Is this really happening (Spoiler)

[Austin king]

Im a big Burt and Angel fan they cant kill them. They're such a powerful force in We're Alive

[HardKor]

They're in a tough spot. And its a sign of good storytelling that I honestly can't predict whats going to happen. All the possibilities seem likely (They both die, the both get out, one dies and the other gets out, etc...)
But really, I think Burt has an expiration date. He has all the makings of a heroic sacrifice: He older than everyone else, he's badass enough to make his exit epic, he's physically breaking down, and he has things to atone for. I don't know if this is going to be his exit or not. His narration opening the chapter makes his survival more likely, unless he's writing it while preparing to die, but I do think he's going out before the story is all said and done.

[Creem_Filling]

I know! They spoke in such a "this is the end" way, I'm freaking out. If they die, they better go out in one hell of a way. I swear, if Burt dies without tearing a hole in the matter of the space with Shirley and sucking all zombies into it, I'm gonna scream. Ok, maybe not something that extreme, but you know...

[Austin king]

They need an old man who else could replace him. This is kinda weird I just ask shane not to kill burt on facebook

[Osiris]

I told Kc that he was evil. I'm pretty sure he lol'd and then set fire to a kitten before saying 'I'm just telling a story'.

[Laura]

I'm just stressed wondering what's gonna happen to them. I love Burt, and I was beginning to really like Angel too. :(

[ilanagl]

I hope they both die. I like both the characters but I just dont see how they can get out of this.

[Hoss]

Angel won't die yet folks. We've still got to figure out how he and Scratch know each other. I don't want to lose Burt either though. I mean, who doesn't love a jolly fat man with lots of shiny toys that make lots of noise?

[Magrat]

Prediction: they will both survive this and then the moment they feel safe (and we do along with them) one of them is going to get bitten and/or die!

[itsallgoodie]

So, im glad that this thread is here and hasnt been merged, I just got to listen, *i know, lets all yell at the admin who didnt listen to the new episode on release day.* And i am not sure what to think of all this. I know riley is my favorite character and if she really "needs" angel like she said she did then this is really gunna make her get hammered every day. That makes me sad. on the other hand I cant see a way out for burt and angel. Im thinking maybe, just maybe, they will use the helicopter to distract the zombies enough for them to get away and then meet up later but im not sure if that would work. they could also try to distract some with burts explosives cuz that worked before but I would think that the zombies are to preoccupied with trying to kill angel and burt to care about that petty noise.

All i know is that if angel dies, Ra1th will have a hard time keeping up his comebacks in the "will angel ever take control of the tower" thread. and that, if nothing else would make his death sit a bit better with me.

[GD_Elite]

Zombie army. Order amongst them. Following orders. Taking live prisoners. The zombies arent just gonna chow down on Burt and Angel, we need to see what the zombies are doing at the hospital. Burts telling the story now, so I reckon he will be telling the story of what is happening to them as the zombies do unspeakable things to Angel.

[Phill]

Great episode! They have 2 sheets left i believe.
They wanted to get to the roof several stories below, but since they don't have enough, how about just going one level down?
Angel lowers bert out window using both sheets, angel kicks in window and enters floor below. Bert could then either add more sheets/material if available, or secure his end in the room, hold on and let angel swing on down into the room!
Granted its dangerous, but hell its freeeakkkking zombies out there man!

Either that or bert mentioned the sheet tore because it was rubbing on the ledge. Wonder would the ledge allow them to go to adjoining rooms?

[ghrantt]

Am i wrong or did I hear that they are holding the door handle since it is not locked so one of them has to hold the door making it almost impossible for both to escape?

[mem]

So, im glad that this thread is here and hasnt been merged, I just got to listen, *i know, lets all yell at the admin who didnt listen to the new episode on release day.* And i am not sure what to think of all this. I know riley is my favorite character and if she really "needs" angel like she said she did then this is really gunna make her get hammered every day. That makes me sad. on the other hand I cant see a way out for burt and angel. Im thinking maybe, just maybe, they will use the helicopter to distract the zombies enough for them to get away and then meet up later but im not sure if that would work. they could also try to distract some with burts explosives cuz that worked before but I would think that the zombies are to preoccupied with trying to kill angel and burt to care about that petty noise.

All i know is that if angel dies, Ra1th will have a hard time keeping up his comebacks in the "will angel ever take control of the tower" thread. and that, if nothing else would make his death sit a bit better with me.

if angel dies Ra1th would kidnap kc (after kc had a car wreck in the snow) and hold him hostage until he wrote a new story where Angel came back to life and finally took over the tower. Kc make sure you double up on your security and don't drive in the snow!!!

[itsallgoodie]

Zombie army. Order amongst them. Following orders. Taking live prisoners. The zombies arent just gonna chow down on Burt and Angel, we need to see what the zombies are doing at the hospital. Burts telling the story now, so I reckon he will be telling the story of what is happening to them as the zombies do unspeakable things to Angel.

you get rep for that one buddy. good call. Agreed, this is what will happen.

[Eitri]

All i know is that i will exact vengance if Lizzie, Burt Or Angel Dies

[uuhhhuuu]

i have an idea? what if Riley is the rat and in order to save Burt and Angel she has to call the mallers for help and everyone finds out that she is the rat!! that would be pretty sweet!!

[Magrat]

if angel dies Ra1th would kidnap kc (after kc had a car wreck in the snow) and hold him hostage until he wrote a new story where Angel came back to life and finally took over the tower. Kc make sure you double up on your security and don't drive in the snow!!!

Me likey!

This is an amazing and key moment in the story. Bets on kc going back to the tower in the next part and not telling us what happens next with Burt & Angel?

[ToxicTofu]

Quick question on the specs of the chopper they are about to nab, is it small enough to get close enough to the hospital for Burt & Angel to jump in but still big enough to suit their needs? OR is it just big enough that it is just not plausible? Because this might drastically change what i think will happen to them.. i like the guy that thinks that Kc is going to use Angle & Burt as a vehicle for more info on what the frack the "zombies" are DOING.... it would make sense... and maybe we will get told who frigin Randy is! (Randy... Randi? hmmm)

[HardKor]

Quick question on the specs of the chopper they are about to nab, is it small enough to get close enough to the hospital for Burt & Angel to jump in but still big enough to suit their needs? OR is it just big enough that it is just not plausible? Because this might drastically change what i think will happen to them.. i like the guy that thinks that Kc is going to use Angle & Burt as a vehicle for more info on what the frack the "zombies" are DOING.... it would make sense... and maybe we will get told who frigin Randy is! (Randy... Randi? hmmm)

I doubt any helicopter would be able to hover close enough to the window for them to jump in. They're pretty much in the middle of the building (or at least they've got two floors above them) meaning there's a wall above and below the window. The blades would prevent the chopper from getting close enough. Kalani and Riley would have to hover above the building and hang a rope ladder or the rest of their bedsheet "rope" and have Angel and Burt climb up.

[ToxicTofu]

I doubt any helicopter would be able to hover close enough to the window for them to jump in. They're pretty much in the middle of the building (or at least they've got two floors above them) meaning there's a wall above and below the window. The blades would prevent the chopper from getting close enough. Kalani and Riley would have to hover above the building and hang a rope ladder or the rest of their bedsheet "rope" and have Angel and Burt climb up. Alrighty just wanted to clear that up, and it dosnt seem like they grabbed that long rope because i think Kc would have made note of the fact that they took it if they did correct? Also i dont think a medical chopper would have a rope ladder but they would have a rescue basket right? just a thought

[Eitri]

I have one thing to say...
GET TO THE CHOPPAH

[Gefroan]

My prediction is angel escapes down to the 6th floor and burt dies protecting angel, maybe.....they both are captured and they discover somthing new??? how they escape??? not from riley and kalani i think they will take the helicopter back to the tower and demand for a rescue operation and there will be consverse but they proceed with the rescue mission saving both angel and burt??? KC if u steal this idea ill go insane! (i bet KC reads our predictions and makes the next episode just like that or he completely avoids the prediction in spite of us lol) anyway whatever happens if riley and angel dont get steamy in the helicopter im burning somthing alive and putting it KC's backyard and calling animal abuse.........''Due to un forseen events the podcast ''We're alive a story of survival'' has been banned from the intenant and all employes have been convicted of first degree kitty murder! and arsen! too much? lol

[Laura]

I could definitely see Burt going down by taking one for Angel. Sad, but a serious possibility. At this point, I don't think Angel will die. Burt? Not so much. :(

[uuhhhuuu]

Alrighty just wanted to clear that up, and it dosnt seem like they grabbed that long rope because i think Kc would have made note of the fact that they took it if they did correct? Also i dont think a medical chopper would have a rope ladder but they would have a rescue basket right? just a thought

yeah i thought that to about the basket. My grandmother was once air lifted to a hospital (due to a small heart attack) the hospital chopper had a steel cable on the side and had a basket inside to connect to. so if Riley and Kalani can get to the helicopter they might have a chance. BUT!!! one big fact that everyone seems to keep forgetting is that the room's door won't lock so even if the helicopter is able to get to them SOMEONE MUST HOLD THE DOOR. or else its all over. muhaha. . . . . yeah that's all i got!! thanks.

[ToxicTofu]

yeah i thought that to about the basket. My grandmother was once air lifted to a hospital (due to a small heart attack) the hospital chopper had a steel cable on the side and had a basket inside to connect to. so if Riley and Kalani can get to the helicopter they might have a chance. BUT!!! one big fact that everyone seems to keep forgetting is that the room's door won't lock so even if the helicopter is able to get to them SOMEONE MUST HOLD THE DOOR. or else its all over. muhaha. . . . . yeah that's all i got!! thanks.
Therefore killing burt. It makes sense really.. i mean i guess burt is still worried about lizzy and saul but that is no reason for the character to keep living..

[Gunslinger]

Everyone forgetting the classics? Explosions, jamming things into doors, fateful last second leaps to the chopper? I am very curious to hear what happens, but there really are a lot of factors.

I would definitely go with a rescue attempt. I don't think they'll depend on the chopper as its an unknown. I see a confrontation in the hospital and perhaps even a parley with the man in the suit. Maybe its because of the chapter art, but I just don't see the chopper being an immediate move in this situation. I like that we don't know whether Angel or Burt will survive. The tension is delicious. However, Kalani and Riley aren't exactly safe, they're 6 floors below, have to make it to another wing, and have to get by whatever other zombies might be there.

I really hope that circumstances unfold that a more dynamic chain of events occurs than a simple rescue with the chopper. While it would be interesting, I think its a tad too easy and pedestrian for how the scene has played thus far. Some sort of craziness should lead to a running escape that plays into Burt using the C4 to slow or stop zombie egress into the main tower for awhile, giving Kalani time to get the chopper actually running after finding the keys. The approach of differing zombies should give it some tension as they bypass the limiting situation and give tension to their actually leaving. Whether someone eats it or sacrifices themselves in the process would be up in the air.
Just some speculative possibilities, mind, but just to point out there are a lot of things that could happen here.

[ToxicTofu]

True gun, obviously pin stripes has an encounter with Riley (he is holding an arrow after all) so there will atleast get shot at by her, totally forgot about that :)

[Magrat]

True gun, obviously pin stripes has an encounter with Riley (he is holding an arrow after all) so there will atleast get shot at by her, totally forgot about that :)

He could always have pulled it out of one of the other zombies she's 'stuck' while they are clearing their dead from the corridors.

[KeAnna Means]

I just assumed they'd make it somehow. I never really believed they would die. Maybe I didnt want to because they've both grown on me. I hope Skittles comes back too.

[Conf]

I don't see why either of them HAS to die, I really hope they're both okay. Seriously though Burt is the best I will never forgive KC for his death :p

[ToxicTofu]

Well of course neither of them HAVE to die, we are just saying that IF someone dies its most likely going to be Burt as we kinda know all we need to about him (or so we think)

[diosa]

I have a really bad feeling Saul or Liz are going to go. You know, to make it the most heartwrenching season finale ever. Hopefully I'm not in public when the shoe drops. I almost lost my s%it during the funeral at a supermarket. And Blondie is obviously pregnant, right?

[hate.deuna]

Couldn't she have stuck an arrow into the cloth and shot it back into the window? I don't want Burt to die... oh and Angel too. I guess.

[Conf]

the line ripped, i dont know if that would have worked

[MagicMike Kelley]

Well, the 2 sheets left aren't by accident. They'll be used somehow. Maybe set a fire in front of the door, zombies no likey fire?, then jump to the rescue basket. Or hell, if they're big sheets why not parachute down? Wouldn't need to be too crazy to slow their fall enough to survive through it, they aren't jumping from 20k ft or anything.

All said and done I don't theink either are dying here.

I will say this - "GET TO DA CHOPPA!" went through my head 1000 times while listening to this piece of the episode.

[cameron1223]

As I mentioned in the theory section I think that we may lose at least one character. If the two have a great fight with the zombies and manage to repel them one may get scratched. A scratch or a bite to one of the characters could cause one final teary goodbye between burt and angel before one shoots the other in the head and goes to catch up with the Riley. Any way this happens i'm worried that we may lose a great main character.

[SoMoney]

GET TO DA CHOPPA!
Angel, Kalani, and Riley have become to chummy lately to split up just yet.
I think the sheets have purpose!
#1. Wet 1 sheet and wrap around the door handles to hold it temporarily.
#2. Rappel down to one floor (finding more sheets!)
or (unlikely)
#1. Riley uses her bow but she will be hard pressed to find a string light enough to use as a leader for our hero's to pull a rope up to them.
or (Likely)
#1. Hover over roof and lower the winch! All rescue Helicopters have WINCHES.

Regarding Burt, Angel, or Riley's Death:
While were in a good spot in the story to loose a main character like Burt, it wouldn't be heart felt enough in this situation. When Datu met Hope for the 1st time, I dont know about you guys but I kinda teared up! (in a muy macho way!:). Riley and Angel have some relationship crap that still needs to be fleshed out so there safe. Burt's death to save the team doesn't have enough people involved for it to be a really heart wrenching loss here! I would be very disappointing to see him go in such an anti climatic way (only 3 witnesses).

[HardKor]

I do kind of feel like Burt needs to see Saul and/or Lizzie again to complete his story. If he's going to go out I think it will be saving their asses. The old guy goes out saving the young lovers, has a kind poetic ring to it.

[Magrat]

As I mentioned in the theory section I think that we may lose at least one character. If the two have a great fight with the zombies and manage to repel them one may get scratched. A scratch or a bite to one of the characters could cause one final teary goodbye between burt and angel before one shoots the other in the head and goes to catch up with the Riley. Any way this happens i'm worried that we may lose a great main character.

If we're going to lose a character here it'll be from the Riley Kilani end, just to mess with us. We're all expecting something drastic to happen to Burt or Angel because of the build up, so my money is on the others getting into hot water, again just to mess with us.

[cameron1223]

Fascinating way to look at it magrat and even though that makes plenty of sense i think the story would have more of an emotional impact if burt or angel died. After all emotion in these kind of things is extremely important.

[Magrat]

Fascinating way to look at it magrat and even though that makes plenty of sense i think the story would have more of an emotional impact if burt or angel died. After all emotion in these kind of things is extremely important.

After all the effort Burt made to get them to safety, if they die, possibly in an attempt to save him, it will not only be an intense emotional moment, but will cripple his character's spirit. But yes, from an emotional standpoint we are better suited to having burt or angel go.

[SoMoney]

Burt doesn't really have any real connection to these characters though. Angel would have left Burt for dead at L&L if it wasnt for Saul. Lizzy and Saul are the only characters which Burt shared his Wifes story with. The best death for Burt would be in some move against the maulers which saves Lizzy(pregnant) and/or Saul. A tearful farewell from one generation to the next and next to come. Hell I predict Lizzy will name the baby Burt if its a boy or Roberta if its a girl!

[GD_Elite]

I do kind of feel like Burt needs to see Saul and/or Lizzie again to complete his story. If he's going to go out I think it will be saving their asses. The old guy goes out saving the young lovers, has a kind poetic ring to it.


Burt doesn't really have any real connection to these characters though. Angel would have left Burt for dead at L&L if it wasnt for Saul. Lizzy and Saul are the only characters which Burt shared his Wifes story with. The best death for Burt would be in some move against the maulers which saves Lizzy(pregnant) and/or Saul. A tearful farewell from one generation to the next and next to come. Hell I predict Lizzy will name the baby Burt if its a boy or Roberta if its a girl!

I agree with these points. Burt/Saul/Lizzy's characters are so closely intertwined. They all bonded together on the initial fuel truck trip and as you said Burt told them about his wife. Burt recently bonded with Saul at LAX, and they got closer there. Also, Burt is responsible for Saul getting shot, and Lizzy getting kicked out of the tower and Burt feels very responsible for both these incidents. By now pretty much everyone knows that Burt should die an epic death by sacrificing himself to save others, and I believe that the perfect moment is him sacrificing himself to save/reunite these two.

This is exactly why I think that Burt will make it past this moment.

Angel on the other hand hasn't got as much going for him. While Burt telling the story by no means guarantees his survival, I think it sets up a great oppurtunity for him to narrate while the zombies do their business with Angel. After 23-1 everyone was waiting to find out what the zombies were planning, and I think this is a great way to show it. It is also important to note that Angel referred to previous episodes 3 times in the last episode. This seems to me like he had been doing his final goodbyes and shoeing his best bits before the end.

Also SoMoney, how about Shirley if its a girl?

[nikvoodoo]

Am I still the only one who thinks it is potentially far more interesting if Lizzy/Saul die, leaving the shattered and falling apart old man (who believes he's responsible for all of it happening) to try to pick up the pieces again and find a purpose? Especially with his apparent attraction to Tanya... isn't that an interesting storyline to tell?

[Osiris]

Am I still the only one who thinks it is potentially far more interesting if Lizzy/Saul die, leaving the shattered and falling apart old man (who believes he's responsible for all of it happening) to try to pick up the pieces again and find a purpose? Especially with his apparent attraction to Tanya... isn't that an interesting storyline to tell?

I would be ok with that. Though I'd rather see an end to Saul. He's clearly spinning off the deep end and becoming both a burden and a hazzard to the rest of the suvivors. It would be a nice arc for Lizzy to survive. Once more... she's on the losing end of life - first Todd and then Saul, stuck with Mallers and surrounded by evil. I could see fantastic things happening with that character. I'm feeling that Angel, Lizzy and Michael have interesting potential arcs.

[GD_Elite]

Am I still the only one who thinks it is potentially far more interesting if Lizzy/Saul die, leaving the shattered and falling apart old man (who believes he's responsible for all of it happening) to try to pick up the pieces again and find a purpose? Especially with his apparent attraction to Tanya... isn't that an interesting storyline to tell?

Personally, I wouldn't find that as interesting. Saul and Lizzy are the young couple. Theres still some mystery about their relationship and whats going on (pregnant or not?). Burt on the other hand has served his real purpose to the story I feel. There isn't really any mystery about him at all as he has been pretty open. Your point about us getting to see him as a shattered and falling apart old man would not be anything new, as he has been doing that pretty much the entire series so far (blames himself for tommy/saul/lizzy, can't shoot straight anymore). It may sound harsh, but in my opinion the only way Burt's character can progress is in a heroic death.

Also, I didn't notice any real attraction to Tanya. I'll give it another listen though.

EDIT: I don't think you can really justify that there a relationship between the two of them is hinted. He says he likes her, but that is obviously just a reference to the joke she made about Angel.

[nikvoodoo]

Personally, I wouldn't find that as interesting. Saul and Lizzy are the young couple. Theres still some mystery about their relationship and whats going on (pregnant or not?). Burt on the other hand has served his real purpose to the story I feel. There isn't really any mystery about him at all as he has been pretty open. Your point about us getting to see him as a shattered and falling apart old man would not be anything new, as he has been doing that pretty much the entire series so far (blames himself for tommy/saul/lizzy, can't shoot straight anymore). It may sound harsh, but in my opinion the only way Burt's character can progress is in a heroic death.

Also, I didn't notice any real attraction to Tanya. I'll give it another listen though.

EDIT: I don't think you can really justify that there a relationship between the two of them is hinted. He says he likes her, but that is obviously just a reference to the joke she made about Angel.

Burt has not been this way the entire series. In fact, he's barely been that way this season. Right up until Lizzy was kicked out, he was confident in himself and his abilities, even when leading the Tower (albeit in the wrong direction and even with the death of Tommy on his conscious). He had his confidence and was still able to shoot straight to save Mary's life in the garage. It's only been in the last 3 2/3 chapters that he's lost his edge entirely.

But what you're saying is there's no way to progress his character without a heroic sacrifice? What about seeing how a cowboy gunslinger tries to cope with his situation when he can't be a cowboy gunslinger anymore (which he has not hit rock bottom of yet....there's still room to fall in my opinion)? Or what about this: Saul or Lizzy being dead and Burt having to deal with the surviving member of that relationship?

I think this story arc has more legs to it if one of the members of the young couple with some mystery in their relationship has their relationship torn asunder and is left with a target for their anger. Especially if that dead person ends up being Saul....you know...the guy that Burt promised to keep safe when Lizzy left the Tower. That, to me, carries more weight than a heroic sacrifice because it creates conflict.

[Gunslinger]

Burt has not been this way the entire series. In fact, he's barely been that way this season. Right up until Lizzy was kicked out, he was confident in himself and his abilities, even when leading the Tower (albeit in the wrong direction and even with the death of Tommy on his conscious). He had his confidence and was still able to shoot straight to save Mary's life in the garage. It's only been in the last 3 2/3 chapters that he's lost his edge entirely.

But what you're saying is there's no way to progress his character without a heroic sacrifice? What about seeing how a cowboy gunslinger tries to cope with his situation when he can't be a cowboy gunslinger anymore (which he has not hit rock bottom of yet....there's still room to fall in my opinion)? Or what about this: Saul or Lizzy being dead and Burt having to deal with the surviving member of that relationship?

I think this story arc has more legs to it if one of the members of the young couple with some mystery in their relationship has their relationship torn asunder and is left with a target for their anger. Especially if that dead person ends up being Saul....you know...the guy that Burt promised to keep safe when Lizzy left the Tower. That, to me, carries more weight than a heroic sacrifice because it creates conflict.

I actually agree with Nik as far as things being interesting that way and that Burt has far to go before hitting bottom. The broken promise angle is also interesting and would cause some strife. Also, the heroic sacrifice bit is very done in this genre and many others. While its always a good bit, its kind of a heavily tread bit throughout a lot of literature. Its not to say it couldn't happen here, just that it would be kind of typical and expected sort of thing in a situation like this. Its the stock response, in a sense. Its stock because it works, but I think a lot of us have come to expect quite a different tact in this show.

The one thing I'm a little loathe to want is the Saul and Lizzy dying for the drama of Burt and some others. While it could be very interesting, and would be a change of pace, I'm not big on the melodrama and tortured guilt scenario. That's also a pretty stock turn of events, albeit perhaps less so than the heroic sacrifice. I'm looking forward to hearing what happens. Its so close, now. Maybe I'll go to the range after I hear it. =)

[GD_Elite]

@nikvoodoo and Gunslinger
Okay, I see your points. But when I weigh up the Saul/Lizzy death against the Burt death options I see this:

If Burt dies a heroes death, he can keep all his promises and go out with a witty one liner, leaving us with a good memory of an interesting character who stuck to his word.

On the other hand, We have one or both of Saul and Lizzy dead. This leaves us with one depressed character and one who is pissed off with him. I think this is by far the least interesting option. If Lizzy was seriously angry with Burt, I don't think this would come across well to us. We've had pissed off Lizzy shouting at Burt before.("I swear I'll never drink again" "I've heard that one before") It's already been done. I agree with nik that Burt was alright in the middle of the season when things were going dandy, but Burt has already done depressed on several other occasions.

Basically, depressed Burt bores me. A heck of a lot of people love Burt, and that is usually because of his awesome shooting and witty one liners. Without these he is dull. Sure, a good character will show emotion, but he's done that. Alot. More than Datu.

So, thats why I prefer the first option :)

[nikvoodoo]

And I will definitely say, GD, that I can certainly see the heroic sacrifice coming. It just depends on which way Kc decides to have the story fall. I do see either option as totally viable....I just like my way better :p

But as gunslinger touched on, no matter which way this shakes out: someone is going to be angry or upset about how it happens because it will be a been there done that thing. After all, since about 1200 B.C/the beginning of the written language....all the story lines have been told. They are all just rehashes of the same 7 basic story plots ever since then.

If you're unsure of what I'm talking about: this is what I mean (http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=210539)