Zombies: Questions and Theories

[MancheeLivesOn]

Just several thoughts, questions, and theories on the 'zombies'.

Are They Really Dead?
Clues:

They sleep.
They need food.
Several survivors have described the stench of rotting flesh coming from zombies. Could be from old wounds that haven't/won't heal and have become infected and rotten.
They feel no pain.
Will die if shot enough or shot in the head.


Can They Reproduce?

The Little Ones appear to be created/manufactured. Described as having "no chance of being once human." Only clue towards a second generation of zombies and prolonging the outbreak aside from turning more humans.


How Long Can the Outbreak Last?

Zombie activity will likely slow in the winter months due to the cold. Most of the standard biter zombies will freeze because they are too stupid to have any survival skills.
With the majority of the zombie population becoming popsicles the only zombies to survive will be the smart ones and the big ones. After winter the farther North a survivor heads the fewer zombies they are likely to encounter aside from pockets of smart ones near libraries, universities, and labs which with a map of the area will be easy to avoid.
Nature will slowly start to take back over with the reduced human population. Zombies are likely to become prey to many predators including mountain lions, wolves, and bears.
With no alternate means to nourishment aside from humans, canabalism, the dwindeling supply of processed food, and animals the zombies will eventually starve.

[ClearSights]

Just several thoughts, questions, and theories on the 'zombies'.

How Long Can the Outbreak Last?

Zombie activity will likely slow in the winter months due to the cold. Most of the standard biter zombies will freeze because they are too stupid to have any survival skills.
With the majority of the zombie population becoming popsicles the only zombies to survive will be the smart ones and the big ones. After winter the farther North a survivor heads the fewer zombies they are likely to encounter aside from pockets of smart ones near libraries, universities, and labs which with a map of the area will be easy to avoid.
Nature will slowly start to take back over with the reduced human population. Zombies are likely to become prey to many predators including mountain lions, wolves, and bears.
With no alternate means to nourishment aside from humans, canabalism, the dwindeling supply of processed food, and animals the zombies will eventually starve.


We have no idea yet about how the zombies will act in the cold. Maybe they will be like other wild animals and hibernate in the winter only to come back stronger and bigger in the spring. (Maybe this is why they take back there dead and stockpile it in a location)

[nikvoodoo]

Just an FYI, two of the three questions are covered in other topics:

Cold/Hibernation is here: http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?113-The-cold...duh!!!&highlight=cold

Are they Really Dead is covered in this thread: http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?1168-The-Zombies-heat-status&highlight=heat

So I suppose this thread should move forward examining the idea of the zombies ability to procreate. And I shall start. We've already made the observation that the zombies seemingly are alive with increased metabolism requiring their ravenous feeding habits (and abilities beyond human comprehension: Speed, agility, jumping etc). So this outbreak has only been around for 3 months...is it possible that female zombies gestate in shorter time than regular humans? Don't see why not.

[ClearSights]

I think the ability to procreate is kind of out there. Yes, it may be possible but there are many reasons and problems with that....

The zombies have extreme levels of aggression and stress which seems to be caused by the need to eat and these levels of stress could the mother to have a miscarriage. If she is even to get pregnate in the first place. And also, if a baby was able to be formed and also survived the birth it would eventually die, because it's mother would not tend to it. Unless ofcourse, the mother zombie has a natural mother instinct and cares for its child.

So who knows....I guess zombies could do whatever KC has them do.

[kek]

I think the zombies cannot procreate. To become a fetus, it starts as a zygote, then an embryo and finally the fetus and has to undergo rapid cellular division and other forms of growth. Seeing how the zombies do not heal (the rotting flesh, the sores, not caring when injured) that could imply that their bodies do not work as a normal humans should. So the cells of their bodies would not be functioning at a normal level, no division or reproduction. Also, a mother needs to provide nourishment to the fetus, and a zombie would not be getting the proper nourishment for development. Granted, a zombie fetus might need different nourishment.

Overall, I think actually becoming pregnant and giving birth is not something the zombies will do. The only way I see this spreading is through the infected and the created little ones.

btw, do the zombies bleed? That could give insight as to whether they would be able to keep warm, protect against infection, and heal properly among other things.

[spellchekk]

They seem to evolve very fast over time. They have become, faster, stronger, and more intelligent since the first episode. There is also evidence of them evolving when Michael and the group chloroformed them to put the trackers on. They evolved an immunity to it after only a few minutes. They could evolve more to get past cold, scarcity of food, or anything else that threatens their survival.

[MancheeLivesOn]

Kalani mentioned the ones in Hawaii were nastier than the ones in LA. And perhaps zombie babies in the spring after hibernation? Would be creepy as hell but the problem with hibernation is nourishment. Bears build a layer of fat to feed off of when they are asleep and we have yet to see any substantially obese zombies yet.

[nikvoodoo]

Kalani mentioned the ones in Hawaii were nastier than the ones in LA. And perhaps zombie babies in the spring after hibernation? Would be creepy as hell but the problem with hibernation is nourishment. Bears build a layer of fat to feed off of when they are asleep and we have yet to see any substantially obese zombies yet.

It's also nowhere near time for hibernation, so the true fattening up season has yet to begin. It's still late August in the WA world. Hibernation traditionally begins in October and November when it starts to get too cold out, but the fattening up starts later in the summer/in the early fall. Otherwise animals would end up being too warm with a fat pouch in July.

The big issue with the hibernation theory with Los Angeles is simple: It's never going to get cold enough to kill off the zombies. They won't need to hibernate because they are not going to deal with freezing temperatures. Change the location to New York: dem bastards would freeze to death by mid-September!

[MancheeLivesOn]

Solution to problem. Take the Jolly Green Giant out to Kansas after winter once everything has been thoroughly frozen and dead.

*edit*
Also, with the hibernation theory killed pregnant zombies just don't seem plausible at this point.

Can the smart ones build little ones to maintain a high threat level of zombies after the majority of the standard biters starve?

[nikvoodoo]

Solution to problem. Take the Jolly Green Giant out to Kansas after winter once everything has been thoroughly frozen and dead.

Problem with Solution: Refueling a helicopter for 1,500 miles of flying across the country

(I'm sorry I started my response that way....it was too amusing to take the snark out) :p

[MancheeLivesOn]

(I'm sorry I started my response that way....it was too amusing to take the snark out) :p

You wouldn't be nikvoodoo if you weren't snarky. The minute you stop being so is the minute you are confirmed to have become a zombie.

[nikvoodoo]

You wouldn't be nikvoodoo if you weren't snarky. The minute you stop being so is the minute you are confirmed to have become a zombie.

or I've been lobotomized

[MancheeLivesOn]

Right so frozen zombies are out of the question in LA. But that still leaves starvation. What else can zombies eat?

[cupcakezombie]

Kalani mentioned the ones in Hawaii were nastier than the ones in LA.

This fits with general evolution idea that islands and isolated areas lead to development of different traits compared with larger areas where there is a larger population/gene pool.
In this case nasty traits would be more likely to propagate out though the entire group with a smaller population size on an island.

[MancheeLivesOn]

This fits with general evolution idea that islands and isolated areas lead to development of different traits compared with larger areas where there is a larger population/gene pool.
In this case nasty traits would be more likely to propagate out though the entire group with a smaller population size on an island.

Which also supports the possibility of cold weather adapted zombies. This apocalypse just keeps getting scarier and scarier.

[Lab Rat]

Right so frozen zombies are out of the question in LA. But that still leaves starvation. What else can zombies eat?

I guess they would probably eat whatever they could catch. I'd wager that any domestic animals in the Los Angeles area would probably be harder to run down than a human, given the choice.

[kek]

Maybe the Hawaii zombies are nasty because they are hungry. Not as many people on Hawaii, so less food. Everyone/thing can get cranky when hungry. Problem with my thought- Kalani might not have been there long enough for the zombies to start to go hungry, so that wouldn't make sense.

Just putting that out there....

[ZombieNick]

How do we know that the later generation of zombies evoled and not were not created? Typically when an animal goes though an evolution, the are several steps (and miss-steps) to a sucessful generation of evoled species. We go from Reg. Zombies to Runners to Jumpers. We no reports of the steps (and miss-steps) inbetween.

[nikvoodoo]

How do we know that the later generation of zombies evoled and not were not created? Typically when an animal goes though an evolution, the are several steps (and miss-steps) to a sucessful generation of evoled species. We go from Reg. Zombies to Runners to Jumpers. We no reports of the steps (and miss-steps) inbetween.

I'd vote for evolved simply because the smartest zombie we've met in the series had trouble understanding a keypad and a simple sequence of numbers. This would be the same person people claim is creating the other zombies. I shall renew my belief that Franken-zombies can't exist because the medical expertise to create something out of many different things requires a lot of medical knowledge and fine motor skills. Things that are apparently lacking in our zombie hoard.

[MancheeLivesOn]

Nik's right. We have issues splicing genes and what not but zombies have figured it out to mass produce it? And the Runners and Jumpers could just be track stars, can't be fabricated cuz they have no numbering system like the Little Ones.

[Chris Osborne]

I agree, I dont think Ink/Guy in the Pinstripe Suit is creating them. As mentioned above, he had issues with a simple numbered keypad. Granted he got it to work, but it took a few tries... this isnt someone/thing capable of complex genetic manipulation. Also, another hole in that theory is, are we to assume that he started in Hawaii and then caught the flight back to LAX and started it there as well? He may be the Yogi Bear of Zombies [smarter than the average zombie] but hes not able to be in multiple places at the same time. PLUS theres the theory that the zombie in the pinstripe suit is the mass murderer they mentioned on the TiVO clip they watched, "Ink". He went from homicidal maniac to geneticist/scientist AFTER becoming a zombie?

[Chesire]

The "Were Alive" Zombies don't appear to have the same M.O. as from the usual Zombie Dogma/Canon (like "The Walking Dead.")

1. They don't physically decay
2. Most show signs of typical organic animal behavior
3. Seem to follow a hierarchy-(Possibly Hive Collective)-but appear only loosely connected
IMPORTANT
The Zombies from the “Were Alive” appear to be less like the Zombies from “The Walking Dead” and more like the Vampires from “The Passage” by Justin Cronin.
Read this- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Passage_(2010_novel)

My theory-(in the works)
1. “Ink” was a dormant Alma Wade but then created a limited psychic field in L.A. thus controlling a big enough portion of people under his control to take over via infecting the rest of L.A.

-This would explain why Victor and Pegs had such hard time breathing while there was nothing wrong with the air. (Negative psychic energy)

Hawaii Factor- While most believe Hawaii was “the source” of the infection we currently have no evidence besides testimony by Kalani to support it. I also believe Kalani to be the Mole but why he would lie about Hawaii is unknown.

[JusticePain]

Well if the were really zombies they could go years with food, can't run, or talk. These "zombies" are all wrong!

[nikvoodoo]

Well if the were really zombies they could go years with food, can't run, or talk. These "zombies" are all wrong!

Yet oh so right.

[Daddy Doom Bar]

My theory on the zeds is that the 'poisoned air' Victor and Pegs came across is a leak from some form of genetic research lab that went all Pete Tong and caused millions to become like zombies. They're not zombies, though. I'd say more like 28 Days Later style Rage Virus. Had Victor and Pegs stayed longer, they'd have become infected. Ink is a psychotic killer and as Burt says, what you are in life is the basis for what you're like as a 'zed'. Perhaps the mental hospital Ink/'the guy from the news' was sent to was a breeding facility for test subjects for the test that went wrong that caused all this. As they were testing, Ink got free, killed everyone and set the virus free. He's now leading the zeds as his criminal/psychotic mind has made him very clever (animalistic/alpha male leader-wise).

Kalani is lying about Hawaii and is also the mole. He was in the first tower that fell from a mole (the mole being him again), and then ended up getting caught by the zeds. He was in the arena before Samantha, as she said she survived a couple of days, whereas Kalani got caught right away. Samantha never said she didn't know Kalani from the tower, it just seemed like they'd never met before the arena. Kalani went all silent as he was depressed/feeling guilty that the Mallers never came for him, but the other tower residents tried to rescue Samantha. When he saw a chance to get out via Datu's rescuers, he saw a way to mess their tower up and hopefully get back in with the Mallers.
So the stuff about Hawaii being the source, I think is wrong.

[Daddy Doom Bar]

Also been thinking about the news report stating that there were riots in other major cities as well as internationally. This outbreak could well be some sort of alien biological warfare/invasion. It could even be a highly organized terrorist attack. A biological agent sold on the black market could have been released.
Either would explain Hawaii being infected, as well as no help or communications from outside L.A.
Also the explosions in episode 1 were strange. Surely if it had come to the army fighting with explosives, the reservists/Micheal/Angel etc would have been called out much sooner? But then the news report stated after the explosion about the riots, so perhaps it was a petrol station going up a la 28 Days Later. If it was the army using high calibre rounds or explosives, the news would have known that?
Kalani said that the other tower brought some 'strange shit' back from ground zero, which could indicate alien tech/evidence.

[zorakid]

Since we know some infected have specialized powers, it could be that there are special female zombies that can give birth to new creatures. Imagine a queen zombie that turned from a pregnant women. The "little ones" could have been produced by a queen zombie.

Also another related idea, which is rather crude... is the idea that special zombies can impregnate normal women to produce zombies, or turn them into queen zombies. I know this sounds really messed up but isn't unimaginable based on what happens in the animal and insect kingdom.

[Anhysbys]

"Kalani is lying about Hawaii and is also the mole. He was in the first tower that fell from a mole (the mole being him again), and then ended up getting caught by the zeds. He was in the arena before Samantha, as she said she survived a couple of days, whereas Kalani got caught right away. Samantha never said she didn't know Kalani from the tower, it just seemed like they'd never met before the arena. Kalani went all silent as he was depressed/feeling guilty that the Mallers never came for him, but the other tower residents tried to rescue Samantha. When he saw a chance to get out via Datu's rescuers, he saw a way to mess their tower up and hopefully get back in with the Mallers.
So the stuff about Hawaii being the source, I think is wrong."

This makes sense, Kalani had been at the other tower for such short of a time he probably had managed to work his way up the hierarchal ladder most likely in state there and managed to act as a Mole for the zombies that broke in with Ink! I do think he is lying about Hawaii, but for other reasons. Kalani just doesn't fit as the high collar criminals that are in Eastern Bay, he's too... he gives into other people's wills to easily. It also figures that Kalani doesn't know Samantha from the tower and vice versa, because as stated above Kalani was new to the tower and Samantha wasn't probably staring at every survivor to come in and memorizing their names since the tower was fairly larger than Michael's too. He wasn't just silent he was unmoving and slightly comatose, and why would he feel guilty the mallers never came for him if he was captured and the Other Tower members tried to get Samantha. The mallers never showed up at the other tower, they have a common tactic of surrounding the building completely (as every time they've surrounded Michael's tower when they came) so nobody would get past. It was just Ink and his zombie crew that invaded the other tower. People wouldn't act as moles for the zombies.

Zora, cross-impregnation over species hardly ever happens, in nature, in the animal or insect kingdom. Cross impregnation usually leads to the offspring being barren. Besides a queen zombie would have control over all others and Ink doesn't seem to me like all that motherly. Although the special zombies impregnating normal women seems creepy it's highly improbable. The zombieism spreads through bodily fluids, that would include semen and sexual activity. That and the zombies wouldn't know the first thing of zombie baby care, what to feed it and how to change infected diapers all that jazz. Not including their bodies probably wouldn't be able to support the childbirth, the first pregnant women would've been the not so changed feeders we have already seen, they would take multiple hits to the stomach with pretty much anything a survivor could hold and probably the baby would be stillborn. We've also seen zombie physiology is different, blood doesn't flow as strongly through them and serves less of a purpose, the effects this would have on a developing fetus would be disastrous and that huge change in their growth wouldn't help. I highly doubt the zombies could reproduce from what we've seen. Although I can see a smart one walking into a safehouse with a box of rotting ice cream, then has a chat with a pregnant, ending with him sighing and leaving to search for another craving.

[minty]

aliens, they might be a part of it...!!

[nikvoodoo]

aliens, they might be a part of it...!!

....I thought I heard someone kick over a crystal skull....