Zombie Intel

[Th3_T3ch]

The Zombies Are A Pack

After going threw the first chapter, I have discovered something interesting. The zombies were only "wild dogs" (michael cross's words) for a few hours, if that. The base was attacked by a large wave of biters and in less than a few hours they were mostly gone. At the flower shop, there were even less biters on the street. At the Tower, there were more zombies, but spread out more.

What I've learned is that the zombies were acting like a pack soon after the outbreak. Does this mean that they have a natural pack mentality? Or does it mean that pin-stripes controlled them as soon as he turned?

What purpose does turning a person with broken legs achieve? Cindy was found with broken legs. From what I've found, it seems that the biters were guarding food. We already know that the biters keep food and that they go after the bigger threat. The Tower was left alone for such a long time because they weren't the biggest threat, and they are like sardines. Packed in a small area and ready for the pickings. The base was guarded because of three people, the flower shop was guarded because of two people, and the Tower was guarded heavier because it had one man with a gun at the top.

Logically speaking, the biters like fresh food. The biters also go for the bigger threat. They know how to make traps for convoys (A.K.A. meals on wheels) and are controlled by an insanely smart creature.

[Osiris]

Read my last blog 'Do Zombies Dream of Electric Brains'. I touched on something similar to this...

[Waldo Butters]

I believe I have some kind of idea why their was the pack mentality in the begining of the outbreak. It's because humans are basically pack animals. We band together and form communities for mutual safety and security and their is a definite safety in numbers. Its what humans have been doing from the start. Joining together to hunt and gather food and also keep away predators and other hostile groups of humans. So when the outbreak hit, the Zeds went back to their former base instincts: join into groups to more easily overwelm prey.

Its not until smarter or stronger individuals/groups arise to create order like in ancient times how pharohs, emporers, and kings rose amongst the upper class and used the strong to police the weak. Thats what The One With The Markings is doing, creating order among chaos and systematically wiping out opposition, securing food for his people, trying to make his people stronger while keeping order. The Zeds basically turned into prehistoric humans, just without the politeness or utensils.

[Wicked Sid]

Maybe Mr. Laurd (Hall Zombie on Cindy's floor) broke Cindy's legs while she was turned and he wasn't in an attempt to get away but was bitten in the process.

As for early onset pack mentality, I'd say it was natural. The major smart one would need time to become situated and have control of what he'd become before being able to control others.

[7oddisdead]

I've been obsessed with the idea of the zoms in the w/a universe being totally based on ants....heres an example of ants trapping prey

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1390149/posts

now, none of the ants as zombies comparisons explain the ink/owtm/pinstripes behaving as a leader of sorts..as most all ant groups do not have a specific leader...but all things evolve, perhaps the zoms here are evolving far faster than anything ever seen in the natural world

[Luna Guardian]

I've actually thought about this as well. When the outbreak began, there was chaos. The zombies were more or less out of control, just rampaging out of control like a bunch of starved people at an all-you-can-eat buffet with all inhibitions removed. After a while, as in all situations, leaders began to arise. We know they can communicate, and because they can the intelligent ones don't even necessarily need to be "strong" (although we know from Skittle's tales that Ink is). Is it a stretch to think that some of them have zombie-charisma? Ink/OWTM/Pinstripes/whatever might be the zombie equivalent of Martin Luther King or Adolf Hitler.

[yarri]

After going threw the first chapter, I have discovered something interesting. The zombies were only "wild dogs" (michael cross's words) for a few hours, if that. The base was attacked by a large wave of biters and in less than a few hours they were mostly gone. At the flower shop, there were even less biters on the street. At the Tower, there were more zombies, but spread out more.


What I've learned is that the zombies were acting like a pack soon after the outbreak. Does this mean that they have a natural pack mentality? Or does it mean that pin-stripes controlled them as soon as he turned?

If we assume that the "wild dog" theory is correct then we can assume that the control seen by the "packs" now is because they have found an "alpha" in Ink. I would think that the natural pack mentality could be triggered by the Z virus attacking the primitive portion of the human brain.

[ToxicTofu]

the natural pack mentality could be triggered by the Z virus attacking the primitive portion of the human brain.

Or it just majorly enhances it. for all we know this is the "next evolution" of mankind, frankly they are evolving at a very high rate (from basically the equivilant to cave men to almost our level of intelligence in like what, a few weeks? maybe even less) which could mean that our time is up =/

[Wicked Sid]

I wouldn't say it's an evolution per se because it didn't start from a base level. It started with a foundation of a highly evolved organism and is now regaining ways to fully control the parts of the brain that it made dormant when it first took over. In other words, they're catching up to what they used to be.

We don't know if they'll continue to further their mental capacity or just stop at the same level that humankind used to be.

It was a few months not a few weeks.

[Th3_T3ch]

Everybody else, I have read about some theories about the Zeds before writing this thread. What I'm saying is that the Zeds were controlled, it would seem, almost instantly after the Colored One turned. At the base, M/S/A were trapped in the arms room. Saul said there were like "hundreds" of Zeds out there. Then a short time later most of them are gone. There is really only one case where we see a Zed doing something that he did in his life and that was the commander.

ToxicTofu, I don't believe that evolution actually happens with all the biters. It would appear that actual evolution isn't happening, but instead it seems more like learning.

[7oddisdead]

What if we have all been essentially right with our theories, just we needed to piece them all together?...while yes at first it seemed that the zoms had a mob mentality..that changed to a pack, that changed to a swarm, and its now became an army.

As osiris mentioned, his recent blog deals with the thoughts of a possible collective conscious....and while I love that idea,(really I do)..it got me to thinking in other similar directions. If we think on the basis of the zeds actually still being alive, then some level of brain activity must remain. So the "spark" still exists....what if someone foohnd a way to change the configuration of the mind somehow? I found this article, which for the most part sounds like rubbish psycho-babble...but it brings up some interesting thoughts

http://www.rense.com/general62/expl.htm

So what if, the largest part of the zeds who were "normal" in life did in fact ALL have their minds attuned to the same freq. And people such as ink, being mentally wired different rose above that?....

Its a work in progress, but I thought it worth sharing...

[ToxicTofu]

Creepy but awesome, it makes sense really. The ones who were simply "broken" in life are now (atleast usually) Superior.. kinda awesome

[Waldo Butters]

Creepy but awesome, it makes sense really. The ones who were simply "broken" in life are now (atleast usually) Superior.. kinda awesome

Less creepy, more terrifying because in a zombie outbreak the ones we ('we' being everyone who isn't a person that society considers 'damaged') have looked down upon will be controlling or atleast leading the hordes of the undead to the doorsteps of the survivors. All I can say is that I'm going to be even nicer to the criminally insane before this happens. Maybe get a few brownie points...

[7oddisdead]

But now consider.....skittles?...what would happen if say, we threw him in ground zero?...(at least in the scenario I'm proposing)

[ToxicTofu]

lol

[ToxicTofu]

But now consider.....skittles?...what would happen if say, we threw him in ground zero?...(at least in the scenario I'm proposing)

Well that depends, if he dies.. most likely anotehr commander... if not then he may be able to do something? (and by something a plot thing that uncovers some frigin answers)

[Waldo Butters]

But now consider.....skittles?...what would happen if say, we threw him in ground zero?...(at least in the scenario I'm proposing)

I'm going to say that his particular psychosis is going to prevent him from changing and he will be the first one to become immune to Ground Zero.
[ridiculous I know but thats the scenario I choose]

[7oddisdead]

Actually that's kinda what I was getting at...skittles exploring ground zero

[ToxicTofu]

Actually that's kinda what I was getting at...skittles exploring ground zero
so are we to suppose that whatever is keeping everyone out he is immune to? or atleast has a resistance against it? i wouldn't doubt it as he would have to, at some point, run into ground zero. It would be pretty damn neat

[Waldo Butters]

so are we to suppose that whatever is keeping everyone out he is immune to? or atleast has a resistance against it? i wouldn't doubt it as he would have to, at some point, run into ground zero. It would be pretty damn neat

Either that or he is even more suseptable to the effect than regular people.

[7oddisdead]

Agreed to both of you, but we are totally sidetracking this thread..

[ToxicTofu]

Aww but i was having fun doing so... :P

[7oddisdead]

I'm gonna throw a more complete theory up over on crackpot when I get home later tonight....need to let this brew for a minute....

[ToxicTofu]

Cant wait to read it man, love your theories :)

[Th3_T3ch]

I never said mob, to pack, to swarm, to army. What I'm saying is that hours after the outbreak, and as soon as the colored one was turned (if he was), they went from a mob to a coordinated group capable of creating an army. Because where an evac site was supposed to be was as Saul said "a ghost town". What happened to all the zombies that fast? Where did they go? Was it the Arena? Or out killing the threats?

[7oddisdead]

We haven't a clue where they went between the base and arena time frame, if you have a declarative opinion of what you think happened, go ahead and make it.otherwise, I for one have given my opinion.

(Sits back and patiently waits....)

[Th3_T3ch]

My belief is that they were out attacking the place with the most people. I would think they spread out a bit and "recruited" some more biters. They probably went to the LAX evac-site and then toward any other large group of people.

[7oddisdead]

Thank you... <br />
And now, why would they suddenly seem to function as a cohesive unit when the colored one showed up? <br />
Ever had to train a new employee? IF we are to assume he is &quot;in charge&quot; I'm sure...

[Th3_T3ch]

I know I've answered a question, but not my main question about the biters which is why do the biters function in such a manner? Kc probably won't give a direct answer to this until the very end. I am assuming that it would be more pack like in the manner that they all follow orders given by the colored one. Have you ever seen a wolf that is instinctively on its own? no because they instinctively travel together and work together. What is important is that we get as much information about the biters on this post thread.

[7oddisdead]

Before this gets heated..im gonna bow out. So is it simply facts you want? Cause I'll start the research right now....ive got 8 hours to kill

[nikvoodoo]

A theory to throw into this mix: if the zombies are indeed exhibiting animal like behavior, it stands to reason that in the first day of the outbreak, the zombies were following their food source. That being people fleeing the city center and to the outer reaches of LA. That could explain why there are no zombies as our heroes went to the tower. The swarm had already passed.

Of course those survivors that tried to escape west hit the ocean/lax and got slaughtered.

[Th3_T3ch]

A theory to throw into this mix: if the zombies are indeed exhibiting animal like behavior, it stands to reason that in the first day of the outbreak, the zombies were following their food source. That being people fleeing the city center and to the outer reaches of LA. That could explain why there are no zombies as our heroes went to the tower. The swarm had already passed.

Of course those survivors that tried to escape west hit the ocean/lax and got slaughtered.
If your theory is correct, then why did some biters stay near anybody trapped? wouldn't it seem more animalistic to go and hunt the easier prey?

[7oddisdead]

so heres what ive found so far..at the intial point of ourbreak, and by that i mean the first few hours. the only real "pack" we see is the ones that attacked the horny honker behind michael on the freeway..later at the base we have what would seem to be more of a "swarm" coming, by that i mean a large group of individuals...this does not imply any of them are working toward a common goal....just a bunch of squirrels looking for the nut. now, when m/s/a hid in the safe, the scent of the nut went away and at that point its as if they "forgot" why they were there in the first place

tonight ill explore the transition from thinking for the individual to thinkig for the group. but to paraphrase the mentality of the first wave

"i smell food...im gonnna go find it and nom nom nom....wait..now i dont smell food.....ill just stand here til i smell it again...then ill nom nom nom..............and waiting.........and.. waiting...:"

[Restless]

If your theory is correct, then why did some biters stay near anybody trapped? wouldn't it seem more animalistic to go and hunt the easier prey?

Depends on the animal. Some could be like crocodiles, hanging around the places they were most familiar with waiting for prey to show up. Or polar bears hanging around an ice hole waiting for the seal to appear.
Or dogs. Who hasn't had a dog cry at the door for hours wanting in? Though I've also heard (though this is probably an urban legend) from a poster on a news article of wild dog packs in Georgian swamps treeing hunters and switching off to keep the hunter trapped like a coon until other people showed up to the rescue.

So I don't think it's at all weird for a zombie or animal to hang around a place where they're fairly certain food will show up, especially when there's no other obvious prey source fleeing from them. They don't seem to really be waiting around all that long anyway (I'm guessing when Angel, Saul and Burt were on top of Burt's store was probably the longest we've seen them hang about waiting as opposed to roaming in the series, and then I think Saul said they were sleeping).

[nikvoodoo]

If your theory is correct, then why did some biters stay near anybody trapped? wouldn't it seem more animalistic to go and hunt the easier prey?

trapped pray is easy pray. two chicks stuck on a roof will be easier to kill than running after a group of people. They have limited space to run, and if you stay out of sight long enough to lull them into a false sense of security they'll come right to you. They only came out when Michael and crew came to steal their food.

[Th3_T3ch]

Depends on the animal. Some could be like crocodiles, hanging around the places they were most familiar with waiting for prey to show up. Or polar bears hanging around an ice hole waiting for the seal to appear.
Or dogs. Who hasn't had a dog cry at the door for hours wanting in? Though I've also heard (though this is probably an urban legend) from a poster on a news article of wild dog packs in Georgian swamps treeing hunters and switching off to keep the hunter trapped like a coon until other people showed up to the rescue.

So I don't think it's at all weird for a zombie or animal to hang around a place where they're fairly certain food will show up, especially when there's no other obvious prey source fleeing from them. They don't seem to really be waiting around all that long anyway (I'm guessing when Angel, Saul and Burt were on top of Burt's store was probably the longest we've seen them hang about waiting as opposed to roaming in the series, and then I think Saul said they were sleeping).

When A/S/B were trapped on a roof was a few days after the outbreak, meaning they were the viable food source around. And don't you think that MOST of those animals do that, meaning it's more instinctual and therefore happens to all of them. Why would a few stay around if their instinct, as we've seen with Lizzy's test, is to go after the smellier food?


trapped pray is easy pray. two chicks stuck on a roof will be easier to kill than running after a group of people. They have limited space to run, and if you stay out of sight long enough to lull them into a false sense of security they'll come right to you. They only came out when Michael and crew came to steal their food.

but we've seen the biters be persistent about eating their prey. I'm thinking that the biters were already under the colored one's control and were instructed to go after the larger amounts of food. the ones left over, yes I understand the whole stealing food business, were their to either (these are both probables) there to keep watch over the area or were there to make sure the food didn't leave. I'm siding with the latter.

[Restless]

Well, instinctual doesn't mean it happens to all of them. It's instinctual for wolves and dogs to attack sheep, and yet we have sheepdogs. Presumably not every zombie is the exact same no matter how superficially they may appear.

But I would guess the zombies are territorial. It would make sense for them to be, since most predators (including humans) are. The ones that stuck around simply claimed that territory as their own and kept their competition out. Their dominance displays could be like most animals, focused solely on scent, sound and looking bigger & meaner than your competition, which could easily be overlooked or misinterpreted by survivors. Plus we know they're cannibals, so they probably do fight amongst themselves or at the very least don't all want to travel together.

Though like I said they seem to be roaming, they don't really seem to be sticking around in one place all that long so I think you have a non-point. If zombies sleep, they have to rest, so why would it be weird for them to hang around in one place for at least a few hours instead of immediately leaving for their next meal?

Unless you mean simply why did some zombies stay in the city at all, which to me is obvious. Not everyone left or could leave the city that quickly, so likewise why would all the zombies be able to all leave so suddenly?
While I'm on that thought, nikvoodoo's theory of everyone leaving the city with zombies nipping at their heels doesn't sound very reasonable. I don't think that's what happened personally, I think it's more people were hiding like Bill or getting accidentally trapped and being killed by zombies indoors. A single zombie could probably take down quite a number of unarmed office workers or college kids going about their day, for example.

So actually I think most people stayed in the city, without enough warning to leave.
Therefore, to me, it's more weird that there wasn't more dead bodies mentioned, but maybe zombies started hoarding bodies right from the start and dragging them into hidey holes.

Obviously I don't know. But I definitely don't think it's weird for some zombies to hang about in the same area, especially if you're going to assign them living traits (like the need to sleep) and not just treat them as killing machines with only one objective.

[nikvoodoo]

If most people stayed in the city, then the roads would be clearer than they are. People had time to react to the outbreak, especially the further away from ground zero they lived.

[Restless]

I don't know that the roads are really all that congested. It's only at one point in the story (besides the specific zombie traps) that they can't drive to their destination, and that's when Angel, Datu and Riley head to the Arena.

Besides, I would think more congestion would mean less people got out. How can you drive through a traffic jam? I'm guessing the people who escaped didn't purposely leave their cars behind. I'd say the opposite should be true, that the more people who got out the less cars there'd be just sitting around.

I'm not convinced people had any real time at all to react. From the very beginning with Michael and the journals, apparently the only warning was seeing zombies attacking the people around you and a few riot reports.

[nikvoodoo]

It's more than just one point in the story. It takes the tower members hours to drive places it should only take a half hour. They are constantly taking detours, and stay off the free way because that's where the majority of the dead cars would be.

I never said people got out, I said they were heading away from the city center. That doesn't mean they successfully escaped. It more likely means that as they were trying to escape from the riots (because most people don't travel into danger, they flee from it), they were over taken by the zombie hoard moving outwards from ground zero and since they either became zombie food, or zombies: they left their cars on the road. That's why I say most people had a chance to react because the roads are littered with cars as has been mentioned multiple times in the story.

The last mark on the map time wise is 11am at the Army Base. that means that the news reports might have started somewhere in the area of 9:30am-10:00am (because Michael heard it and then traveled to the base. The 11am mark is from him, Angel and Saul. If local news stations do what they do, they break into tv broadcasts and inform the public. Meaning there is a chance that people outside of the 10am radius of the outbreak had a chance to learn about the riots, and react. It's also evident by the traffic jam Michael was caught up in as he tried to get to the base that people were reacting and trying to flee.

Just because the survivors of the Tower were caught by surprise doesn't mean everybody was.

[Th3_T3ch]

Restless, the army had time to call all troops to their bases. That means that there was plenty of time for people to panic. Nik is right in saying that people were heading out of the city. In this situation, I would have tried to do that but left my car where it was. Not everyone is as paranoid as I am though. The news in LA is pretty quickly known, so that means that almost as soon as the outbreak happened (and we see this with the TiVo) the news was on it. giving plenty of time to panic.

About the biters, listen to the first episode again. You can hear an ambulance siren go off in the distance. Then when the alarm is triggered, we hear a biter call to the pack. Meaning they were already working together. I understand the territorial thing but, why would the commander stand in formation? I don't know about the army that well, but I'm pretty sure that while formation is drilled into every privates head when they are in basic, it doesn't make that something often happening for a commander. I am fully aware of the whole life dictates biter aspect of them, but that is (from what we've seen/heard) only in intelligence. They clearly didn't know how to open a door in the beginning.