no scouts??

[Kunja]

anyone else find it odd there hasnt been any talk of scouting out the army base? they could be walking into something ten times worse than the colony!

[7oddisdead]

ABSOLUTELY.... But. The the problem would be who do you send. As it stands they are stretched pretty thin with the people they have...and there's the element of surprise when they get there...good audio drama....if they do in fact ever get there...i certainly have my doubts

[Ra1th]

anyone else find it odd there hasnt been any talk of scouting out the army base? they could be walking into something ten times worse than the colony!

because it's FAAAAAAAAAAAAAR. And they don't have the fuel but yeah who knows what they're in for. Maybe army remnants.

[Kunja]

Angle and Riley of course! He's the ranking officer, and Riley isn't doing much but being a lush right now anyway... and once you got out of the city... the roads would probably be very managable... but on a realistic note... that may be impossible, because mother nature would start to work her magic on our infrastructure pretty quick with no one around to repair the damage...

[Kunja]

because it's FAAAAAAAAAAAAAR. And they don't have the fuel but yeah who knows what they're in for. Maybe army remnants.

its only like 250 miles round trip... the roads in the desert won't be clogged like the ones in the city... that could be made on one tank of gas.... I'm just thinking of 28 days later... where the men went rouge

[Hellbringer]

its only like 250 miles round trip... the roads in the desert won't be clogged like the ones in the city... that could be made on one tank of gas.... I'm just thinking of 28 days later... where the men went rouge

Also, once they somehow manage to get out of the LA area and make it to Barstow, the nearest town to Fort Irwin, there is only one road that connects the base to the town. That is one long, lonely road, and as I remember it, there are plenty of areas along that route to set up watch posts, ambush sites, and checkpoints. It would be hard to scout out the base by vehicle because of that. If the scouting party wanted to go on foot, they would have to travel over 30 miles on foot, one way. That can be done, but not in a reasonable amount of time to help Michael and Angel make a decision on whether to relocate there or not.

[Cabbage Patch]

Part of the problem with sending out scouts to recon a spot so far away is that the only way you can benefit from them is if they come back. It's too far for them to reliably radio information back. So they couldn't tell you if they ran into human/zombie problems, or let you know the places to aim for, or to avoid. Worst of all, the scouts could make it all the way to Fort Irwin, find that there is a safe, functioning community out there that's waiting to welcome the survivors with open arms, but then get killed on the way back.

Under these conditions it's probably better to keep your scouts close, and use them to check the road immediately in front of you. And even that's no guarantee of safe passage. Don't forget the Maller scouts had cleared the route the tankers took, but that didn't stop the zombies from ambushing them.

[Bravo Team Leader]

Yea good points. But why didn't the Tower keep a eye on the Mallers better? They could have had a Surveillance site or something. It would not surprise if the Mallers had one for the Tower.

It's not too far. The Unit I was in had Harris PRC-150 radio's and we could talk anywhere. That is if the antenna was correct. A regular PRC 119 radio has a range of around 5 to 10 miles so that's plenty. But they had regular CB radio.

[Cabbage Patch]

Good point. Even someone on the roof with binos and their ears open would have given the Tower better situational awareness; with no cars, planes or other people you should be able to hear a car running from miles away!

It's probably just as well that they didn't have an OP watching the Mallers, now that we know that they were listening to the Tower's communications. Better add secure military radios to the shopping list for the next trip to the Army Reserve Center. Along with night vision goggles, ammo, weapons, medical supplies...

[Bravo Team Leader]

Yea that's what the Mallers did..

[COsurvivor]

its only like 250 miles round trip... the roads in the desert won't be clogged like the ones in the city... that could be made on one tank of gas.... I'm just thinking of 28 days later... where the men went rouge

A couple things...

#1 - On a good day the roads are full, yet not clogged...

#2 - The roads East are mostly 2 lanes

#3 - a Holiday weekend you can wait HOURS to go anywhere East...

So to assume the roads would be clear would be suicidal. To assume anyone would reach the base with NO OPPOSITION is also. I assume Michale wants no scouts as to what happened when he scouted South... Best to have all your eggs in one basket to protect and to attack, if need be.

[Grognaurd]

I still do not like it.

Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance and the most important thing to consider is logistics. An air Bourne assault will require resupply in two to three days. What is the contingency plan for a destroyed base?

I assume the terrain is much like I have seen from San Diego to Temecula. Cars are not the only means of transportation and roads are not the only route. Over the past few days, cars, trucks and hummers have drawn little attention. Dirt bike baby.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Fuel, Time, Danger, equipment, distance and training. Those are the reasons.
-"it's only 250 miles rountrip" on a good day. It already takes 4 hours to get from one spot to the next in LA as it is. There is no refueling. This takes care of Distance as well.

- It takes 4 hours to get out of LA then you hit the burbs which will add more congestion. They only have the hummer to go off road. Time wasted. They'd need to find secure places to hold up during hours of darkness.

- Unknown dangers and known threats but unknown locations. They know there are infected, they don't know the strength(numbers) of the infected as they go further away from base. It could very well end up a one way trip or a half way.. one fourth way...

- They only have CB radios now. Limited range(leedo, no need to rehash what we already talked about on another thread concerning this very subject) Weapons, limited rounds. Properly equiped vehicle. Food, Water and medical supplies

- Victor, Saul and Burt are the only ones skilled enough to go out on their own. You'd have to have someone skilled or you end up wasting all of the above resources.
Victor has exp from the Colony
Saul has exp from The "Stan"
Burt has exp from The "Nam"
Each one of them has been BOG (boots on ground) during some intense times

[Grognaurd]

Dirt bikes have much greater maneuverabiity than the hummer and burn less fuel.

With the exception of distance, nearly everything said about the army base can also be said about Edwards. If there is one place that will have large suppies of JP5 it is an air force base. An air assault on Edwards still leaves more than enough fuel to return to the tower if things are too hot and does not require an all-in gambit.

Once a portion of Edwards is secured, they can still check out the other fort.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I hear you. I'd go to edwards myself, but I'm biased. ROFL! It's only shorter by so much though. They just don't have enough people. The only way I see this happening is an all out blitz. It's do or die. Everyone goes. Hail mary pass.
They hopscotch from spot to spot.
The thing about a cycle is that there is no protection. They may be more maneuverable, but they're at the mercy of the elements, runners and not just anyone can jump on one and go like you can in car.

[Grognaurd]

I have to double check. I thought it was about 1/2 way. Since this is all in our minds, I think the side streets as being pretty damn clear. We have seen a couple of examples of driving at 55mph. So, in my world, Freeways are F*-up while side streets are a go.

Hmm... maybe you are right, not just anyone can ride a dirt bike. I pretty much grew up on one, so I forget. Saul is a possibility. So is Lizzie. Unless Todd was an unnamed member of the Brady Bunch he probably did more than work on bikes. (yes, I realize that at the time of printing we do not have Lizzie)

I do not consider the elements a threat. As for the runners, from what we have seen, they run to the target. We have not seen them run to where the target will be.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

A rain storm in a world with debris scattered everywhere, and with creatures that don't care if it's raining and throw in a novice rider... disaster. limited visability and no protection. disaster. All it takes is a runner or a not so often seen jumper laying in wait and your done. In a car or truck your protected via overhead coverage and the metal shell.
Question: can't you hear a dirt bike or most motorcycles from a good distance away?
It's just me, but I'd never give up safety for agility. If you're trapped on a bike, your trapped. If you're trapped in a truck/car you have the option of making mashed zombie taters.

[Grognaurd]

Depends on the bike. Most motor cycles leave the factory running more quietly than they do on the road. But, people knock the baffles out to make them louder. As for runner or Jumper or a possible portal to Oz, the way I figure it is KC writing this so if I am supposed to get there I am golden, but he might put a red piece of paper on my back that says "eat me".

[GeneTwo]

If you think about it, you don't even need to send scouts to Fort Irwin. If its as well prepared as Michael said they should have a radio or some such. It would be easier if the survivors searched for some sort of radio gear at the National Guard station or heck just pick up a phone. Angel or Michael should know of some general emergency military radio frequencies to contact them.

And if someone does answer they can even throw out some military lingo to feel out if it is military they are talking to or just some bad guys faking it, a la Marcus.

Also if no one does answer they can expect the worst and go in weapons at the ready.

Come on, it wouldn't hurt to try.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

If you think about it, you don't even need to send scouts to Fort Irwin. If its as well prepared as Michael said they should have a radio or some such. It would be easier if the survivors searched for some sort of radio gear at the National Guard station or heck just pick up a phone. Angel or Michael should know of some general emergency military radio frequencies to contact them.

And if someone does answer they can even throw out some military lingo to feel out if it is military they are talking to or just some bad guys faking it, a la Marcus.

Also if no one does answer they can expect the worst and go in weapons at the ready.

Come on, it wouldn't hurt to try.

GeneTwo,

I wish it was just that easy to throw some Mil lingo and call it a day if someone answers back with a "good" response. Sadly, it isn't. Any badguy with a military background can do that. The other thing is that they (The Tower) would have to broadcast on a wide spectrum in the hopes of reaching anyone. That's piss poor SA when you know you have hostiles in your AO.
-Another thing is they HAVE upgraded their comm, but they did it too late in the game. The Mallers had all the intel they needed via the Mole and monitoring the airwaves.

Having said all that, this thread is kinda moot now considering they have a helo and are presently underway.

[reaper239]

couple things about bikes: 1. street bikes tend to be pretty quiet if the baffles are still in. i don't know about the desserts in cali, but in texas the desserts are flat and hard, almost like a road, but dustier. in fact, i've ridden in dessert on a street bike and the only time i felt any loss of traction was trying to make a somewhat sharp turn. cars can drive through the dessert as well. 2. my bike can out accelerate and outrun a runner because i leave hybrids like they're standing still. 3. any rider worth his salt can easily weave around debris. 4. it's a lot harder to get trapped on a bike than it is in a car. also, the only reason why it takes so long to get places is because people stay on the road. if i was in the zombie apocalypse, everywhere my car or bike can conceivably go is fair game: sidewalks, yards, off the highway. true some places are still impassable as the cars stretch from wall to wall, but if you can get your hands on a suv, you're golden, imo.

[GeneTwo]

GeneTwo,

Having said all that, this thread is kinda moot now considering they have a helo and are presently underway.

Yea, sounds kind of right... Speaking of the jolly green if in chapter 3 they don't decide on turning back and looking for survivors of the WA tower, the chopper still has a radio. Say your 100 or 50 miles away from Fort Irwin and still not use the radio sounds very incompetent.
Also I'm not talking about a wide spectrum, Im talking about a specific emergency channel directed toward Fort Irwin. The Cost Guard for example: your at sea, you get in trouble, you call them on a specific channel, something like that.

[Bray]

Isn't the reason they didn't scout because the Mallers attacked and they had to go because of this, before they attacked the tower was getting ready to go, but I thought they had agreed that they could make it there and back in one trip to check on the situation there? Then the mallers turn up, they lose one chopper and the tower goes down, now they have no choice but the put their eggs in one basket and go to Ft Irwin with what and who they had at that very moment.

I like the fact they weren't able to scout it though, adds an air of uncertainty to what will happen. Edge of the seat stuff.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Yea, sounds kind of right... Speaking of the jolly green if in chapter 3 they don't decide on turning back and looking for survivors of the WA tower, the chopper still has a radio. Say your 100 or 50 miles away from Fort Irwin and still not use the radio sounds very incompetent.
Also I'm not talking about a wide spectrum, Im talking about a specific emergency channel directed toward Fort Irwin. The Cost Guard for example: your at sea, you get in trouble, you call them on a specific channel, something like that.

I'm not exactly following this line of thought Gene2. Who would they be calling at the Ft? How would they know which channel to use or what radio type? Designated radio channels have to be coordinated then the information is disseminated so everyone is on the same page.. ahem, channel.
Anyways, let me know if i'm swimming upstream here.

[Cabbage Patch]

How would they know which channel to use or what radio type? Designated radio channels have to be coordinated then the information is disseminated so everyone is on the same page.. ahem, channel.
Anyways, let me know if i'm swimming upstream here.

The standard aviation Emergency/Guard frequencies are 121.5 MHz for civilians, worldwide, and 243.0 MHz for the US military (this was the "Dust-Off" frequency at Fort Irwin when I was stationed there). In normal times both are monitored round the clock by air traffic control. If you're looking for a functioning society it would make sense to try these two frequencies to see if anyone is still monitoring. Of course it's anyone's guess if Michael or Pegs would have known about these frequencies, and for all we know Pegs has been making calls on the Emergency frequencies all along and we just didn't hear because it wasn't central to the story.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Thats the thing Cabbage,

Your average civilian.. heck, your sub-average person won't know that or have the proper equipment (aircraft or military grade scanner/radio). Michael won't even know it as a non flyer and part time Soldier. All they can do is channel sweep and hope. That presents a danger in itself as they found out with the Mallers. Kalani would be... er, would have been-the only person who'd know that as common knowledge.
But, thanks for the knowledge because now A LOT of us have that

[Eviebae]

As to the idea of scouts. We'll never know if they would have sent scouts because they were forced into flight. That said, I wonder if they had a strategy for approaching the fort. Something like find a tall flat surface they could land on and that is free of zombies and then do a flyover.