades?

We don't know that the corpse they found the candy wrapper on was a Maller's corpse. It was a zombie that looked "fresh" so they assumed he turned during the battle. He could have been from another group and just been recently turned and still had the wrapper on him.

[7oddisdead]

I can't seem to turn my theorizing brain off today...so lets question this

How could lord of the flies relate to the w/a story?

[cupcakezombie]

I would guess that the note on the candy wrapper could have been something that they Mallers were going to check out or had already checked out. If this is another group of survivors and the Mallers got wind of it they would have sent someone for a look. If it was an actual Maller hide-out I am not sure that there would have needed to be a note as it would be general talked about knowledge, and it probably would have been written on better paper if he did need a note. Whereas if Maller had followed hoodie guy to an address and then wrote it down to report back, it seems reasonable that the note might still be in his pocket on a lollie wrapper which, might have been all he had in terms of paper at the time
I am also wondering if Vic and Saul left the truck near the address after setting off the alarm. All it would take is for the hoodie guy to see the 'new' truck in the area to know that they hadn't left and put him on his guard. Then he would have had time to scope out the area and to see that they were still inside and lure them out.

Otherwise I really love the balance of slightly more happening to one of our groups at a time while we are juggling the two story lines. Last couple of episodes have been minor ones for Vic and Saul but big for Michael and the gang so it is nice to have a swap.

Last point, did anyone else have visions of Forrest Gump when Michael said "And that's all I remember about that"

[Adventureless_Hero]

I can't seem to turn my theorizing brain off today...so lets question this

How could lord of the flies relate to the w/a story?

They could mistake a human for a biter and spear the shit out of him. Or drop a boulder on a fat kid's head.

The theory of the secret garden where the candy wrapper passes from one person to the next doesn't work too well. At least two people had to know of the garden's existence; the guy carrying the scribble, and the person who responded to the alarm.

I'm going to go with the idea that the corpse belonged to some one from another group, a group that has been able to get around using stealth. A group that employs Skittles survival tactics. Run, hide, vanish. Be the wind! I like the stealth of this black-hoodie sporting person. Hopefully it turns out to be a girl, and her nick name will be Snake Eyes or something cool like that. NINJA!

[7oddisdead]

Whoa...what if dude in the hoodie IS skittles?...

And I think the point of the secret garden analogy was missed...dude in hoodie owns/lives at/around garden...mallers go there to steal goodies...but don't wanna share with the rest of the group...alls I was trying to say...

[Adventureless_Hero]

Whoa...what if dude in the hoodie IS skittles?...

And I think the point of the secret garden analogy was missed...dude in hoodie owns/lives at/around garden...mallers go there to steal goodies...but don't wanna share with the rest of the group...alls I was trying to say...

My bad. I did misunderstand your idea. I was thinking that one dude from the Mallers group knew of of it and kept it to himself, but I see what you are saying now. If the Mallers often went there to steal it would make sense why the person in the hoodie would set up an alarm.

I'm wondering why it took him hours to get there. Does this person in the hoodie only travel on foot? Oooh, how bad ass would it be if he was some lone teen or something, who is a student of parkour or some crazy shit. lol, I'm already getting images of an action sequence where flesh biters (the jumping kind) are chasing hoodie around roof tops and alley's.

Anyway, I'm done speculating. I can do no more but wonder. All I end up with is that this hoodie guy is like 60% likely not to be a Maller, Victor is going to come to the aide of Saul, Michael isn't going to get laid until he wakes the fuck up and showers, Mr. Whiskers is shedding tears of the lonesome.

[Litmaster]

The 'Hoodie' is... another survivor from the 2nd Tower!!! Hey, does anyone remember what the name of the woman who was in charge of that group? The one who was supposedly a master planner or...

[7oddisdead]

A underground group was one the first things I thought of as the scene was being described. (actually, first thing I thought was a poor man's hotel 23) and while not something I would describe as a...

[Adventureless_Hero]

Her name was CJ. <br />
There are subway's in L.A.? Damn, I feel ignorant. Had I known this, I would have theorized an underground group long ago! So is it possible that if they are using sewers that...

[7oddisdead]

I...being a naive Midwesterner, was under the impression that the majority of the areas near the coast of California are similar to Florida..not many basements...subways ..etc...sewers are kind of a necessity though


Clarification from the Cali people?

[Zombiphobe]

More evidence that it wasn't the Mallers was the location--yep, I also went to Google maps, and saw how close 8th + Grand is to the original Tower. Seems very un-Maller like, especially since they were all going south. Besides, when these trees were planted, the Mallers would have been having a field day pillaging the city. Not like them to think ahead to this degree.

I agree with Litmaster, I don't see the Mallers setting up anything like this. They were looking for better living arrangements and it wouldn't make sense to plant a garden before they secured a new living space.

Of course I could see them laying claim to a garden set up by other survivors.

The subway/Metro theory works for me too. Afterall, there were no car sounds.

[VidjaGamez]

It'd be neat to think that there is some sub-group of survivors utilizing an underground network of tunnels. I don't know though, with how long it took someone to respond, they could have parked a couple blocks away and went to the garden by foot. It could definitely go either way.

Well, either Victor will scare them away or someone is going to recognize Saul and stop before the trigger is pulled, it just doesn't smell like Mallers to me. I wonder if maybe these people were involved with picking over the surrounding area near the Tower that morning.

[Litmaster]

Okay guys... here's some more miscellaneous thoughts and theories about this episode, now that I've gone through it a few times:


Scavenged Bodies at Fallen Tower
- Definitely seems to me that they are making a lot of effort to cover their tracks and not reveal any information that might lead them to be followed, wherever they are going (Colony, etc.). The turned out pockets and absence of maps and useful information indicates that concealing their future plans from others might have been Scratch's main reason for returning to the Tower. The fact that they even took their brass shell casings shows they don't want anyone to know which types of munitions they have. This kind of calculating cover-up job seems like something Durai would order.

- Wherever the Mallers are going, they are intent on it being a secret from all others, including Bill's Zombie tribe (Nik wrote he thinks the hit on the Arena was to prevent the Mallers from being followed).


Zombie Body Collectors
- The fact that zombies have returned to clean up the bodies suggests that Ink and the boys have finished setting up shop over at the hospital, and are now established enough to get that big ol' pile of corpses re-established.

- We still don't know what the deal is with that, right? Is that the zombie version of MREs, or something?


Barracks at Ft. Irwin
- The whole base looked about the same to Michael as the last time he was there (before the zombie outbreak) except for the barracks, which have been turned into a mini-fortress with sandbags, guards, & towers. However, the fact that no one else seems to be within tells me that the compound was designed to keep people in more than out, which would make it more like a prison.

- The smell inside the barracks might suggest that some of the previous evacuees who have been transported here (as some of us were guessing) later turned zombie and were contained within this barracks area. This would explain the heavy fortification and the orders not to leave.

- Are there any other 'inmates' currently in this little barracks-prison? And why did Puck tell them to stay off the 2nd and 3rd floors? What's up there... a morgue??


"Just Because I Don't Put Out"
- This comment from Datu seemed rude, strange and out of character to me. Sounds like he is still bitter about Samantha's death, and seeing Pegs with Michael is bringing out the bile in him.


The Secret Garden
- As several have suggested already, this does not seem like the handiwork of the Mallers, except for the fact that the gate was rigged with an alarm, which does seem to be in the Maller's capability given their technological advances over our Tower members (remember all their radios, etc). But the tree planting would have required the transplanting of several saplings or even mature trees from an orchard some time ago to this hidden spot, which requires long-term vision that I don't think Scratch has. Durai maybe, but if they were going to up and leave south, why would they continue to maintain a garden up north? That doesn't make any sense.

- Here's my theory: this is one of several 'secret gardens' that were planted some time ago by teams from the Other Tower, the one Kalani and Hope were living in before it fell. I went back and listened to Chapter 11-2 (R&R), where Kalani told us how much more advanced that Tower was in terms of security and procedures, mostly due to the master planning of this woman C.J., who Michael said sounded "like one hell of a planner." So perhaps in the early stages of the outbreak, C.J. has some of her convoys go around to orchards and re-plant various gardens, knowing that canned goods were going to run out sooner or later and food would become scarce if they didn't do something. This garden was created by someone with a very long-range vision and the leadership ability to have it carried out. This C.J. is the only person mentioned in the story who seems to fit that profile.



The Identity of Hoodie and the Underground Group
- I have an hunch that Hoodie will turn out to be a girl. This is based only on Saul's mention of her short stature and Kc penchant for giving us the unexpected.

- I don't think Hoodie is a Maller. If she is, then Saul is ass out of luck. It seems more likely that Hoodie is part of a secret group of survivors from C.J.'s tower that has continued to exist in secret ever since their tower was overrun. Back in Ch. 11-2, Kalani did mention that just after their group's big convoy got ambushed and many of their 'best' killed, several members of their group deserted and struck out on their own. Also, it's possible that not everyone in that Tower was killed or captured... we already know that Hope made it out of there alive. And didn't that Sean guy come from there as well?

- As mentioned, it seems likely to me that they've 'gone underground', either by using subway tunnels or sewers, to pop up unawares. The fact that Hoodie has hiking boots and a backpack, and took a few hours to show up, indicates that she came on foot. This would also explain the absence of a vehicle for Saul to follow.

- The presence of an alarm suggests a centralized lair from which someone is monitoring the alarm, or several such alarms. This suggests organization and a group of people, rather than some lone gardener.

- The fact that Hoodie came alone suggests that this group is small, and doesn't have a lot of members to spare.

- If the guy found at the Tower with the 8th and Grand note in his pocket was indeed from this Underground Group, then it seems that the group has existed, in part, through scavenging. Also, that they have concealed their presence from the Tower members for some reason, and perhaps have been monitoring them for some time.


- Prediction: Hoodie will reveal herself as a girl, and will confront Saul and ask him why he is stealing their fruit, etc. Saul will talk Victor down from shooting the girl, who will agree to take them to see her leader, who might very well end up being C.J. herself, who has some secret lair setup in an underground labyrinth. This would be a kick-ass development in the story, in my opinion, because Saul and Vic really need some allies at this point.


That's all I got, folks! Hit me with some rep power if you like any of these thoughts.

[beezball]

...mallers go there to steal goodies...but don't wanna share with the rest of the group...alls I was trying to say...

I was thinking this. I wouldn't put it past Tardust to have found a garden that predated the Z-pocalypse (which it would have to be in order to be fruitful). And then he just didn't tell anyone.

If it were Tardust or someone else already established, it would make for a really interesting retelling of what happened from their perspective. That would also help visualize how they sneaked up on Saul.

Also, Michael is turning into a big pity party douche.

[beezball]

- This comment from Datu seemed rude, strange and out of character to me. Sounds like he is still bitter about Samantha's death, and seeing Pegs with Michael is bringing out the bile in him.

That's a little wild, he was just being smarmy. It was funny and sarcastic and Michael didn't get that or was annoyed, that's why Pegs said what she did.

[looney]

The Vic/Saul pairing couldn't be any worse at scouting if they wore Deadmau5 heads and and tap dancing shoes. Seriously, those dudes don't plan at all. Vic was a scout before meeting up with the tower and he goes out without at least 2 days of food. Saul gets obsessed with things and forgets what is outside of his objective area. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Vic got caught trying to save Saul.

The barracks smelling funny....honestly I've never been in a barracks that didn't smell funny. It's usually a mix of man-ass and urine.

[VidjaGamez]

That's a little wild, he was just being smarmy. It was funny and sarcastic and Michael didn't get that or was annoyed, that's why Pegs said what she did.

I agree! I think he's just in a great mood, they may have found somewhere safe, somewhere good.

[beezball]

I think he's just in a great mood

Exactly, the three are all giddy about the prospect of the new place. While Michael seems to just be focusing on what happened on the tower still, and thus being touchy.

[Grognaurd]

Long day at work. Listened and read forums. Thoughts

I have been partial to Cj. But the most recent mystery woman was Hannah

I like the the other tower group. I like running sewares but without pumping the clean water pipes will also be available. Last year I called this rattenkrieg. War of the rats and thought it would be an exceptional transit method to avoid a hard contact with zombies

I would like to see Skittles again. The stealth is in line, but sweeping the legs does not seem skittles like.

I do not think it was the mallers and scratch that turned out the pockets. The mallers are resource heavy and Scratch does not care enough to check. It would not surprise me if hood did it. That kind of gunfight with helicopters and RPGs would be heard all over the place

Saul knows of skittles but would not recognize skittles from Adam /Eve unless they were cutoff tees. So the only thing that breaks the initiative of the hoodie is a recognition of humanity and subsequent empathy. Alternatively, Victor could get the drop on them. I lean for the former.

A twist on the barracks would be this is where Ft Irwin placed slow turners. We have heard of them, but the closest we have seen is Randy. Michael's arm is all messed up and black and blue had he'll. Tanya has the bandage. Hope is blind, but I think in ep 1 they say she has not always been so. Riley is still messedup from ladt night. The soldiers could be thinking oh its the old my friend is passed out. Not turning into a zombie. If this was My House, you can bet that anyone who (re)enters from the hot zone would be lockedvdown in quarantine for observation.

[7oddisdead]

1:love Arthur posts

2:the garden was within a "construction zone" of sorts, correct? Assuming if we may...that would in some way be tied into the sewer system. This would give easy access to within the fence with no visible way of entrance...the time it took for hoodie person to arrive has me beggining to think more in the direction of hoodie being a solitary caretaker. In my fuzzy logic, if I knew there was a problem at my garden, I would wait long enough for the intruders to leave before I walk up into a large group...

[Hellbringer]

Last point, did anyone else have visions of Forrest Gump when Michael said "And that's all I remember about that"

Yeah, me too... "Me and Peggy goes together like peas and carrots!"

[Ra1th]

I honestly just hope that the hooded man was a maller. I just want to see the story progress in some way or form for Victor and Saul. As it is they're kinda running in place. They're goal is to find the mallers, if this guy was it, then goal solved. I agree with goods, the mallers drag saul off, and Victor follows them to their new base to pull of a rescue.

But my bigger question is with Saul's plan. Trigger the alert and follow the mallers? Just follow them? Can it really be so easy in a post apocalyptic world? You'd have to stay out of sight, and out of hearing distance so that the engine wouldnt be heard, so that's a good distance back. How would you follow them when there's so much distance between the two cars?

I also like the theory about the hooded man being a survivor from the second tower. That would be cool and it would progress the story in that direction. All I know is Saul annoys me because he's impatient and only cares about finding lizzy. I want them together again asap, so he goes back to normal.

Either way, I'd really like to hear from the mallers, because from everything we know, it seems angel, burt and lizzy are still with them.

[Hellbringer]

I do believe the hoodie person is not a maller; it could go either way for me if it's a girl, or a less than average height man.

Man, I got nothing to add to this one... everyone has already hit all the points I thought of. Even the whole Demolition Man-underground-folks theory.

[Walter Mathers]

Aw! I like this forum and the ideas behind the chapters. I've never read one of these after listening to an episode.

1. I totally agree it's not a Maller, I don't believe it's an underground group only because I've never really heard of major subways in Cali but hey I'm a Florida guy so I could be wrong.

2. Why do the Mallers want the girl and to keep her alive? I listen to the pod while working so sometimes I think I might miss parts but was it established why they want her alive? Why after all this time would she still be alive?

3. Datu, am I the only one who hates him? I seriously want him to stop acting like a sad sack or a "Look at me I'm hurt too" really sappy character. I never minded him till what happened at the arena where his girlie died but since then I've wanted him to die and not a heroes death more of a slipped in the bathtub or died "off camera" type death. Hopefully he stops with the negative talk sometime soon. There's just something about whiny characters that get me that's why I can't watch shows with angsty teens.

Great show can't wait for the next one.

[random_highjinx]

I've got this feeling that the Hoodie character is a female and is CJ the tactician from the other tower. Not sure why, but when I was listening, that's what popped up in my brain.

Also, boo for leaving behind Zombie Scissor Kity... BOO I SAY!

[Grognaurd]

Why keep Lizzy alive? Lots. Many for plot options, but to para-quote Saul in chapter 1... We've got to start repopulating, right? Mallers are from a male prison. To each their own, but many will be much more interested in hottie-Lizzy than FuzzyFaceLifer from the cell five gates down.

Repop needs m + f

For fun as long as both are willing, just keep it behind closed doors and not loud enough to frighten my horses

[DeeKay86]

Great theories in this thread!!

Next monday can't come round fast enough!!

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

The hooded figure is Skittles. You heard me.. S.K.I.T.T.L.E.S!! That cat has serious survival skills. I don't think it's beyond his character's growth arch. There's a reason he's been able to hang solo for so long. He did have a weapon the last time we saw him, so that lines up as well.
He's been gone too long and why have him in the story at all if he's not going to play some part in it? Hell, he may even have more intel for Saul and Vic.

Speaking of those two.. F'n Blind leading the blind. Saul is my boy (don't have Ra1th/Angel level mancrush though) and he reminds me of my roomate from my first assignment.. Smart as hell, but Fly by the Pants as you can get and hard headed as hell! Saul has one mission and his biopic approach isn't smart at all. He just wants to be with Lizzie. It doesn't matter if they both die, just as long as he's there.
Victor.. "what,why,how?" that's all we hear from him. Someone said he was a scout.. he wasn't. Vic was set up at a Listening/Observation Post to report movement back to the main area.

I'm also going to take a swing at the lack of brass at the tower.. It make sense to police the brass when you have limited resources. It can be used for reloading. I've been saying this for a year now, Durai is like Shaft! That cat is just too good. He's been ahead of the game since day one. So, ensuring his troops are hip to the logistical nightmares makes complete sense.

"Listen up dumbasses... this isn't some John Woo flick. We will run out of ammunition eventually. Pick up your brass when and if you can, and we'll slow that tide."

[Gobbi]

Hi everyone,
Long time listener, first time poster

I think it will be great if they introduce a new group..perhaps some link to the pumping station (perhaps Micheal has information, why hasn't he explained how he got out of there). Or the ones who left CJ's group after the convoy...or perhaps Marcus's no.2 wasn't killed and now he's found other survivors.

Just wanted to go back to a Raven post from page 2 about Sauls Picc Line. Given the bizarre way of giving him animal antibiotics, Saul should be on Antibiotics for about 7days. There are a whole bunch of problems with A) having the knowledge to place a Picc line properly (it sits just north of the heart...if it's to deep it will cause serious issues) b) having the equipment. C) giving concentrated Antibiotic can be damaging to vessels. D) that it's the right antibiotic for that infection ...
I am willing to assume Sauls mom has the technique from being a Vet, and she got lucky with the ABx
But Saul is out there jumping around in the dirt and almost had his Picc fall out he should be still suffering from his infection (fatigue, fevers, low appetite, malaise). But I think the story must go on instead of getting bogged down in details ( I'm just getting all preachy bout it)

As for the Z's coming back to harvest the dead...maybe the big dust cloud affected the sense of smell.

And yes LA does have a subway...according to google...there's a map out there if anyone is smart enough to layer them

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Man, I forgot to comment on two things:

The Barracks smell(we have Dorms in the AF... we're special like that). Yah, from what I remember from my time at Ft. Dix.. they do have a distinct smell. Like washed ass, your sleeping grandfather, hot boots and floor cleaner.

The bodies being picked up: Not a new development. They've been collecting their dead since the first encounter

[Lvmetndr]

Since subways have been confirmed. I wouldn't recommend using them as ways of getting around underground since its a "breeding" ground for Z's. If they are low on food, eating the mice that are always there might be beneficial to them. We have to assume sewers are okay to travel and easier to booby-trap in case there are Z's coming your way. I only mention not subways because of this flick I saw, "Stag Night". It is possible to have a "rogue" group of Z's lying about somewhere in the city...

I do like the theory that if the Z's were smarter and more organized they would use the sewers and subway lines to get the jump on humans by using the behemoths to force them into an area where there are man holes to come out of. Just an Idea...

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

we talked about those a few months back. Dumbest idea of dumbe ideas... and just plain suicidal. Dark, full of corners, lack of places to exit quickly, poor footing, really bad place to fire a weapon... the list goes on and on..

[Grognaurd]

the brass...

Ammo will run out and brass can be reloaded as Crowbar says. But, with what? Ammo is more common than smokeless powder and lead. Old black powder could be made, but is a lot harder than it looks. It is not just add some charcoal to some saltpetre and some sulfer pour in into a piece of bamboo and knock the Gorn on his ass.

The part that most forget is grain size. The finer the grind the better the burn. So as a scavenger I might like some for noise or light flash makers not as a mass driver. Even empty they ca be usefull. There are a lot of things that go bump in the night, but hollow brass on hollow brass or on a hard surface is as good as any windchime and very distinctive. The flashbang trap is a dead giveaway, but scattering brass, empty bottles or cans or whatever may not actually alert the intruder. It is more likely that these are refuse from the outbreak as it is a communication device.

Going back to Subway vs. water pipes. The subway will have many more walking dead than the water-ways. But, a case could be made that it could be cleared and relatively secure with limited access points. But, another advantage of the sewers is "hmmm.... It has not rained in more than a week. Where is that water running off from? It could provide information on a waterspring and it will also alert me to survivors trying to hold onto the past. All of Tower's used water had to go somewhere...

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

the brass...

Ammo will run out and brass can be reloaded as Crowbar says. But, with what? Ammo is more common than smokeless powder and lead. Old black powder could be made, but is a lot harder than it looks. It is not just add some charcoal to some saltpetre and some sulfer pour in into a piece of bamboo and knock the Gorn on his ass.

The part that most forget is grain size. The finer the grind the better the burn. So as a scavenger I might like some for noise or light flash makers not as a mass driver. Even empty they ca be usefull. There are a lot of things that go bump in the night, but hollow brass on hollow brass or on a hard surface is as good as any windchime and very distinctive. The flashbang trap is a dead giveaway, but scattering brass, empty bottles or cans or whatever may not actually alert the intruder. It is more likely that these are refuse from the outbreak as it is a communication device.

Going back to Subway vs. water pipes. The subway will have many more walking dead than the water-ways. But, a case could be made that it could be cleared and relatively secure with limited access points. But, another advantage of the sewers is "hmmm.... It has not rained in more than a week. Where is that water running off from? It could provide information on a waterspring and it will also alert me to survivors trying to hold onto the past. All of Tower's used water had to go somewhere...


The only thing about clearing the sewers.. you'd have to do it over and over and over again every time you went down, unless you had patrols set up and they do't have the manpower. "That's like clearing the Nile of Crocs....and saying "it's ok to go swimming. we cleared this part yesterday."

[looney]

An LP/OP is a scout. Small team, forward of an element, if compromised they break contact to a larger force. That's a scout. My point was he's ill prepared and acting like he's never been out in a small team before, which we know is false. Regardless of if he was stationed at a hardstand location or out on recon patrols he knows better than to not have food and water. He's right under Datu as my least favorite person right now.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Okay, can it be confirmed either way if Saul and Victor saw one person or two? I know Saul says he a lot, singular, but then Saul and Victor also switch between saying they which can be plural or used kinda slangy to refer to someone of unknown sex or numbers.

It sounds like Victor and Saul see only the one person dressed in a black hoodie, hiking boots, etc, but my buddy is convinced they saw two people inspecting the gate.

[Grognaurd]

I will accept that it is not a sure thing, but a more apt destription would be we cleared this tributary and the dam is in place. Or shark nets at a beach.

Oh, and if you did nto get it, my earlier joke

The 17s were an LA gang in Ex-Heroes and Boyle Heights Boys were in World War Z.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I bet Hoodie is Britt. She's finally going to get her role in WA. She and Pete have been setting up these secret orchards that he keeps fed with his endless supply of water. They have a bad ass lair in the sewers with it's own power supply and copies of various Zelda games for each console generation. She spares Sauls life because he has a DS that happens to have a copy of Spirit Tracks in it.

Mystery of the Hoodie solved!

[Joe]

I think Saul needs to slow down before he gets himself and others killed.

[dontkillburt]

I think Saul needs to slow down before he gets himself and others killed.

Yes, Saul has been pretty good at sacrificing the safety of others to satisfy his own wants. In season 1 he persuades Lizzy and Burt to drive to his apartment to rescue his "girl" Lady, who turns out to be a bitch. In season 2, he single-handedly (and successfully) jeopardizes the entire Tower with his hair-brain "Peg-less swap" at the golf course...to, once again, save his bitch...this time Lizzy. Now we begin season 3, with him acting like a bitch, with Vicky. Hopefully a hoodied Britt won't take him out with a headshot.

What till we find out Mr. Hoodie is a Ms. Hoodie. Saul will be somebody's bitch, for sure.

[IamPaul]

Maybe the hoodie is Burt? They did mention the holster. Maybe Burt somehow got away or is now 'working' with the mallers. Far-fetched I know.

[VidjaGamez]

Okay, can it be confirmed either way if Saul and Victor saw one person or two? I know Saul says he a lot, singular, but then Saul and Victor also switch between saying they which can be plural or used kinda slangy to refer to someone of unknown sex or numbers.

It sounds like Victor and Saul see only the one person dressed in a black hoodie, hiking boots, etc, but my buddy is convinced they saw two people inspecting the gate.

They only see one person and only one person confronts Saul, the way Saul explained it can easily be confused as two people confronting him though. But what really caught my ear is that he noticed the person out of the corner of his eye and then miraculously he falls backwards. What the heck could have done that? Maybe they had a trap set to close around his feet and pull him out from under himself?

[7oddisdead]

They only see one person and only one person confronts Saul, the way Saul explained it can easily be confused as two people confronting him though. But what really caught my ear is that he noticed the person out of the corner of his eye and then miraculously he falls backwards. What the heck could have done that? Maybe they had a trap set to close around his feet and pull him out from under himself?

the way i took the scene description...hoodie person swept his legs out from under him with the baton. he/she was hiding under a car..perfect position for a leg sweep attack

[itsallgoodie]

Only Steve Jobs would have had the vision to create the garden. Just sayin'.

[Adventureless_Hero]

the way i took the scene description...hoodie person swept his legs out from under him with the baton. he/she was hiding under a car..perfect position for a leg sweep attack
It was an attack from the Cobra Kai Karate Dojo!


http://www.naoshiyamauchi.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/sweep.jpg

[DeeKay86]

It was an attack from the Cobra Kai Karate Dojo!


http://www.naoshiyamauchi.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/sweep.jpg


LoL!!!!!

[Raven]

Great now I have No more kings in my head ....thanks A LOT

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

An LP/OP is a scout. Small team, forward of an element, if compromised they break contact to a larger force. That's a scout. My point was he's ill prepared and acting like he's never been out in a small team before, which we know is false. Regardless of if he was stationed at a hardstand location or out on recon patrols he knows better than to not have food and water. He's right under Datu as my least favorite person right now.


I see what you're saying, but Vic and his buddy were in static posts. They didn't venture outside of that post. It wasn't a very aggressive position. Sit and report vs "scout" the land like Recon.
He may be a piss poor planner if the logistical provisions were set ahead of the rotations... I dunno.

[reaper239]

I'm also going to take a swing at the lack of brass at the tower.. It make sense to police the brass when you have limited resources. It can be used for reloading. I've been saying this for a year now, Durai is like Shaft! That cat is just too good. He's been ahead of the game since day one. So, ensuring his troops are hip to the logistical nightmares makes complete sense.

"Listen up dumbasses... this isn't some John Woo flick. We will run out of ammunition eventually. Pick up your brass when and if you can, and we'll slow that tide."

dude, i said the same thing like, forever ago (ok, seems like forever) and everyone said i was crazy :tinfoil: i said that if i were michael i would tell everyone to make sure to police their brass when possible and everyone was all like, "oh, you're gonna have people pick up casings when the zombies are coming?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! that's rediculous, you're rediculous, that'd never work, that's silly." well booyah. i said it months ago that it was a good idea, and that burt would have the skill set to reload, and now we have someone else saying that's it's not only wise, but practical. :p :nyanr::nyanr::nyanr::nyan:

[reaper239]

I see what you're saying, but Vic and his buddy were in static posts. They didn't venture outside of that post. It wasn't a very aggressive position. Sit and report vs "scout" the land like Recon.
He may be a piss poor planner if the logistical provisions were set ahead of the rotations... I dunno.

vic wasn't in the military was he? and we all know that senior shot-in-the-bed (the former leader of the colony, i can't remember his name) wasn't actually in the military. the military teaches from centuries of experience through history, so at some point, someone figured out that scouts needed to have an adequate emergency food supply, and made a note to tell that to future scouts. anyone who has neither studied military history, nor had the benefit of military training runs a serious risk of not knowing that. plus when you've got a whole camp following some jackass who's faking it harder than a politician (poli is latin for many, ticks are blood sucking insects, politics: many blood sucking insects), you run into some problems.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

dude, i said the same thing like, forever ago (ok, seems like forever) and everyone said i was crazy :tinfoil: i said that if i were michael i would tell everyone to make sure to police their brass when possible and everyone was all like, "oh, you're gonna have people pick up casings when the zombies are coming?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! that's rediculous, you're rediculous, that'd never work, that's silly." well booyah. i said it months ago that it was a good idea, and that burt would have the skill set to reload, and now we have someone else saying that's it's not only wise, but practical. :p :nyanr::nyanr::nyanr::nyan:

That convo about the brass was during the Pippen murder. There was no brass then and I was saying that a killer isn't going to have the time to police his/her brass in a room and after an assassination. I also think we went on about needing the proper equipment.
Burt may have had such stuff at his spot, but I'm going out on a limb and will say that "that stuff was jacked too" during the Mallers sweeps.
They have the manpower to and probably a few trained people to do it.

[reaper239]

That convo about the brass was during the Pippen murder. There was no brass then and I was saying that a killer isn't going to have the time to police his/her brass in a room and after an assassination. I also think we went on about needing the proper equipment.
Burt may have had such stuff at his spot, but I'm going out on a limb and will say that "that stuff was jacked too" during the Mallers sweeps.
They have the manpower to and probably a few trained people to do it.

oh yeah, i think that was the problem. either way, i'm NOT CRAZY! :mad::tinfoil:

[Grognaurd]

Let's not be too hard on Victor. He flees the colony at night and arrives at the tower the next morning. A little more than 24 hours later he drives Pegs to the JGG. He cleans the inside of the chopper and stands post for a couple of hours as they get to the secon' choppa. An hour after that he is in the hummer with the crew to save lizzy. Comes back to the tower in the heat of the engagement. The tower collapses and he retreats with Saul.

Not a lot of time to resupply.

At some point Victor says he was recon for the colony. But it is unclear if it was a listening post or patrol

[reaper239]

btw, the title has been bugging me, not knowing who overcomes, but i think i figured it out:

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkn3cqfx3U1qzwokuo1_500.png

and just so you know, if you mess with me

http://artandhistory.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/trump.jpg

[looney]

It isn't a matter of training or military experience. It's a matter of common sense. If I know I'm away from my unit for any period of time, I will have food for myself for more than the time I'm expected to be away. Sure, my experience level helps me decide the most effective way to carry that food and how to get the most of out the least amount, but he should be able to figure out to bring some food. Anyone who has been deployed can tell you complacency kills. I understand that it was a whirlwind of action for him from leaving the colony to where they're at now, but the dude can't think ahead. He seems like he's always asking questions and never really has any ideas.

Here's my problem with picking up brass to reload. If it's military, it's much harder to reload with civilian equipment. Even if it's not, it's still a time consuming process. I get being short on ammo, but there are better options than trying to set up a reloading station, making sure your loads are reliable and somewhat accurate, and taking the time to reload. You're less likely to find more powder, primers, and bullets than you are boxes of ammo. I'd say they policed up their brass to hide caliber/numbers more than to reload.

[reaper239]

i don't know about it being a matter of common sense, until i started reading on military history and what-not, it had never really crossed my mind. now that i am switching my mentality to a preparedness mindset and since i've started reading on military tactics it has occured to me and i've begun taking steps to ensure that i'm prepared for almost any eventuality, but before that, i hadn't considered it. ignorance is bliss after all.

regarding reloading, i disagree a little. i'll give you that reloading isn't easy, and that it's time consuming, but when people buy reloading materials they usually buy in bulk so if you could find the right supplies you could potentially have a lot to work with. if they're using common calibers that makes it even easier. plus, do you really think that scratch's band of mallers would have the presence of mind to want to pick up their brass for strategic reasons? also, the only people they were really worried about are gone: those in the tower would be presumed dead, while those in da choppa would be presumed to not be coming back. one more thing, they were on their way out of the area, they were leaving that part of town, so with the tower gone this poses two questions: who are they hiding their numbers from, and why hide them when that area's no longer your concern? if anything, i'd spread the brass out and make it look like there were more of us. the only reason i can see for collecting the brass is to pad their ammo count. would you rather spend a few hours reloading all the brass you shot or would you rather go out short?

[Ra1th]

It isn't a matter of training or military experience. It's a matter of common sense. If I know I'm away from my unit for any period of time, I will have food for myself for more than the time I'm expected to be away. Sure, my experience level helps me decide the most effective way to carry that food and how to get the most of out the least amount, but he should be able to figure out to bring some food. Anyone who has been deployed can tell you complacency kills. I understand that it was a whirlwind of action for him from leaving the colony to where they're at now, but the dude can't think ahead. He seems like he's always asking questions and never really has any ideas.


But with victor, the last chance he had to resupply was at the tower before leaving to the air port with pegs. After that he was on the assault team at the peg-less swap, and immediately after that, he was back at the tower with the hummer and defending against the mallers. So the whole time, he was depending on the hummer. I'm sure he had supplies , but it was all probably in the hummer. So when that got taken out the way it did, it's more than likely that all he was able to grab was his rifle, leaving the food and supplies behind because he was in the middle of a warzone?

[reaper239]

they went back to the hummer. if his supplies were kept in a backpack it would be likely that that would be intact. plus, saul was able to maintain positive control on his supplies. also, the way they were talking was as if victor didn't pack anything, you know the whole "piss poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine."

[Leedo2502]

It isn't a matter of training or military experience. It's a matter of common sense. If I know I'm away from my unit for any period of time, I will have food for myself for more than the time I'm expected to be away. Sure, my experience level helps me decide the most effective way to carry that food and how to get the most of out the least amount, but he should be able to figure out to bring some food. Anyone who has been deployed can tell you complacency kills. I understand that it was a whirlwind of action for him from leaving the colony to where they're at now, but the dude can't think ahead. He seems like he's always asking questions and never really has any ideas.

Here's my problem with picking up brass to reload. If it's military, it's much harder to reload with civilian equipment. Even if it's not, it's still a time consuming process. I get being short on ammo, but there are better options than trying to set up a reloading station, making sure your loads are reliable and somewhat accurate, and taking the time to reload. You're less likely to find more powder, primers, and bullets than you are boxes of ammo. I'd say they policed up their brass to hide caliber/numbers more than to reload.

I don't think it's so much that the mallers are picking up the brass but that maybe the zombies are. I don't see the mallers setting up a re-loading operation unless they found a huge ammount of primers and powder and I can't see them burning the calories to hide what type and caliber rounds they are firing, what's the benifit to them in the long run? I think that this might be a yet-to-be-released plot point in the story... or just a way for KC to say "Shits been stripped bare"

[Leedo2502]

Barracks at Ft. Irwin
- The whole base looked about the same to Michael as the last time he was there (before the zombie outbreak) except for the barracks, which have been turned into a mini-fortress with sandbags, guards, & towers. However, the fact that no one else seems to be within tells me that the compound was designed to keep people in more than out, which would make it more like a prison.

- The smell inside the barracks might suggest that some of the previous evacuees who have been transported here (as some of us were guessing) later turned zombie and were contained within this barracks area. This would explain the heavy fortification and the orders not to leave.

- Are there any other 'inmates' currently in this little barracks-prison? And why did Puck tell them to stay off the 2nd and 3rd floors? What's up there... a morgue??



Don't read too much into the smell thing... Barraks on a good day smell like a gym and on a bad day (when we all get back from the field) they smell like feet ass and mildew. I got to go back and listen again but the whole thing sounded like a defenseive perimiter (the guns and towers were pointing out not in).
And the orders to stay in the barraks seem legit as well, you don't want some guys that just got there wandering around like they own the place, and lets face it Mike was being a dick to Puck.

I of course am being a little biased, I want Irwin to be the safe haven it seems (maybe with a little drama with the COL. who we have yet to meet) and not be like how the military is treated in alot of the zombie movies and books, either incompetent or blood thirsty murderers and rapists.

[Ra1th]

they went back to the hummer. if his supplies were kept in a backpack it would be likely that that would be intact. plus, saul was able to maintain positive control on his supplies. also, the way they were talking was as if victor didn't pack anything, you know the whole "piss poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine."

They said that the mallers searched and took everything of use though. And if that's the case, then they would have searched the hummer and taken any supplies that was in it. As for how saul managed to get his pack and not victor. Saul was on the turret and vic was driving so saul was closer to the supplies he could have grabbed a pack much easier than vic could have from the drivers seat.

[looney]

They said that the mallers searched and took everything of use though. And if that's the case, then they would have searched the hummer and taken any supplies that was in it. As for how saul managed to get his pack and not victor. Saul was on the turret and vic was driving so saul was closer to the supplies he could have grabbed a pack much easier than vic could have from the drivers seat.

Have you been in a humvee before? The best place to put an assault pack is the part of the truck where the radio rack usually goes. If that was installed, then leaning your assault pack up against the radio rack is your next best bet. If you're a gunner on a truck, you have no way of grabbing a pack in a hurry. You can't hang it up top, you'll lose it. It's much harder to get down and grab something from the turret than it is to grab something from the drivers seat. I don't remember if they said it was a hardshell or softshell humvee, but either way, you're not going to put your packs on the outside unless you absolutely have to. If they had them in the back somewhere other than the trunk on a hardshell, Victor would still be able to get to them quicker. There isn't a whole lot of room in the turret at all, especially with an M2 up top, so Victor could probably grab his assault pack faster from the back anyway. Short of their stuff being in the trunk, I don't see Victor being slower than Saul. I think he's just a dummy when it comes to surviving and has gotten pretty lucky. If it wasn't for Saul, Vicky would be following around Mr. Whiskers, asking "huh? what? why?" to a cat.

[reaper239]

They said that the mallers searched and took everything of use though. And if that's the case, then they would have searched the hummer and taken any supplies that was in it. As for how saul managed to get his pack and not victor. Saul was on the turret and vic was driving so saul was closer to the supplies he could have grabbed a pack much easier than vic could have from the drivers seat.

they didn't take the m2 and ammo. even if the mallers knew enough to figure out it was broken (since it was obviously working well enough to shoot a behemoth) they must have mechanics or people with mechanical skills of some kind. if i was them, and i had vehicles (as i kind of assume they do) i would take it on the off chance it could be fixed and would then be a powerful weapon.

[pokoey13]

I agree with the smell and the perimeter thing but the restriction from the 2nd and 3rd floor is a bit odd.

Don't read too much into the smell thing... Barraks on a good day smell like a gym and on a bad day (when we all get back from the field) they smell like feet ass and mildew. I got to go back and listen again but the whole thing sounded like a defenseive perimiter (the guns and towers were pointing out not in).
And the orders to stay in the barraks seem legit as well, you don't want some guys that just got there wandering around like they own the place, and lets face it Mike was being a dick to Puck.

I of course am being a little biased, I want Irwin to be the safe haven it seems (maybe with a little drama with the COL. who we have yet to meet) and not be like how the military is treated in alot of the zombie movies and books, either incompetent or blood thirsty murderers and rapists.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I'm going to side with the folks saying Victor didn't have an opportunity to prepare. Not that it matters that much since Saul and he are in the shit now.

Victor was sent out on what was supposed to be a quick mission. Instead while out in the field objectives were added. You could say "he should have" but the fact is that he can't always carry a shit ton of supplies every fucking time he goes out. Sure Saul did, but look at what Saul's objectives were. He had every intention of going on a hunt for Lizzie. He had no idea how long it would take and so HE packed supplies. Saul knew the bird could get fixed and if they hadn't of found Lizzie by then that he was going to stay behind.

Anywho, it seems a stupid thing to debate seeing as how Saul is the reason all this shit went down. He is my favorite character but the little fucker is playing the blame game. That shit he was spewing at Victor should have been directed at himself.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Love'n the back and forth with Looney, Leedo and Reaper... Hoooah!
I'm still gonna go with the theory that the Mallers are picking up brass for reloading. It doesn't have to be a station. They simply have to save it until they get where they need to get.
Looney has missed a lot of the convo's about what the Mallers have been doing since Scratch saved them and how they covered so much territory..
Remember, they've raided every damn thing from LAX to the Arena. Multiple police stations, Burt's shop, the Guard Armory and Lord knows what else. Durai telling them to find a place that has the powder They're bound to have people that know how to reload. Having a few gunsmiths among the regulars or the slaves seems very plausible. Hell, they may even have a ton of books from the prison library that any mechanical minded person can read and do.
I'm pretty sure Datu could learn to reload with the right equipment and a manual.

[reaper239]

keep in mind also though, it's LA. LA is very liberal, and liberals tend to lean towards anti-gun. yes i think the supplies they need are somewhere in LA but i don't know in what amounts.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Love'n the back and forth with Looney, Leedo and Reaper... Hoooah!
I'm still gonna go with the theory that the Mallers are picking up brass for reloading. It doesn't have to be a station. They simply have to save it until they get where they need to get.
Looney has missed a lot of the convo's about what the Mallers have been doing since Scratch saved them and how they covered so much territory..
Remember, they've raided every damn thing from LAX to the Arena. Multiple police stations, Burt's shop, the Guard Armory and Lord knows what else. Durai telling them to find a place that has the powder They're bound to have people that know how to reload. Having a few gunsmiths among the regulars or the slaves seems very plausible. Hell, they may even have a ton of books from the prison library that any mechanical minded person can read and do.
I'm pretty sure Datu could learn to reload with the right equipment and a manual.

Yeah, my pop taught himself to reload. Granted he now has a rifle with a ruined breech (there is an impression of the shell on the inside) but for the most part he does it well, I think. I mean if when I fire it and it goes BANG instead of BOOM! then that's a sign of success. lol
If a small, shitty town like Laredo has the necessary good to reload, I have no doubt L.A. would.

New theory: the brass is being melted down and used to make zombie-proof armor! Yeah, now that's what their doing with it!

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

keep in mind also though, it's LA. LA is very liberal, and liberals tend to lean towards anti-gun. yes i think the supplies they need are somewhere in LA but i don't know in what amounts.


California allows weapons. So what if it needs a "loaded" meter or you can't have more than 10 round mags! Shit still goes bang and people still drop. I don't remember the 2nd amendment saying you have the right to bear arms with a 50 round drum. LOL.

So, there will still be places there to get what they need to do reloads, which doesn't have anything to do with weapon types.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Yeah, my pop taught himself to reload. Granted he now has a rifle with a ruined breech (there is an impression of the shell on the inside) but for the most part he does it well, I think. I mean if when I fire it and it goes BANG instead of BOOM! then that's a sign of success. lol
If a small, shitty town like Laredo has the necessary good to reload, I have no doubt L.A. would.

New theory: the brass is being melted down and used to make zombie-proof armor! Yeah, now that's what their doing with it!

I have read a few articles where people have trouble with reloads. Finicky guns will have problems with them. Like Shirley probably wouldn't do well with them, while Burt's .357 would spit em out like crazy and ask for more.

Now, the brass armor thing is pushing it. LOL. You'd REALLY need a serious blacksmith, equipment aka forge and molds, and the skill set. What? You think they captured Tony Stark or something? ahhhahah

[reaper239]

California allows weapons. So what if it needs a "loaded" meter or you can't have more than 10 round mags! Shit still goes bang and people still drop. I don't remember the 2nd amendment saying you have the right to bear arms with a 50 round drum. LOL.

So, there will still be places there to get what they need to do reloads, which doesn't have anything to do with weapon types.

i don't remember it saying you don't have the right to bear arms with a 50 round drum. ;) i didn't say they didn't have guns, i said they have a lot of anti-gun politicians who are hell bent on making it so difficult to own a gun that most people won't want to. like DC, most law abiding citizens don't own guns in DC because it is so blasted hard to get one. btw (in my best sheldon cooper (big bang theory) voice), the criminals are the ones killing people, so i would wager a guess that their guns have neither a "loaded meter" nor are relegated to ten round mags. ;)

also, i'm listening to something right now that's making it feel like there is static at the base of my hair folicls (<-can't spell). very strange sounds. (no it's not something political as i know some of you were thinking :tinfoil:)

[looney]

In regards to Victor and his short mission, here is a personal story from my first time in Iraq. I was in a 3 man sniper team in an Infantry company, stationed in one of the worst cities in the country at the time. We got called and told we need to support a brigade level mission in Mosul with a platoon, our sniper team, and our headquarters element. The mission would take 12 hours and it was just escorting engineer and fuel assets around the city to other companies that were fighting to take Mosul back from the insurgents. We had about 10 minutes to get ready (our gear was always ready to go, we just packed different things in our assault packs depending on the mission) and get in the trucks to get to Mosul. That 12 hour mission turned in to a 78 hour firefight. My team had enough food for 3 days per person that we carried in our packs, because we always left it there. Granted, we didn't have the time to eat, and went three days without sleep or food, but still we had the food. Being prepared doesn't take much more than saying "this pack stays with me, just like my weapon does".

As far as reloading goes, I'm not an expert but I do reload my pistol rounds. If they have books and equipment, the mallers could easily reload ammo. If they're just trying different loads to see what works, that's a lot of damaged guns. Along with that, you could easily seriously injure or kill someone by loading with the wrong powder in a rifle round. I'm actually really excited to find out why the brass was gathered up. It's an interesting twist after the huge tower battle.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Shocker: There is a behemoth zombie out there that collects brass because it's shiny and pretty. He puts the shells on a thread and wears them like necklaces. The sound of his approach is like that of a 1,000 rounds jingling.

In regards to Victor, we should then be upset with every single character in this story for not being prepared. I'm upset with myself for not having a pack at home next to my pistol.

Anyway, I'm focusing on something else. This Victor not being prepared is beginning to get like that Michael/Burt Alpha male conversation. I am wondering about those choppers at Ft. Irwin. Does anyone know what kind they are? Like are they transport or attack helicopters? They aren't those rock ass Apache choppers, are they?!

[looney]

I don't remember ever seeing an Apache when I was in NTC. Usually Blackhawks and Chinooks, since we used those for infil/exfil during our rotation. I've seen some Russian birds there too, but that was pre-Iraq war and they were used for training. I know when we trained with Special Forces, they used Kiowa Warriors and Little Birds, but those were organic to those units and weren't stationed at Irwin. No telling what they were, but that's what I remember from my rotations there.

[Cabbage Patch]

I am wondering about those choppers at Ft. Irwin. Does anyone know what kind they are? Like are they transport or attack helicopters? They aren't those rock ass Apache choppers, are they?!

The only helicopters stationed at Fort Irwin at the time of the Zombie outbreak were UH-1 Hueys. There was a medevac unit, an OPFOR aviation unit equipped with Hueys modified to look like Soviet Hinds, and an OPs Group support flight. Since then the medevacs have been replaced with LUH-72 Lakotas and the other UH-1 may have been replaced as well.

Whenever a training unit comes through the NTC they bring their own helicopters. The biggest rotation I ever saw featured a combat aviation brigade that brought about 50 helicopters, over 30 of which were Apache gunships. So there could be gunships on the base now, but there is no guarantee.

[Grognaurd]

As they say in Skyrim, Whoa whoa whoa, watche the magic... <br />
<br />
Replace magic with gun politics. <br />
<br />
it is not something we can solve here. it is a very charged issue and it usually just results in...

[pokoey13]

The only helicopters stationed at Fort Irwin at the time of the Zombie outbreak were UH-1 Hueys. There was a medevac unit, an OPFOR aviation unit equipped whose Hueys modified to look like Soviet Hinds, and an OPs Group support flight. Since then the medevacs have been replaced with LUH-72 Lakotas and the other UH-1 may have been replaced as well.

Whenever a training unit comes through the NTC they bring their own helicopters. The biggest rotation I ever saw featured a combat aviation brigade that brought about 50 helicopters, over 30 of which were Apache gunships. So there could be gunships on the base now, but there is no guarantee.

about the helo's an Apache wouldn't really be of much help unless the survivors had found another hive or if there was a large group of behemoths In one spot taking them on missions otherwise would be a waste of fuel. A Huey on the other hand would be helpful for quick in and out missions.

[Eviebae]

Too...much...ammo...talk...eyes...glazing...over.. ...

[looney]

Too...much...ammo...talk...eyes...glazing...over.. ...

Everytime I start talking about ammo or scouting or being a sniper or.....snore......I feel the same way. No matter how any of us see it, KC is going to make an entertaining and amazing story out of what he sees is reality. As much as I love this forum and finally got back to it, that is reality. Shit I'm drunk.

[reaper239]

In regards to Victor and his short mission, here is a personal story from my first time in Iraq. I was in a 3 man sniper team in an Infantry company, stationed in one of the worst cities in the country at the time. We got called and told we need to support a brigade level mission in Mosul with a platoon, our sniper team, and our headquarters element. The mission would take 12 hours and it was just escorting engineer and fuel assets around the city to other companies that were fighting to take Mosul back from the insurgents. We had about 10 minutes to get ready (our gear was always ready to go, we just packed different things in our assault packs depending on the mission) and get in the trucks to get to Mosul. That 12 hour mission turned in to a 78 hour firefight. My team had enough food for 3 days per person that we carried in our packs, because we always left it there. Granted, we didn't have the time to eat, and went three days without sleep or food, but still we had the food. Being prepared doesn't take much more than saying "this pack stays with me, just like my weapon does".

As far as reloading goes, I'm not an expert but I do reload my pistol rounds. If they have books and equipment, the mallers could easily reload ammo. If they're just trying different loads to see what works, that's a lot of damaged guns. Along with that, you could easily seriously injure or kill someone by loading with the wrong powder in a rifle round. I'm actually really excited to find out why the brass was gathered up. It's an interesting twist after the huge tower battle.

i don't really think the mallers care about injuring their own, if scratch or durai say "shoot this and see what happens" they'll do. i do not, however, think that durai and scratch would be risking their guns.

[Eviebae]

Everytime I start talking about ammo or scouting or being a sniper or.....snore......I feel the same way. No matter how any of us see it, KC is going to make an entertaining and amazing story out of what he sees is reality. As much as I love this forum and finally got back to it, that is reality. Shit I'm drunk.

I always say that there are two types of story tellers, the ones that cheerfully bend the truth to tell a good story, and the ones that make the truth entertaining. KC strikes me as more of the latter.

[timberwoof]

Hoody person could be somebody associated with law enforcement. The tactical holster , movements, and the fact he/she was using a baton. That's just my opinion.

[I'm also alive]

I think the hooded man/women is not a mauler as i can see this being to convient for saul to be reunited with lizzy. the hooded person could be a member of the other tower, a run away slave from the maulers, a deserter from the maulers, a member of a new group of survivers or maybe even skittles :D

[looney]

Hoody person could be somebody associated with law enforcement. The tactical holster , movements, and the fact he/she was using a baton. That's just my opinion.

Good points about the equipment being a LE officer. I'm not sure I agree with you, but I like the way you think. As an aside, I hate thigh holsters for pistols. I'm not a fan of having anything on my legs in any kind of a tactical environment. I don't like the theory that it's Skittles. He seems like he places the avoidance game much better than our hooded figure.

[clem131]

I love this forum, being a total ignorant on firearms I would have never figured all this stuff about reloading and brass. My best guess at my first listening of the episode was "What, they are trying to put a band together?" You know, to play the official Mallers anthem on the way to battles.

[reaper239]

i wasn't bringing it up to start a flame war, i was bringing it up because gun control laws effect the availability of guns and ammo. for instance, there is one gun shop in DC, for all of DC because...

[looney]

I love this forum, being a total ignorant on firearms I would have never figured all this stuff about reloading and brass. My best guess at my first listening of the episode was "What, they are trying to put a band together?" You know, to play the official Mallers anthem on the way to battles.

They have their own version of John Phillip Souza to write some incredible marches. Cause everyone knows you can't go in to battle without a horn section.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

It's Skittles dammit! Skittles! Skittles! Skittles! *stomps feet*

[Grognaurd]

I listened again on the way in to work. Did I hear two gunshots from a distance? Maybe I heard wrong, or maybe the board is all abuzz and I missed it. If the shots were from Saul's perspective, they are a ways away. Not at him. They could be fired near Saul from Victor's perspective, but I do not think at Saul. No way I would sweep the leg and then shoot if I had the initiative.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I listened again on the way in to work. Did I hear two gunshots from a distance? Maybe I heard wrong, or maybe the board is all abuzz and I missed it. If the shots were from Saul's perspective, they are a ways away. Not at him. They could be fired near Saul from Victor's perspective, but I do not think at Saul. No way I would sweep the leg and then shoot if I had the initiative.

He/She came from under the car, so the angle to shoot was crappy. Target down.. head shot vs shoot em in the ankle. LOL

[Grognaurd]

Maybe, but my guess is that the person went under the car to setup the sweep. I'd post up somewhere else. I had a misfire underneath a car. Let's just say maneuverability options are pretty limited. It did not end well. But, I do not fit under cars very well. Someone smaller might not those issues. lol

[Willy Beamen]

Lord of the Flies sheds light on this whole monkey zombie mess...all these groups are engaged in petty little cat fights with each other and soon some benevolent and highly sophisticated beings (like in Childhood's End or like in Lord of the Flies :)) are going to descend and either save everyone or knock some sense in everyone.
"Why the hell are you fighting each other, we have to save HUMANITY?! Start working together damn it!"
And then when all the survivors realize that all their fighting and squabbling was childish and a huge waste of time and resources they will hold hands, sing, and tackle the real problem...the bloody ZOMBIES.
I think Victor likes the book because he recognizes the fruitlessness of all this fighting between groups.
Or maybe he just thinks that their best chance for survival is to find a little island and go all Swiss Family with monkey butlers and seashell telephones.

[Blues_127]

i wasn't bringing it up to start a flame war, i was bringing it up because gun control laws effect the availability of guns and ammo. for instance, there is one gun shop in DC, for all of DC because of strict legislation, right or wrong is irrelevant, it's a fact. yet there are places where gun shops are everywhere, and by extension, so is ammo. i know of a handful of gun shops in and around baltimore as opposed to, say, atlanta because of the difference in georgia and maryland gun laws. now, one more important aspect is that in some states, gun laws vary by county, and even city. in ny there are certain gun laws but in nyc there are much stricter gun laws. there is a county in cali that has switched it's CCW permitting legislation from may issue to shall issue. now i'm not familiar with LA gun laws, but it is a very socially liberal city, and if it's anything like other liberal cities i know, they will have strict gun control laws. now i can argue the merits of gun control al day but i agree that this is neither the time nor the place. My theory has always been that gangs and mobsters would survive Z-day better than the average citizen since they do not follow the local laws. or maybe they would be too busy with 'kill shot' tactics and would waste thier own :) Down south rumor has it the KKK & Nazi's have huge weopons caches near major cities... possibilities are endless....

[nikvoodoo]

My theory has always been that gangs and mobsters would survive Z-day better than the average citizen since they do not follow the local laws. or maybe they would be too busy with 'kill shot' tactics and would waste thier own :) Down south rumor has it the KKK & Nazi's have huge weopons caches near major cities... possibilities are endless....

Crime Bosses might survive, but the lower structure of the Mafia/organized crime would most likely fail because they would be more likely to give in to looting and grabbing up worldly possessions.

[Robzombie]

Sorry if its been asked and answered already, I have absolutely no time to read all previous posts...
I'm relistening to the story and have made it to Chapter 26 again and remembered that I always wanted to ask about a peice of dialogue and what was said exactly. Corporal Puck is talking to the gang about showers and changing into PT's, then at time 5:43 says something which always sounds to me like... "I've worked the ketchup on and she made me get behind" wft????
Can someone please let me know what he is really saying here? A rep for an answer, thanks.

[turbo]

"I've worked the ketchup on since she made me get behind"

I think he means he gave all the info he could since they were holding him back from where he was headed.

[Witch_Doctor]

Sorry if its been asked and answered already, I have absolutely no time to read all previous posts...
I'm relistening to the story and have made it to Chapter 26 again and remembered that I always wanted to ask about a peice of dialogue and what was said exactly. Corporal Puck is talking to the gang about showers and changing into PT's, then at time 5:43 says something which always sounds to me like... "I've worked the ketchup on and she made me get behind" wft????
Can someone please let me know what he is really saying here? A rep for an answer, thanks.

He says, "I have work to catch up on since you've made me get behind."

[Robzombie]

haha, that makes much more sense, thank you.

[turbo]

He says, "I have work to catch up on since you've made me get behind."

That does make more sense ha, I had to of listened to it a few times and I swear I heard ketchup lol

[Witch_Doctor]

Ha Ha, reading your question was really really funny. I wasn't sure if you were serious, at first but I remember asking a simmilar question about something I misheard. The funniest one so far was when Vee posted, "When Micheal asked where Tonya was bitten Cpl Puck says 'In the Forum.' This is a dangerous place." When you listen to it it really does sound like Puck says she was bitten in the 'forum.'

[Wynne]

Omg, Datu teasing Michael like that increased my love for him by like 50%! XD SO funny. I couldn't stop giggling!