Chapter 22- "Our Doubts Are Traitors" part 3

[j0be]

Somewhere to avoid

[AdrianHD]

Good episode. We finally got a feel for Ground Zero, which I've been waiting for.

[ZombieMama]

aaarg so short... but so good!
I was starting to think she's preggers

WHICH is not a bad guess, it probably made her more sensitive to the "air" near Ground Zero

[Bulldog711]

Hopefully we hear from Lizzy, Tar, and Bricks...................I NEED CLOSURE!

[j0be]

aaarg so short... but so good!
I was starting to think she's preggers

WHICH is not a bad guess, it probably made her more sensitive to the "air" near Ground Zero

So now the any vomit like symptoms mean preggers? :D

[ZombieMama]

Hopefully we hear from Lizzy, Tar, and Bricks...................I NEED CLOSURE!

fat chance.. Took place in one area.. and didn't leave there... ;_;

[ZombieMama]

So now the any vomit like symptoms mean preggers? :D

well, its usually one of the first signs if no tests are taken.

Not for everyone though. For me it was excessive sleepiness, and i probably threw up 10 times total... but farther in the 3rd and 4th month. However my sister in law was like clockwork... for her first 3 months every morning, noon, and night.. THE HORROR

[Boomstick]

Good episode, definitely a set up for the next chapter.

[Bulldog711]

man.....good episode....I see KC working as a zombie-Beethoven building up to a grande crescendo.........going to the hospital should be an interesting set of episodes

[Rock Daddy]

Good episode. Definitely setting us up for a huge finale!
There's so many different events happening. I just can't wait to find out! I think this chopper is definitely going to be used. It's getting fixed up, and Pegs elaborately described the interior layout for our minds.
THEORIES
* My belief is that ultimately, both of the choppers mentioned in this episode will be used (One team lead by Michael & One by Angel). However, one will crash, leaving the fate of that team unknown!
* Ground zero is harboring something BIG & BAD! Bad enough to sicken people who go near it! It may be chemicals in the air from a detonated bio-weapon making them sick...
OR pheromones emitted from a master, or "queen" zombie. Guess only time will tell!

[Bulldog711]

* Ground zero is harboring something BIG & BAD! Bad enough to sicken people who go near it! It may be chemicals in the air from a detonated bio-weapon making them sick...
OR pheromones emitted from a master, or "queen" zombie. Guess only time will tell!

I love this Idea rockdaddy......but lets think....isnt Englewood a crappy place? I'm from England/East Coast USA so maybe not as bad as rappers make it seem...I am guessing there was a secret research lab maybe amongst the crap?

[Rock Daddy]

I love this Idea rockdaddy......but lets think....isnt Englewood a crappy place? I'm from England/East Coast USA so maybe not as bad as rappers make it seem...I am guessing there was a secret research lab maybe amongst the crap?

This is a valid thought, Bulldog. It could be a "Resident Evil-Like" type of scenario with a lab underground... hmmm

[Bulldog711]

Saul WILL find Lizzy.....there will be a "Saul wants to kill Tar and Bricks but Lizzy prevents it" kind of a situation.......

[7oddisdead]

Wow...great episode. I knew Saul was gonna bail on em...ill save the rest of my thoughts til later

[Leet693]

Sounds like the tower is going to get into a battle with the Mallers. Saul and Lizzy trying to get to each other but getting bogged down by Mallers and zombies. Then the tower comes in with the chopper, and airlifts them and the hummer out (the type of helio they're using can do that).

[Guts Malone]

So Burt didn't mention anything about Pippn getting whacked? Odd

These short episodes are killing me

[Adventureless_Hero]

THEORIES
* My belief is that ultimately, both of the choppers mentioned in this episode will be used (One team lead by Michael & One by Angel). However, one will crash, leaving the fate of that team unknown!


I like this idea too. It kind of goes in line with what was mentioned on WND 17; you can have Kalani's chopper loaded up with all these nameless characters and then it crashes and everyone on it is dead. While Peggs chopper has Michael, Angel, Datu, Saul, Lizzie, etc.

I am very satisfied with this episode. We experienced "ground zero" and my boy Saul finally gtfo of there in search of Lizzie. I'm a bit of a romantic and the clingy type. So I've been hoping Saul would jet out in this Daniel Day Louis Last of the Mohicans style, "No matter how far, I will find!" epic journey to get blondie.

I'm excited to see what this excursion to the Hospital will be like. The Hospital was always my favorite level in Left-4-Dead. Awesomeness.

[VeritableHero]

They said it didn't have to do with the air at ground zero.

Would severe radiation make it hard to breath like that? Or, possibly a severe magnetic field?

[nikvoodoo]

Something interesting: Females are more sensitive to the Ground Zero....uh....issue. Pegs felt it first, Victor only felt it well after she felt sick. If you want to believe Lizzy suffered the same issue (and isn't preggers) note that Bricks and Tardust didn't get the same reaction. But then again Scratch didn't feel sick either so....

[HardKor]

Great episode!
It didn't answer any of the questions we've been focusing on, but that's just makes for the wonderful frustration any great show builds. Always leave us wanting more right?

I like that we're getting back to the questions about the zombies. First Tanya was talking about running more experiments and now we ground zero coming back into focus.
I seriously think the season finale is going to involve a mad dash to Fort Irwin and then end with the discovery that someone, most likely someone with knowledge of what caused the outbreak, is already there.

[Blood & Ice Cream]

arrghh! supershort episode!

but i found this piccy for the chopper fans! :D

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3424/3396465833_8c843c9607_o.jpg

[Leedo2502]

So now the any vomit like symptoms mean preggers? :D

I have to say that I was thinking that she was preggers too... which made me think back to KC's comment about how he might have plans for a spin off wich then got me thinking about a "Children of The Tower" kind of series... but alas it was just ground zero (or maybe Victor is really Victoria and she's preggers too!! <cue suspensful music. LOL)

[mush_rooms]

All I have to say:

1. It's about time, Saul!

2. And something BIG is coming. Haven't seen any zombies in awhile, and there's been all this buildup...yeah. Shit's gonna hit the fan soon. The crazier the better. I'm so pumped!!!

P.S. Hospitals are creepy, SO glad they're going there!

[Adventureless_Hero]

All I have to say:

1. It's about time, Saul!

2. And something BIG is coming. Haven't seen any zombies in awhile, and there's been all this buildup...yeah. Shit's gonna hit the fan soon. The crazier the better. I'm so pumped!!!

P.S. Hospitals are creepy, SO glad they're going there!

I agree on both points. Saul has been my favorite character throughout the entire story. He has a good morale compass, a good sense of humor, and is very loyal. I am glad he's finally riding off in search of Lizzie. I do fear that he may make the mistake of instantly killing any Mallers he sees around Lizzy. Tardust may end up a victim.

And about the hospitals; like I said before Left-4-Dead No Mercy was my favorite!

[Bulldog711]

As long as Bricks hangs around for a while I will be happy

[Ra1th]

I'm gonna troll you saul fans and have some fun. Saul is so dumb. Oh you're gonna go get in your car and run off and find lizzie? good luck, LA is one of the biggest cities in the world. You just got up and running after being bed ridden and half dead for the last month and now you're heavily medicated and running around abandoned LA trying to find one person oh and dont forget ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE you're stupid saul. oh and dumb.

[nikvoodoo]

I'm gonna troll you saul fans and have some fun. Saul is so dumb. Oh you're gonna go get in your car and run off and find lizzie? good luck, LA is one of the biggest cities in the world. You just got up and running after being bed ridden and half dead for the last month and now you're heavily medicated and running around abandoned LA trying to find one person oh and dont forget ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE you're stupid saul. oh and dumb.

don't go trolling if you can't handle people saying Angel is an idiot....you're inviting disaster upon yourself.

That being said, yes. Saul made a bad decision to leave the safety of the group and go search for Lizzy. But you know he's already attuned to the correct location. He already said he wanted to go investigate the explosion they heard, and that's probably where he's going to try to get to first.

[Paola]

Oh my brain hurts. So much going on in this episode. It was great. I had a feeling micheal was going to send Victor with Pegs. And for a second there I too thought she was preggers but prob not. I feel like victor likes pegs since he asked her about micheal but then again I may have just been small talk. Ground Zero....oh I can't wait to find out whats there. They said it was where it seemed to have started (right?) so if it was then what's up with the mystery chocking?? I think It may be a sort of zombie nest where they all go and maybe (like others have said) there is a queen zombie and harsh fumes and chemicals may be floating around. Maybe that's what is turning them but maybe not because that would mean that if pegs and victor inhaled the fumes of it (if it even is that since they said it didnt seem to be the air but if it wasn't
then what??) they would be turning into zombies too. Either way I'm looking forward to the finale. And on Saul...THANK YOU!!! I was waiting for something like this to happen. I sorta hoped he would do something like that especially after his comment about micheal wanting them to go after pegs but not Lizzie. I'm so excited and I don't think I can wait TWO WEEKS for another episode let alone idk how many more for the finale.

[mascaria]

That being said, yes. Saul made a bad decision to leave the safety of the group and go search for Lizzy. But you know he's already attuned to the correct location. He already said he wanted to go investigate the explosion they heard, and that's probably where he's going to try to get to first.

Didn't we say that Saul + Lizzy = both of them making horrible decisions for the sake of each other?
Romeo and Juliet didn't end well.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I'm gonna troll you saul fans and have some fun. Saul is so dumb. Oh you're gonna go get in your car and run off and find lizzie? good luck, LA is one of the biggest cities in the world. You just got up and running after being bed ridden and half dead for the last month and now you're heavily medicated and running around abandoned LA trying to find one person oh and dont forget ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE you're stupid saul. oh and dumb.

Nuh-uh! :P

I understand how the guy feels though. He'd rather do something, even if it amounts to nothing. If he learned that Lizzie died while he sat around on his thumbs, that could really fuck him up. My heart was recently broken, and BAD. So yeah, I back the guy who is willing to do whatever it takes to find his girl, even if it means running off with no plan and snowball's chance in Hell.

I don't know if he's in love with Lizzie, but with the world the way it is and considering the situations they have been through together, I'd say thier bond is strong. Love can make folks to stupid shit. Besides, I've already considered Saul to be a bit of a dork. He's not the brightest in the bunch, but looking back, he has had some good ideas that have helped the team immensely.

Unfortunately, I think this could also be the start of The Demise of Burt. He's probably going to give chase, find folks in trouble, and sacrifice himself, a final redeeming act.

[cupcakezombie]

I am pleased to hear about the amount of flying experience that Pegs has had, 80 hours. At least should put to rest some of the doubts about her suitability for being the second pilot. I know that 80 hours in a plane with your Dad, is different to flying a chopper, but it is a good start and a lot of the technical terms and stuff will not be too new to her.
I love, love, love that we have finally had someone go near ground zero, that seems like some crazy stuff!

[Ra1th]

don't go trolling if you can't handle people saying Angel is an idiot....you're inviting disaster upon yourself.

That being said, yes. Saul made a bad decision to leave the safety of the group and go search for Lizzy. But you know he's already attuned to the correct location. He already said he wanted to go investigate the explosion they heard, and that's probably where he's going to try to get to first.

yeah that happens no matter what i do so screw it, besides I don't even argue for angel all that much anymore

[nikvoodoo]

Didn't we say that Saul + Lizzy = both of them making horrible decisions for the sake of each other?
Romeo and Juliet didn't end well.

Hence my prediction two chapters ago entitled "Romeo Must Die." Britt still may be right in saying that Burt might sacrifice himself for Lizzy, but if he doesn't: One or both of them are toast.

[Grognaurd]

Once again, thank you very much for the episode. I will say I had hoped for some plot lines to close, before opening new ones, but it will just make the next few more interesting

Ok, I am going to update the silencer thread to include Saul. If he has gone off the rails to the point actually abandoning friends not just talking about it, he may have taken the silenced pistol himself. I will also flesh out the silenced MP5. There will be really mixed emotions when I show that Pegs was the last known person to have that MP5

I have to do a little work first. I want to read up on subsonic weapons. I know there used to be research on sub sonic waves as an area denial less than lethal weapons. Kinda like feeling the bass drum of a parade in your chest. At even lower frequencies it may even be subliminal.

I am wondering if the hospital is near ground zero. These red shirts may not have heard of the physiological effects of ground zero. We know that Ground Zero is BAD. More freaky zombies (Kalani) and makes people sick (Kalani and now personal experience). I will add to this that Skittles says Hospitals and bookstores are bad. More smart ones.

How many large hospitals are there in LA? It must be big enough to accept life-lift. It could also be a fictional place. I can see it now Kc and friends are multimillionaires and the lawyers come calling. How dare you? We ain't got no stinking zombies

[7oddisdead]

"Return in red" on a grand scale? That would be nuts

[Pikepaw]

Short but good episode. On the other hand, 5-3 was 10 minutes long. So when Pegs first was beginning to cough and almost puke, I thought she was pregnant. I believe Victor was thinking the same thing. I still think that Pegs is pregnant however and exposure to this "hot zone" will make her have a three armed zombie baby. Also, I think an idiot ball was dropped somewhere allowing Saul to go off on his own, we all knew he was a loose cannon. As soon as Burt started wondering where he was, I was like, "Great, Saul's run off to find Lizzie"

Personally if I were Saul, I would wait for the chopper, but obviously I'm not him. And clearly Michael trusts that Victor isn't the shooter to the extent that he has Victor drive Pegs to the airport. If Michael believed that Victor was the shooter or the shooter would continue shooting Tower folk, then there is no way Pegs would be riding with him. Plus, if Victor was the shooter, this would be a good opportunity to escape.
For the record, I do not believe Victor was the shooter. I don't think he had enough motive and I think Hope would have mentioned his strong scent. It also seemed to be well, if quickly, planned, so I think Riley was too drunk. Can't be Lewis, no drama there. Leaving Kelly...but there are holes in that theory too. ARGH! He must have been shot by a ghost!

[Grognaurd]

Pikepaw, Kelley came from the colony with Pegs and Victor. Pegs was the last known person with the silenced MP5. It is possible Kelley held it in the car as she drove and Pegs slept.

[Don Man]

this episode was really meh we are not going to hear a lot of ground zero for a while. The next thing will be Lizzy since we havent heard from her in a whole chapter and I also think that they will be going to get that other chopper in chapter 23

[Pikepaw]

Pikepaw, Kelley came from the colony with Pegs and Victor. Pegs was the last known person with the silenced MP5. It is possible Kelley held it in the car as she drove and Pegs slept.

No my problem with Kelly as the shooter is Pippin's last words of, "it's you" spoken in surprise. If the shooter is also the rat, and the rat killed Pippin to keep themselves hidden, then it couldn't be Kelly. Kelly was at the interrogation and was watching Pippin for six hours. That is lot's of time to reveal, "Oh by the way good chaps, I totally saw Kelly at the Maller camp a while back."
Did Kelly have the opportunity, of course, but some things aren't lining up. I have similar reasons as discussed in WND 16 as to why Kelly is unlikely. This is a difficult one folks, at least from how I see it.

[HardKor]

For some reason the description of ground zero is making me think of the Cowboy Bebop movie. Nanobots anyone? Lol.
I hope not, but if Pegs and Victor start seeing glowing butterflies...:p

[cupcakezombie]

I wonder why Victor asked about Pegs and Michael, and then when Pegs said they were good, he said "you sure?". Probably doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things, but seemed weird.
Then he jumped straight in to stand up for her later. Hmmmm....

[7oddisdead]

I wonder why Victor asked about Pegs and Michael, and then when Pegs said they were good, he said "you sure?". Probably doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things, but seemed weird.
Then he jumped straight in to stand up for her later. Hmmmm....

perhaps victor is doing a little investigating of his own...victor knows who would have access to a silencer..hes a crafty one!:D

[Mikeyd2tall]

if thats true then half the cast is pregnant. including angel and riley lol

[Mikeyd2tall]

YES @ children of the tower thing! great idea! XD

[Hellbringer]

As soon as I heard about the hospital, images of "No Mercy" from Left 4 Dead popped in my head.

[MrScott101]

Although I was beaten to the punch, it was kinda ironic that both ladies we're sick, Liz and pegs. So that tells me there is going to be a connection. We may not know exactly what that is yet but it may have to do with the z virus.

Saul is heading for the arena mainly because who else is going to cause an explosion like that. He's going to do it all Bon Jovi style in a blaze of glory, while Burt is going to chase after him and go down saving Saul, Lizzy and Bricks from deranged tardust.

Something big and bad will happen at the hospital, (someone else stated the skittles comment) and I just have a feeling it's going to be near epic.

Also the tower is beginning to spread itself pretty thin making it an optimal target which may prompt the rat to take more action and get discovered just before another attack happens. During that attack the first chopper will come in handy with the 50 cal mounted and turn everyone into swiss cheese!

Not as much action packed episode but it does build and did have more info. As much as I'm looking forward to the finale I also don't want to wait for the break, BUT I WANT ANSWERS!!!

[Paola]

I wonder why Victor asked about Pegs and Michael, and then when Pegs said they were good, he said "you sure?". Probably doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things, but seemed weird.
Then he jumped straight in to stand up for her later. Hmmmm....
That was the best part in the whole episode for me. When victor stood up for pegs. It was a definite awww moment. I seriously don't think he's the shooter.

[Kn1ckerb0cker33]

Well interesting episode this week. It still leaves what happened to Lizzy & Others still open to debate but we have a resurfacing of Victor and Pegs who haven't been on for awhile.

Speaking of Victor and Pegs, I intentionally believed that she might have been pregnant (as ZombieMama had stated on pg. 1 along with others).

But it seems that she and Victor stumbled near ground-zero which cause both of them to become sick, although it took a longer time for Victor to feel the effects that Pegs was already feeling awhile before which could lead to speculation on two theories.

1. Pegs is Pregnant (I find this doubtful, but plausible)
2. The effects of ground-zero could induce vomiting, trouble breathing, and/or blackouts and the inevitable changing into a "zombie/monster" thing.

I'll start speculation that the "virus" or sickness that caused ground-zero might have been a government project that was being tested on humans unknowingly in/around Inglewood or a government transport carrying the "virus" took a bad turn and leaked out by accident. It was said that "Ink" might have been responsible for the origin right? Maybe he was carrying a virus of some sort. I forget. (Credit to Rock Daddy for the chemical spill theory on pg. 1)

As far as "Bluejay's" discovery of the second chopper, its great that they found a second chopper but the fact that its on a hospital seems like it would be a high risk to acquire especially since Skittles mentioned that the smarter the hosts of the virus/sickness get the smarter and more cunning they are as "zombies/monsters." The mission to acquire the helicopter though could make a good episode.

Moving on, it sounds like we might finally figure out what happened to Lizzy since Saul 2.0 took off in the humvee at the end. Oh and Ra1th, chill out man. Even though you made a couple of good points...


I'm gonna troll you saul fans and have some fun. Saul is so dumb. Oh you're gonna go get in your car and run off and find lizzie? good luck, LA is one of the biggest cities in the world. You just got up and running after being bed ridden and half dead for the last month and now you're heavily medicated and running around abandoned LA trying to find one person oh and dont forget ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE you're stupid saul. oh and dumb.

it just sounds like you are trying to get back at people for "attacking" Angel. Chill. Good Points though.

Besides, I don't think Saul would wander around aimlessly. As others have said, Saul will probably make a B-Line to the explosion near the arena and granted it is dangerous at least he knows he has an idea of where he is going.

[Heyyouinthebushes]

Something interesting: Females are more sensitive to the Ground Zero....uh....issue.

I don't believe that can be said for sure. Seems to me that could be a result of individual tolerance, not gender-based tolerance.

RE: Thinking Pegs was pregnant, I think we all jump there because we expect Lizzie to be preggers. At most, one will be pregnant. Otherwise, you've got two characters with the same dilemma, and that makes one superfluous.

RE: Saul leaving...silly move that is great for plot. Also, it is a great way to get back to Lizzie's situation. Definitely Burt's chance at redemption by going after Saul, and may lead to his death.

Overall, I love that there are a number of plot lines that have opened up. The fact that Ground Zero has been introduced makes me wonder where the helicopter plot line will go. The copter plan is supposed to take them a long way from Ground Zero, but GZ seems too big a situation to deal with in only one chapter.

[Magrat]

if thats true then half the cast is pregnant. including angel and riley lol
Riley is a special zombie that made Lizzie, Angel and Peggs pregnant! It all makes sense now!
or... not. :P


It was great. I had a feeling micheal was going to send Victor with Pegs. And for a second there I too thought she was preggers but prob not. I feel like victor likes pegs since he asked her about micheal but then again I may have just been small talk.

I think Victor does have 'feelings' for little ol' Pegs, he even looked out for her while Michael was in the hospital back in the colony.
I also really liked it when Saul was getting stuck into pegs, she turns around with the 80 hours thing and he just goes "Seriously? Never mind! Do your thing!". I laughed. Scared an old lady on the bus.

Plus, the music behind the Inglewood discussion section (where Samantha is mentioned) is very cool. Inspiring & sad.

The way burt reacts after Datu says "It could make you worse than that" is cool. It's like 'oh yeah... zombies" It adds that little element of WHERE ARE THE ZOMBIES!? What are they planning?

All in all a good episode that pulls the story along without giving us any answers. Waiting a fortnight is going to suck!

[Magrat]

I eat by memory. But it doesn't really work when you haven't eaten something before...

[nikvoodoo]

I don't believe that can be said for sure. Seems to me that could be a result of individual tolerance, not gender-based tolerance.

RE: Thinking Pegs was pregnant, I think we all jump there because we expect Lizzie to be preggers. At most, one will be pregnant. Otherwise, you've got two characters with the same dilemma, and that makes one superfluous.

RE: Saul leaving...silly move that is great for plot. Also, it is a great way to get back to Lizzie's situation. Definitely Burt's chance at redemption by going after Saul, and may lead to his death.

Overall, I love that there are a number of plot lines that have opened up. The fact that Ground Zero has been introduced makes me wonder where the helicopter plot line will go. The copter plan is supposed to take them a long way from Ground Zero, but GZ seems too big a situation to deal with in only one chapter.

At the end of my post you quoted, I mentioned on Scratch didn't get affected in the same way Lizzy/Pegs were. I know I didn't exactly spell it out, but it was my way of saying "but maybe that's not the case." I kinda forgot we were talking about Scratch and some people around here thinks she's got a penis or some weird crap :p

Pegs puking opens up some very interesting possibilities and diminishes, in my opinion, the odds of Lizzy being pregnant. It's now the same sort of reaction we've seen from two women, and Victor (our resident badass) nearly had something horrible happen to him too. I think a more definitive answer will come when Kalani and crew try to procure the second helicopter from the roof of the hospital (which if we all remember is a place that Skittles said to avoid....dun dun dun!)

As for Ground Zero being wrapped up in one chapter: The Arena was a pretty big deal too. We were only in there for one chapter as well. 60 minutes (assuming each chapter part runs 20 minutes each) is a long time to tell a story. Hell, even on the low end of 15 minutes per that's still 45 minutes to tell a story.

I can rattle off a few theatrical pieces I've worked on that have told an entire story (including backstory) in 60 minutes. It's possible our first run in with Ground Zero might be told this upcoming chapter. Who knows?

[ZombieMama]

ok guys for all of you tagging Pegs and Liz with pregnancy, know that pregnancy puke is different than reg puke. I threw the idea because it's possible, but when you compare both instances, it's more likely that Liz is pregers.
The "morning sickness" women get is random, not necessarily before or after food, and your body literally keeps on retching after there's nothing left. Sound's more like Liz's incident.
Then again, a lot of people become extremely nauseous under pressure, dangerous situations, or even when they are scared. Just playing super devil's advocate here.

[cupcakezombie]

As for Ground Zero being wrapped up in one chapter: The Arena was a pretty big deal too. We were only in there for one chapter as well. 60 minutes (assuming each chapter part runs 20 minutes each) is a long time to tell a story. Hell, even on the low end of 15 minutes per that's still 45 minutes to tell a story.

I can rattle off a few theatrical pieces I've worked on that have told an entire story (including backstory) in 60 minutes. It's possible our first run in with Ground Zero might be told this upcoming chapter. Who knows?

Is that a Voodoo Lounge prediction I hear in the making? :)

[nikvoodoo]

Is that a Voodoo Lounge prediction I hear in the making? :)

Still mulling around in my head where I want to go since I did uh...well not as well as I normally do this chapter.

Kc opened way too many doors to have a solid idea of where the next chapter is going to go. We might go back to the Arena, we might get to ground zero, we might have a deeper investigation in the Tower for the rat, we might be abducted by aliens....

[Heyyouinthebushes]

Nikvoodoo: I would argue the Arena wasn't dealt with one chapter because it is still unresolved. The zombies are gathering there, presumably with a "plan" in place. The mallers efforts wouldn't have finished them off.

Likewise, I can see a chapter contained scenario with ground zero, but I don't think the broader story will benefit if all involved with ground zero is resolved in a single chapter. It will hold revelations to what led to the zombies/apocalypse. Though, as I'm writing this, I can see how ground zero can be used to shed some light into what caused the zombie apocalypse and then left alone with many unanswered questions. And this could easily fit in a single chapter. Fair enough.

Also, you're right, your commenting on Scratch effectively made my point.

Those mentioning zombie queen: what I like about this - can explain hive mind mentality of zombies a la bees. While Ink/caller zombie can "control" other zombies, that doesn't provide an answer why. A queen could produce hive-minded zombies. What I don't like about this - our current "official" understanding is that whatever changed everyone happened simultaneously around the world, meaning there are numerous queens that acted at the same time. It's not that a coherent story can't be created for this scenario, but implies the zombies are an their own "species", not converted humans. Also, it doesn't account well for the observation of "smarter in life, smarter in undeath".

[Gefroan]

what happend to skittles did he die? also saul, i knew he couldnt just have brushed it off like he played off... i hope there military base they are planning on moveing to is self effiecent, has huge walls and awsome defences! humvees and Strykers with a ton of gas and 2-3 helipads plus there 2 helicopters. then maybe they make the land around the base with mines and zombie traps. and make this base into a self efficent self independent fortress that can project huge military occupation etc lol

[nikvoodoo]

Nikvoodoo: I would argue the Arena wasn't dealt with one chapter because it is still unresolved. The zombies are gathering there, presumably with a "plan" in place. The mallers efforts wouldn't have finished them off.

Likewise, I can see a chapter contained scenario with ground zero, but I don't think the broader story will benefit if all involved with ground zero is resolved in a single chapter. It will hold revelations to what led to the zombies/apocalypse. Though, as I'm writing this, I can see how ground zero can be used to shed some light into what caused the zombie apocalypse and then left alone with many unanswered questions. And this could easily fit in a single chapter. Fair enough.

Also, you're right, your commenting on Scratch effectively made my point.

The storyline surrounding the Arena took one chapter. We wrapped up Datu being captured and brought to the Arena, and his subsequent escape/rescue. Much like the escape from the Colony only took one chapter. They arrived and were interviewed and then there was the chapter break. Then chapter 19 was a self contained storyline where we learned, planned and escaped the Colony. That doesn't mean we are done with the Colony, but we are done with that particular storyline. That's all I was trying to say. We don't necessarily tie everything up in a neat little bow, but we can have a one chapter escapade around Ground Zero, and make it back to the Tower in time for supper.

[Heyyouinthebushes]

The storyline surrounding the Arena took one chapter. We wrapped up Datu being captured and brought to the Arena, and his subsequent escape/rescue. Much like the escape from the Colony only took one chapter. They arrived and were interviewed and then there was the chapter break. Then chapter 19 was a self contained storyline where we learned, planned and escaped the Colony. That doesn't mean we are done with the Colony, but we are done with that particular storyline. That's all I was trying to say. We don't necessarily tie everything up in a neat little bow, but we can have a one chapter escapade around Ground Zero, and make it back to the Tower in time for supper.

Yes, I think, in many ways, we're trying to say the same thing. I think my original point was that, if we resolve all that Ground Zero can offer, it seems to minimize the importance of Ground Zero. Thus, introducing Ground Zero could have an implication on the helicopter/Fort Irwin plot because Fort Irwin is so far away from Ground Zero. However, a Ground Zero storyline that gives a couple answers but leaves a lot unanswered allows GZ to maintain its importance while the Tower crew makes their way to Fort Irwin.

[7oddisdead]

Glad to see some g z talk. Our who's the rat talk was getting old. So here's a thought...
how about a "new world order" type organization..(I know its cheezy, but best way to describe it) spreads themselves out across the globe with of coarse Ink as the leader....maybe. And releases a "catalyst " a simple biological weapon that can lie dormant for x amount of time ... Until something triggers it... Such as an infrasonic sound wave. Wave triggers bioweapon, bioweapon becomes active in host blood and spreads.... And mutates people into whatever there biological makeup was previous to said incident. Smarts get smarter ...on roids? ...now a giant....i dunno that's just how i would write it

[nikvoodoo]

Yes, I think, in many ways, we're trying to say the same thing. I think my original point was that, if we resolve all that Ground Zero can offer, it seems to minimize the importance of Ground Zero. Thus, introducing Ground Zero could have an implication on the helicopter/Fort Irwin plot because Fort Irwin is so far away from Ground Zero. However, a Ground Zero storyline that gives a couple answers but leaves a lot unanswered allows GZ to maintain its importance while the Tower crew makes their way to Fort Irwin.

We do seem to be saying the same thing, just with different words. :p

Yeah, I would never imagine that we would resolve everything that Ground Zero has to offer in one chapter. That...well quite honestly that would be the suck.

[Heyyouinthebushes]

Glad to see some g z talk. Our who's the rat talk was getting old. So here's a thought...
how about a "new world order" type organization..(I know its cheezy, but best way to describe it) spreads themselves out across the globe with of coarse Ink as the leader....maybe. And releases a "catalyst " a simple biological weapon that can lie dormant for x amount of time ... Until something triggers it... Such as an infrasonic sound wave. Wave triggers bioweapon, bioweapon becomes active in host blood and spreads.... And mutates people into whatever there biological makeup was previous to said incident. Smarts get smarter ...on roids? ...now a giant....i dunno that's just how i would write it

Right now, I'm largely with you. It does seem to be a well planned and organized event. My concern with a 'new world order' organization is that they tend to be covert government organizations, and 'getting to the bottom' of what caused all this would involve exploring the political conspiracy of said organization. I would rather it be an Umbrella Corporation style group that has extensive power but is less 'secret political conspiracy'.

[7oddisdead]

See that's why I was hesitant to use that phrase...i don't like the connotations that come with it either

[Walrusgus]

Downloaded and ready to go.

[Grognaurd]

Ground Zero

Some more obscure facts

Unlikely to be an accident, because it appears to be happening in several US cities. Internationally is a wild card. That subject was truncated on the TiVo.
The first zombies observed by Michael were putportedly to be covered in scars. If the description is accurate that implies old wounds.
Kalani said the other tower found a lot of strange things in Ground Zero. I have to review, but this could be strange zombies or items.
Scratch has a "weapon" that Latch found in a safe.

[mastafigz]

I think that the outbreak started airborne, and the survivors are people who are immune to the virus while it's airborne. Although the theory isn't air tight, it does play into many things:

1. Pegs and Victor got sick, maybe the virus didn't turn them into zombies, because they were immune to the airborne toxin, but the way it lingered in the air lead to them getting sick and throwing up.

2. It would also explain the explosions that happenned in the first chapters. Something was detonated which released the toxin, possibly a lab or a planned airborne attack.
-This does lead to multiple possibilities on an attack. It could be a terrorist attack, which would be an interesting spin on the series.
-Genocide: This is a longshot, but what if the toxins were being used to be rid of dangerous criminals, (possibly death row inmates), it was thought that there were riots, what if the reason that the toxins were released was the result of a riot in the prison?

I'm just thinking outloud, what do you guys think?

[MrScott101]

What if they do get to the military base and find that there is smart ones? Military grade zombies that can shoot guns??? eh eh

Look at the map and see distance from ground zero to the arena, I don't think it's close enough for the explosion to have that effect. I think ground zero has just had it there since day one. Plus I remember earlier episode/s talking about things getting worse the closer you get to ground zero (skittles maybe)?

[Grognaurd]

What are the typical wind patterns in LA? Coming in off the ocean headed East? The reason I ask is that if the causitive agent was airborn, I would expect to see a Plume. It would be a foci that spreads outwards ever dispersing in the wind. If the wind is headed south, envision a water droplet. It elongates before it "breaks". The plumage would be similar to that vision. Data collected by the tower was described as a "ripple" spreading from ground zero at about the same rate in every direction.

It could be there was no wind. Or, it could be a bunch of zombies radiating outwards.

[Bulldog711]

A couple of things;

a) When is the Season Finale?

b) I am interested to see/figure out where the timelines will intersect once we return to the arena and will KC string us along with Saul arriving 10 mins too late over and over as Lizzy goes searching for Saul?

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I'm gonna troll you saul fans and have some fun. Saul is so dumb. Oh you're gonna go get in your car and run off and find lizzie? good luck, LA is one of the biggest cities in the world. You just got up and running after being bed ridden and half dead for the last month and now you're heavily medicated and running around abandoned LA trying to find one person oh and dont forget ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE you're stupid saul. oh and dumb.

hehehe... Dun Dunn Dunn!
> Crowbar enters room.

Hey Ra1th, You my man are absofrigglutely right. He was dumb to run off without any help. He's young, brash and hot headed BUT! Saul's a TRUE trooper. He's going to go out guns blazing and not whine about being tired or hurt like a certain someone else. He's sucking it up like MAN, plus he's going to save his woman come hell or high water.
I'm pretty sure if it comes down to him having to lob a few molotovs he wouldn't have to worry about throwing like a girl either. ROFL!
Saul is hardly dumb! He's highly trained and non formally educated in medicine and combat life saving through his moms, The USA and life. His decision is the only stupid thing, but acts of courage ALWAYS start out looking stupid.

[Rock Daddy]

hehehe... Dun Dunn Dunn!
> Crowbar enters room.

Hey Ra1th, You my man are absofrigglutely right. He was dumb to run off without any help. He's young, brash and hot headed BUT! Saul's a TRUE trooper. He's going to go out guns blazing and not whine about being tired or hurt like a certain someone else. He's sucking it up like MAN, plus he's going to save his woman come hell or high water.
I'm pretty sure if it comes down to him having to lob a few molotovs he wouldn't have to worry about throwing like a girl either. ROFL!
Saul is hardly dumb! He's highly trained and non formally educated in medicine and combat life saving through his moms, The USA and life. His decision is the only stupid thing, but acts of courage ALWAYS start out looking stupid.

Well, what can we say? Everyone loves Saul! (Some more than others ) ;) I am amazed at how, because he is such a lovable character, he gets credit even when he makes bad decisions. It's like, "Hey, Saul's solid, so it's ok - Not like that Angel douche" Don't forget, Saul left the scooter outside the tower that led the Mallers straight to them originally. Sometimes, I want Saul to be the rat so bad because nobody would expect it, and it would be so crushing to so many! Mwah ha haaa!

[Zombiefrog]

First off i may and probably am wrong but with a little research on line and re listening to podcast, Pegs and Victor started to become ill and unable to breath but was not to do with the air could it be something that constricts the lungs? making them unable to inflate and harder to breath. Also lack of breath can make u feel sick. but then she felt sick first before the lack of breath! Apparently woman have smaller lungs (the pharynx and larynx are smaller) so would affect her first.

people have been saying that one of the helicopters might crash, we know one can land on water so maybe the other one crashes on water? maybe we will see the return of the zombies from over the airways episodes, that attacked pegs and Michael?

if one helicopter crashes maybe that crew gets splits up also.
i can't get my head around who the rat is. it makes sense that it would be someone who is a main character as it will not mean as much if it is some one that we have not herd from but who i think one moment its Kelly then i think its to easy to think that. it is going to be someone that we have not thought of. maybe Hope is talking to them and she smells something that reminds her of when the shooter was in the room. fear can do funny things!!

[Ra1th]

hehehe... Dun Dunn Dunn!
> Crowbar enters room.

Hey Ra1th, You my man are absofrigglutely right. He was dumb to run off without any help. He's young, brash and hot headed BUT! Saul's a TRUE trooper. He's going to go out guns blazing and not whine about being tired or hurt like a certain someone else. He's sucking it up like MAN, plus he's going to save his woman come hell or high water.
I'm pretty sure if it comes down to him having to lob a few molotovs he wouldn't have to worry about throwing like a girl either. ROFL!
Saul is hardly dumb! He's highly trained and non formally educated in medicine and combat life saving through his moms, The USA and life. His decision is the only stupid thing, but acts of courage ALWAYS start out looking stupid.

I think saul said it best in the beginning. Throw a hail mary pass, high risk, high reward. You pull it off, you're a hero. Fail and you're a dumbass. He's pulled off miracles over and over again, but how many times can lady luck save him? he's gonna fail eventually, and when he does, it won't be pretty

[nikvoodoo]

I think saul said it best in the beginning. Throw a hail mary pass, high risk, high reward. You pull it off, you're a hero. Fail and you're a dumbass. He's pulled off miracles over and over again, but how many times can lady luck save him? he's gonna fail eventually, and when he does, it won't be pretty

The more I think of it, the more I think it's probably not Saul and Lizzy=Romeo and Juliet....it's probably going to end up Saul and Lizzy=Tony and Maria (West Side Story). Maybe only one of them die.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Well, what can we say? Everyone loves Saul! (Some more than others ) ;) I am amazed at how, because he is such a lovable character, he gets credit even when he makes bad decisions. It's like, "Hey, Saul's solid, so it's ok - Not like that Angel douche" Don't forget, Saul left the scooter outside the tower that led the Mallers straight to them originally. Sometimes, I want Saul to be the rat so bad because nobody would expect it, and it would be so crushing to so many! Mwah ha haaa!

LOL.. rock you dick!
Saul isn't a "Thinker" anyway. This is why you can't leave him and Burt alone for too long. They'd get in way too much trouble. Saul is your point man. Saul is the Sidekick. Saul is that cat who says he's going to do it then goes out and does it.
Remember that he'd outrank Mike if it wasn't for his mouth, which in the military means he was that kid who was good at what he did, so they put up with him and punished him by promoting his peers.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I think saul said it best in the beginning. Throw a hail mary pass, high risk, high reward. You pull it off, you're a hero. Fail and you're a dumbass. He's pulled off miracles over and over again, but how many times can lady luck save him? he's gonna fail eventually, and when he does, it won't be pretty

It's the trying that is important. The will to "DO." The Hail Mary Pass is what the American Spirit is built on. Franklin and lightning experiment, Kitty Hawke, If the glove does not fit, you must aquit.. all HMP's! You have to fail for it to suck. When/If Saul's luck ever runs out then... like I said, it will be Wild West Style. He's going out guns blazing. It'll be a warriors death.

[yarri]

yeah that happens no matter what i do so screw it, besides I don't even argue for angel all that much anymore

And you had best not after that crack about Saul. Really, seriously you go after Saul ?

[yarri]

LOL.. rock you dick!
Saul isn't a "Thinker" anyway. This is why you can't leave him and Burt alone for too long. They'd get in way too much trouble. Saul is your point man. Saul is the Sidekick. Saul is that cat who says he's going to do it then goes out and does it.
Remember that he'd outrank Mike if it wasn't for his mouth, which in the military means he was that kid who was good at what he did, so they put up with him and punished him by promoting his peers.

At least he is going to try and help Lizzie. If Saul has to go down I want him to go down with guns blazing and Blondie on his arm. He is such a good character he deserves either a good death or maybe lady luck will smile at him one more time.

[Zombiefrog]

Way out there theory: hostage situation saul gets caught as well as Lizzy scratch wants to trade them for pegs, Michael sets up a fake trade when all goes wrong Saul or Lizzy dies we are expecting saul that's why lizzy could be the one to go that would also crush saul and me as i am an hopeless romantic!!
,

[Leedo2502]

I'm gonna troll you saul fans and have some fun. Saul is so dumb. Oh you're gonna go get in your car and run off and find lizzie? good luck, LA is one of the biggest cities in the world. You just got up and running after being bed ridden and half dead for the last month and now you're heavily medicated and running around abandoned LA trying to find one person oh and dont forget ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE you're stupid saul. oh and dumb.

I'll give you that it was a stupid play... that being said I've been in love. Love will make you do stupid things. Saul is a determined armed Soldier (and fellow Infantryman) that will stop at nothing to get the love of his life back and woe to he who stands in his way.

[yarri]

I'll give you that it was a stupid play... that being said I've been in love. Love will make you do stupid things. Saul is a determined armed Soldier (and fellow Infantryman) that will stop at nothing to get the love of his life back and woe to he who stands in his way.

:) Saul has the luck of the gods. If anyone can pull it off he can.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I'll give you that it was a stupid play... that being said I've been in love. Love will make you do stupid things. Saul is a determined armed Soldier (and fellow Infantryman) that will stop at nothing to get the love of his life back and woe to he who stands in his way.

Hahah. I didn't even think about all the hormones! Good catch. Love will make you do some seriously stupid ish. Leedo, remember the saying "Young, Dumb and full of...?"

[Leedo2502]

Hahah. I didn't even think about all the hormones! Good catch. Love will make you do some seriously stupid ish. Leedo, remember the saying "Young, Dumb and full of...?"

"Young Dumb and full of Love" right?? LOL

[yarri]

"Young Dumb and full of Love" right?? LOL

Lots and lots of Love?

[zombiederek]

Well, what can we say? Everyone loves Saul! (Some more than others ) ;) I am amazed at how, because he is such a lovable character, he gets credit even when he makes bad decisions. It's like, "Hey, Saul's solid, so it's ok - Not like that Angel douche" Don't forget, Saul left the scooter outside the tower that led the Mallers straight to them originally. Sometimes, I want Saul to be the rat so bad because nobody would expect it, and it would be so crushing to so many! Mwah ha haaa!

I have to agree with this. Saul has become really annoying and he used to be my second favorite. It makes no sense at all to leave the group and go on a needle in a haystack search for Lizzy. Yeah it really sucks that she is gone, but there is no way in hell he is going to be able to find her on his own with no clues.

[Leedo2502]

I like the idea that Arthur tossed out... If we are going with the idea that the Zombie outbreak is man made then Ground Zero would naturally be the site of the lab or instalation that was doing the Z research. They'd know about how the zombies work and any weaknesses and the ability to create countermeasures to exploit those weaknesses.

That being said maybe the effects that "Don't call me Vic" and Peggs were experiencing was due to an area deniability device such as Arthurs subsonic device idea or a microwave device like the Army and some police departments have, or it could be a device that KC made for the plotline of the story. This would have the benifit of keeping the Zombies away and also keeping any survivors away from the possible facility.
It would also explain why other animals are no where to be seen in the area as it would affect them as well. And so far in the story we haven't seen if animals are affected by the Z "virus" (or whatever it is), which also piqued my thoughts on an area deniability device.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Acoustic_Device

[nikvoodoo]

I have to agree with this. Saul has become really annoying and he used to be my second favorite. It makes no sense at all to leave the group and go on a needle in a haystack search for Lizzy. Yeah it really sucks that she is gone, but there is no way in hell he is going to be able to find her on his own with no clues.

It may be a needle in a haystack, but Saul knows exactly where he's going right now. There's only been one big major happening in the city of L.A. since he left the Tower on his passion filled mission, and I'd think it's a pretty safe bet he's headed to the Arena right now.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

It may be a needle in a haystack, but Saul knows exactly where he's going right now. There's only been one big major happening in the city of L.A. since he left the Tower on his passion filled mission, and I'd think it's a pretty safe bet he's headed to the Arena right now.

Yah, they think Saul is stupid. LOL. He's anything but that. He has yet to do anything without the means to do it or information.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I like the idea that Arthur tossed out... If we are going with the idea that the Zombie outbreak is man made then Ground Zero would naturally be the site of the lab or instalation that was doing the Z research. They'd know about how the zombies work and any weaknesses and the ability to create countermeasures to exploit those weaknesses.

That being said maybe the effects that "Don't call me Vic" and Peggs were experiencing was due to an area deniability device such as Arthurs subsonic device idea or a microwave device like the Army and some police departments have, or it could be a device that KC made for the plotline of the story. This would have the benifit of keeping the Zombies away and also keeping any survivors away from the possible facility.
It would also explain why other animals are no where to be seen in the area as it would affect them as well. And so far in the story we haven't seen if animals are affected by the Z "virus" (or whatever it is), which also piqued my thoughts on an area deniability device.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Acoustic_Device

HOLY SH..! Now that is an awesome theory dude! The Vomit Gun!! One of a few FP measures out there.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

The only thing is that they'd need someone to check the device. The owner would have to be monitoring it and the area. Eye in the Sky maybe? They'd also need to have one in every country and state's ground Zero.

[Ra1th]

It's the trying that is important. The will to "DO." The Hail Mary Pass is what the American Spirit is built on. Franklin and lightning experiment, Kitty Hawke, If the glove does not fit, you must aquit.. all HMP's! You have to fail for it to suck. When/If Saul's luck ever runs out then... like I said, it will be Wild West Style. He's going out guns blazing. It'll be a warriors death.

But that's jus the thing, like rock just said he gets a free pass for being lovable, if that was Angel who had just ran after Riley right now, how much crap would he have gotten? Tons! The way I see it Saul says smart things and gives wise advise BUT makes dumb decisions but people love him anyway. Angel says dumb things which annoy some people but his actions are fairly thought out ( if he has time ).

And man even if here are some great success stories of hail mary passes, for every success there are a 100 failures that no one ever talks about. Saul is on a crash course for disaster


And yarri yeah I'll give Saul shit. No one else does. He fucked up and because the entire forum is one huge Saul fan club no one calls him on the stupid stuff he pulls.

[nikvoodoo]

It would also explain why other animals are no where to be seen in the area as it would affect them as well. And so far in the story we haven't seen if animals are affected by the Z "virus" (or whatever it is), which also piqued my thoughts on an area deniability device.

We know that animals aren't affected by the virus (or whatever it may be). Marcus tells us his dogs aren't capable of changing and we've seen a bird eating a behemoth's "corpse" to no ill effect.

[Leedo2502]

The only thing is that they'd need someone to check the device. The owner would have to be monitoring it and the area. Eye in the Sky maybe? They'd also need to have one in every country and state's ground Zero.

I'm thinking that, if it is indeed protecting some facility, that they have the place ringed with them.
Maybe they even have layers of defense... the Less than lethal ring with the Sonic and microwave devices
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System
The layer with maybe mines or something
Then a layer with actively monitored weapons like the RWS's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_weapon_system

[Leedo2502]

We know that animals aren't affected by the virus (or whatever it may be). Marcus tells us his dogs aren't capable of changing and we've seen a bird eating a behemoth's "corpse" to no ill effect.

Right which made me wonder why it is that the animals were no where near Ground Zero... it could be the Area Deniability Devices affecting them

[Ra1th]

LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENING! You all just said oh he's in love and let him off the hook! Damn saul fans

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I'm thinking that, if it is indeed protecting some facility, that they have the place ringed with them.
Maybe they even have layers of defense... the Less than lethal ring with the Sonic and microwave devices
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System
The layer with maybe mines or something
Then a layer with actively monitored weapons like the RWS's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_weapon_system

ah. I follow you know. I was thinking it was being used to keep people out of the area instead of a security device.

[Leedo2502]

The only thing is that they'd need someone to check the device. The owner would have to be monitoring it and the area. Eye in the Sky maybe? They'd also need to have one in every country and state's ground Zero.

If my theory holds true you'd for sure have that place ringed with a ton of surveillance assets as well

[nikvoodoo]

Right which made me wonder why it is that the animals were no where near Ground Zero... it could be the Area Deniability Devices affecting them

Gotcha. I now follow your logic now. I didn't connect the two thoughts for some reason.

[Leedo2502]

Gotcha. I now follow your logic now. I didn't connect the two thoughts for some reason.

No harm... I wrote it quick so I blame myself LOL

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENING! You all just said oh he's in love and let him off the hook! Damn saul fans

We didn't let him off the hook. We gave reason. One that I didn't think about until Leedo said something. You're comparing Apples and Oranges with Saul leaving and Angel ditching Hope.

Saul is a "Saver." He risked his OWN life to go after lady and got stuck in the trunk and now he's doing the same thing for Lizzie. He's loyal to a fault. Sure it's dumb to go off on your own, but he's not putting anyone else at risk but himself.
Michael already knows that Saul is capable of doing some crazy crap once he gets his panties in a bunch.

[nikvoodoo]

LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENING! You all just said oh he's in love and let him off the hook! Damn saul fans

Not to restart the war (which I see is brewing in your frustrations right now), but the major difference has to do with the positions in the Tower Saul holds vs. Angel. Saul isn't really a part of the command structure in the Tower. His opinion is valued, but he's the "doer" of the three soldiers and the big difference is: Saul's actions are self-destructive. Him running off right now in theory should do no damage to anyone but himself.

Of course, that's not the case because someone is going to go looking for him instead of leaving him twisting in the wind like they probably should.

[Zombiefrog]

I like the idea that Arthur tossed out... If we are going with the idea that the Zombie outbreak is man made then Ground Zero would naturally be the site of the lab or instalation that was doing the Z research. They'd know about how the zombies work and any weaknesses and the ability to create countermeasures to exploit those weaknesses.

That being said maybe the effects that "Don't call me Vic" and Peggs were experiencing was due to an area deniability device such as Arthurs subsonic device idea or a microwave device like the Army and some police departments have, or it could be a device that KC made for the plotline of the story. This would have the benifit of keeping the Zombies away and also keeping any survivors away from the possible facility.
It would also explain why other animals are no where to be seen in the area as it would affect them as well. And so far in the story we haven't seen if animals are affected by the Z "virus" (or whatever it is), which also piqued my thoughts on an area deniability device.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Acoustic_Device

I like this idea! did the lab make them? did they escaped? or let out? or was the lab placed there at ground z after the outbreak to conduct tests?!?!?!?!?! with the area deniability device, protecting the scientist. on another note animals know when something is not right. and are hiding, don't want to be eaten.

[Leedo2502]

Also in line with the LRAD or ADS idea there are smaller man-portable versions... this could be the weapon that Scratch was talking about.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Also in line with the LRAD or ADS idea there are smaller man-portable versions... this could be the weapon that Scratch was talking about.

and found in yet another safe.. I can buy that for a dollar! BUT, would such a "weapon" work on the creatures? We know some of them can be knocked out. Some feel pain, and some know fear. So, maybe a device that uses sonics could possibly work.

[Leedo2502]

and found in yet another safe.. I can buy that for a dollar! BUT, would such a "weapon" work on the creatures? We know some of them can be knocked out. Some feel pain, and some know fear. So, maybe a device that uses sonics could possibly work.

I don't think we've gotten any evidence that these won't work... The ADS produces alot of pain and the LRAD makes you sick as a dog and it'll probably work on the Zombies since they don't seem to be the Romero undead type (such as the chloroform working on them).

[Ra1th]

Not to restart the war (which I see is brewing in your frustrations right now), but the major difference has to do with the positions in the Tower Saul holds vs. Angel. Saul isn't really a part of the command structure in the Tower. His opinion is valued, but he's the "doer" of the three soldiers and the big difference is: Saul's actions are self-destructive. Him running off right now in theory should do no damage to anyone but himself.

Of course, that's not the case because someone is going to go looking for him instead of leaving him twisting in the wind like they probably should.

Wow good answer, I'll take that.

[Z Sniper]

Wow good answer, I'll take that.

Me too!

Let's start by saying, "STUPID, STUPID, STUPID!" Yeah, I'm so whooped on this Lizzy, I'm just gonna take my sick ass outta here and one of our much needed vehicles and,....soooo loooong suckas!

Never mind the objective at hand, it's all about me and my woman!

SAUL'S SELF-DESTRUCTIVE BEHAVIOR FAILURES:
1. Sick. Could pass out, get infection.
2. Numb nut in love. Yes, he's worried and tired of sitting on his ass, thinking no one is willing to look for Lizzy, but hold on to your left nut and take it!
3. Endangerment. Saul has now put other people at risk pulling his stupid stunt. It's likely Burt, feeling he's partly at fault will want to go after him and he's not in the best condition to do so either.

VICTOR SHOULD BEAT HIS ASS!

[smalls kenobi]

all i got to say is, i lived in Inglewood for 13 years of my life, and even i wont drive through there, Zombie Apocalypse or not, haha :P

[Kc]

Me too!

Let's start by saying, "STUPID, STUPID, STUPID!" Yeah, I'm so whooped on this Lizzy, I'm just gonna take my sick ass outta here and one of our much needed vehicles and,....soooo loooong suckas!

Never mind the objective at hand, it's all about me and my woman!

SAUL'S SELF-DESTRUCTIVE BEHAVIOR FAILURES:
1. Sick. Could pass out, get infection.
2. Numb nut in love. Yes, he's worried and tired of sitting on his ass, thinking no one is willing to look for Lizzy, but hold on to your left nut and take it!
3. Endangerment. Saul has now put other people at risk pulling his stupid stunt. It's likely Burt, feeling he's partly at fault will want to go after him and he's not in the best condition to do so either.

VICTOR SHOULD BEAT HIS ASS!

Boy, that was so nonobjective ;) I wonder if someone's somewhat slighted towards Victor ;)

[Leet693]

I don't know about g z but I think we can assume several things about the outbreak:
1 It can't be spread by air or else people would be gettting infected faster than the zombies could move
2 It's a pathogen that effects the nervous system, primarily the prefrontal cortex and the brain stem
3 The "smarter in life smarter in death" idea could hold up if the prefrontal cortex was used more (like a muscle gets stronger) and was less effected
4 It's spread through direct contact with blood or Datu would've been infected

Assuming KC planned for all this (which I think he did) the pathogen was tailored made to turn people into zombies. A biological weapon in essence. Something that sophisticated would have to be produced by someone with a lot of resources and motive. And the fact that for it to spread to Hawaii it would probably have to be delivered there by terrorist/agent/crazy guy because of how fast people turn. In other words a 4 some hour plane ride to Hawaii with an infected on board would crash quickly.

Sorry if this has already been posted but I've read everything in this thread so I thought I'd give my input

[ilanagl]

Great episode! I can't wait until they go to the hospital the hospital level was the best one in L4D and the creepiest.
And saul is an idiot. I understand why he did that but still.

[Walrusgus]

I can't remember if previously the area where the the "gas" was had been marked out? Can someone please tell me? Great episode though as usual. Good work team!
Will we find out what happened to Lizzy in the next chapter through Saul? I hope so. Can't these weeks go faster!

[nikvoodoo]

I can't remember if previously the area where the the "gas" was had been marked out? Can someone please tell me? Great episode though as usual. Good work team!
Will we find out what happened to Lizzy in the next chapter through Saul? I hope so. Can't these weeks go faster!

Are you asking where the fuel depot is where Burt, Saul and Lizzy stole a tanker from the Mallers? That's marked out on the Map and it's actually very close to where LAX is. when you look on the map, that big vacant area where there are no roads just to the right of the Pumping Station: That's LAX

[nikvoodoo]

Hey for those of you who know all that amazing information on the Jolly Green Giant: I've created the wiki article for the chopper here: http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Jolly+Green+Giant

So feel free to plug in all that information you gave us! :)

[Walrusgus]

Are you asking where the fuel depot is where Burt, Saul and Lizzy stole a tanker from the Mallers? That's marked out on the Map and it's actually very close to where LAX is. when you look on the map, that big vacant area where there are no roads just to the right of the Pumping Station: That's LAX

That was a very good explanation. I was talking about when Pegs was feeling sick and coughing and then Angel said it was because she was in the area which Michael had circled previously. I couldn't remember previously hearing about this.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I agree with Britt when she says Burt is going to be the next major character to die simply because I think his character has been messing up royaly. To have Burt chase after Saul and then die trying to rescue he and Lizzie seems likely. My buddy Hector seems to disagree though saying that Burt just invented remote explosives making him an even bigger asset to the Tower and therefore "unkillable" at this point.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Not to restart the war (which I see is brewing in your frustrations right now), but the major difference has to do with the positions in the Tower Saul holds vs. Angel. Saul isn't really a part of the command structure in the Tower. His opinion is valued, but he's the "doer" of the three soldiers and the big difference is: Saul's actions are self-destructive. Him running off right now in theory should do no damage to anyone but himself.

Of course, that's not the case because someone is going to go looking for him instead of leaving him twisting in the wind like they probably should.

I also think everyone is forgetting how KC has wrote his character's personality. I think KC wrote him like d'Artagnan. LOL
He's the risk taker, I'm sorry but dude is gonna do some stupid ish because that's how he's wired/written. Pluse being P'Whipped is a mugg! ROFL!

[j0be]

I'm not sure if anyone posted about this yet, and I'm really busy this week, so no time to read through 120 posts.

Did anyone else think Kc dropped the "it's a pelican because it can land on water" as a foreshadowing?

[Rock Daddy]

I'm not sure if anyone posted about this yet, and I'm really busy this week, so no time to read through 120 posts.

Did anyone else think Kc dropped the "it's a pelican because it can land on water" as a foreshadowing?

Yes J0be! I don't know how... But it will come into play. Bad things are going to happen with this helicopter trip. I know it! Maybe Kalani will finally have a heart attack, and Pegs will have to make an emergency landing. ;) The possibilities are endless!
-Rock

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Yes J0be! I don't know how... But it will come into play. Bad things are going to happen with this helicopter trip. I know it! Maybe Kalani will finally have a heart attack, and Pegs will have to make an emergency landing. ;) The possibilities are endless!
-Rock

LOL. Dude, you just want somebody to die is all.

[Kn1ckerb0cker33]

I'm not sure if anyone posted about this yet, and I'm really busy this week, so no time to read through 120 posts.

Did anyone else think Kc dropped the "it's a pelican because it can land on water" as a foreshadowing?

Yeah, as Rock Daddy mentioned, it could result in some emergency landing scenarios, but it could always be a device that KC is thinking of using to move the story along and/or explain why and how they might survive a crash landing near water.

[nikvoodoo]

Yeah, as Rock Daddy mentioned, it could result in some emergency landing scenarios, but it could always be a device that KC is thinking of using to move the story along and/or explain why and how they might survive a crash landing near water.

Not to say that you're wrong, because Kc does drop hints like that often, but there's really not a lot of water in the direction they are supposed to be flying.

[Kn1ckerb0cker33]

Not to say that you're wrong, because Kc does drop hints like that often, but there's really not a lot of water in the direction they are supposed to be flying.

True, but I wouldn't rule it out at least at this point. Usually if it is mentioned something like this usually has something to do with a future event in the storyline. How exactly it might be written into the story, I have no idea. Any lakes nearby?

[Rock Daddy]

LOL. Dude, you just want somebody to die is all.

LOL Crowbar you're right man! Sorry if it's kind of morbid. I think I just need some tragedy added back into the mix. This is a story about survival, but there's too many people surviving lately. At least I don't want Hope to die! :)

[nikvoodoo]

True, but I wouldn't rule it out at least at this point. Usually if it is mentioned something like this usually has something to do with a future event in the storyline. How exactly it might be written into the story, I have no idea. Any lakes nearby?

From what I can see in google maps, No. There is no body of water between LA and Fort Iwrin in a direct route. Since this was a voice over and not dialogue, I'm personally inclined to believe that Elisa might have been called in to do a retake on the narration, adding the lines about the chopper being a Pelican to help clarify the situation. There was a recording date scheduled just before the release of this chapter part so it could have been done there and dropped in after seeing the epic helicopter discussion on the forum.

But again, who knows other than Kc and crew?

[Grognaurd]

With so much lack of faith in Pegs, maybe she flies west and has to ditch before finding Fort Irwin. Just kidding.

[Adventureless_Hero]

What if the shooter and/or rat are on board one of the helicopters and decides to hijack it with the pilot at gunpoint, forcing them to land near some body of water? It's just a random theory fueled by the current discussion.

I was wondering about the title of the chapter, "Our Doubts are Traitors". Do you think aside from the rat and Pippin situation it could also refer to how Burt is doubting himself, causing his hands to shake? Or Sauls doubt that anyone is concerned about Lizzie caused him to be a traitor (using the term loosely) in a way that he would break his promise to wait at LAX?

[Rock Daddy]

What if the shooter and/or rat are on board one of the helicopters and decides to hijack it with the pilot at gunpoint, forcing them to land near some body of water? It's just a random theory fueled by the current discussion.


Great idea, hero!
What if the hijackers want to go to one of the islands, or something? (Even though we know that's a bad idea because they're zombie infested)

[smalls kenobi]

What if the shooter and/or rat are on board one of the helicopters and decides to hijack it with the pilot at gunpoint, forcing them to land near some body of water? It's just a random theory fueled by the current discussion.

now that would be an epic season ender! :D

[Adventureless_Hero]

It was just a random idea. But I think it is more likely that Kalani's helicopter will get high jacked or will malfunction and crash. This way you can kill off Kalani and a bunch of the nameless survivors of the tower. Meanwhile all the main crew like Riley, Michael, Angel, Saul, and Lizzie are chilling in Pegs helicopter. (I left out Burt because I feel like he's going to die before the flight, and didn't mention Kelly since I think she was the shooter and the mole)

[HardKor]

It was just a random idea. But I think it is more likely that Kalani's helicopter will get high jacked or will malfunction and crash. This way you can kill off Kalani and a bunch of the nameless survivors of the tower. Meanwhile all the main crew like Riley, Michael, Angel, Saul, and Lizzie are chilling in Pegs helicopter. (I left out Burt because I feel like he's going to die before the flight, and didn't mention Kelly since I think she was the shooter and the mole)

It will be interesting to see who ends up on which Helicopter. I'm willing to just about guarantee that Michael ends up on Pegs' chopper, possibly with Angel going on Kalani's to keep the command structure in tact in case something happens.

[Heyyouinthebushes]

I was wondering about the title of the chapter, "Our Doubts are Traitors". Do you think aside from the rat and Pippin situation it could also refer to how Burt is doubting himself, causing his hands to shake? Or Sauls doubt that anyone is concerned about Lizzie caused him to be a traitor (using the term loosely) in a way that he would break his promise to wait at LAX?

"Our doubts are traitors" is a line from Shakespeare's Measure for Measure, a play in which deception is used to free a man unfairly imprisoned (though his imprisonment is justified by following the strict letter of the law). This could hint at a couple things: (1) Michael and Angel using deception to bring about justice. (2) If Pippin's killer is also the rat, but killed Pippin because they have "turned good" and wanted to protect the Tower, it could hint at the idea of justly punishing him or her (vs punishing by letter of the law). Lizzy was punished following the strict letter of the law, and the punishment has proven unjust. What is a 'just' punishment for the killer/rat if their killing Pippin was to make up for being the rat?

Just an idea.

[Grognaurd]

One problem with the have two helicopters lose one free is that Angel and Michael are not likely to be on the same chopter. I would not allow my "Number 1" to ride with me if an alternative was available. It would give me pause if we had an assault 'chopter and a baggage train, but even then I would be very hesitant.

[cupcakezombie]

One problem with the have two helicopters lose one free is that Angel and Michael are not likely to be on the same chopter. I would not allow my "Number 1" to ride with me if an alternative was available. It would give me pause if we had an assault 'chopter and a baggage train, but even then I would be very hesitant.

I think as a show of confidence Michael will go with Pegs, so Angel will go with his bro Kalani.

[Walrusgus]

It was just a random idea. But I think it is more likely that Kalani's helicopter will get high jacked or will malfunction and crash. This way you can kill off Kalani and a bunch of the nameless survivors of the tower. Meanwhile all the main crew like Riley, Michael, Angel, Saul, and Lizzie are chilling in Pegs helicopter. (I left out Burt because I feel like he's going to die before the flight, and didn't mention Kelly since I think she was the shooter and the mole)

That makes me think of Lost a little bit. There were heaps of nameless characters until the shipped blew up and only the people in the helicopter survived (pretty much). That way all the main characters stay there while the side characters stories are neatly tied up.

Whether or not Kc will go for this route I don't think so. I don't think, considering there will be two helicopters, we will be left with only the main characters. He has however been starting to use some random survivors from the tower to do random things. Maybe these newly named survivors are just so something can be put on their grave...

[Adventureless_Hero]

"Our doubts are traitors" is a line from Shakespeare's Measure for Measure, a play in which deception is used to free a man unfairly imprisoned (though his imprisonment is justified by following the strict letter of the law). This could hint at a couple things: (1) Michael and Angel using deception to bring about justice. (2) If Pippin's killer is also the rat, but killed Pippin because they have "turned good" and wanted to protect the Tower, it could hint at the idea of justly punishing him or her (vs punishing by letter of the law). Lizzy was punished following the strict letter of the law, and the punishment has proven unjust. What is a 'just' punishment for the killer/rat if their killing Pippin was to make up for being the rat?

Just an idea.

Brilliant. I really like your analysis of the chapter title. Both points 1 & 2 really are marvelous. Kudos!

I will say that your point #2 and what Michael said about the mole possibly siding with the Tower now just led me further to believe that Kelly was the mole all along. I do believe the mole and the shooter to be the same person. If they are not the same person, then it is very possible that the mole could be revealed soon and then we'll have a whole other season left to wonder who the hell the shooter was. I realize a big argument about the shooter not being Kelly is that Pippin said, "It's you!" before being shot. It could be possible that Pippin knew the Mallers had a mole in the tower at one point but may not have know who the mole was. So when Kelly realized that Pippin was with the Mallers but didn't recognize her as the original mole, she could have played it off.

But when she had a conversation with Pippin while on guard duty, she could have used her super lawyer powers to deduce that Pippin was lying.

[mastafigz]

But when she had a conversation with Pippin while on guard duty, she could have used her super lawyer powers to deduce that Pippin was lying.

Kelly says that she can't be sure of anything because of how battered and bruised Pippin was, so I don't think she knew he was lying. The only thing that makes sense to me is that the rat is the killer, but they have turned loyal, at least for now.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Not to say that you're wrong, because Kc does drop hints like that often, but there's really not a lot of water in the direction they are supposed to be flying.

Dammit Nik. You beat me to it again!

[Adventureless_Hero]

Kelly says that she can't be sure of anything because of how battered and bruised Pippin was, so I don't think she knew he was lying. The only thing that makes sense to me is that the rat is the killer, but they have turned loyal, at least for now.

She did say that, though if you believe her to be the mole you can't really trust anything she says. Certainly her actions lately show that she appears to be loyal to Michael and the tower now, but it wasn't always so. It could be possible that Kelly couldn't read Pippin's face, but somewhere in her conversations with him, he may have said something to give himself away. Perhaps she knows that someone who remembers every exact detail about what has happened to them seems to be too much; as though Pippins telling of his situation was rehearsed. If she was the mole and the only one that knows Pippin is lying, then the ball is in her court.

[mastafigz]

She did say that, though if you believe her to be the mole you can't really trust anything she says. Certainly her actions lately show that she appears to be loyal to Michael and the tower now, but it wasn't always so. It could be possible that Kelly couldn't read Pippin's face, but somewhere in her conversations with him, he may have said something to give himself away. Perhaps she knows that someone who remembers every exact detail about what has happened to them seems to be too much; as though Pippins telling of his situation was rehearsed. If she was the mole and the only one that knows Pippin is lying, then the ball is in her court.

Valid point. I do think she's the mole, so you may be right. It could just be possible she knew Pippin. Nothing more Nothing less. Do we ever find out where Kelly and Tommy were before they found the tower? I'm sure we did, I just don't remember.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Valid point. I do think she's the mole, so you may be right. It could just be possible she knew Pippin. Nothing more Nothing less. Do we ever find out where Kelly and Tommy were before they found the tower? I'm sure we did, I just don't remember.

If my memory serves me, and it rarely does, I believe Kelly was at work while Tommy was staying at her house with his sister? Kelly rushed home and got the kids? Or she may have been watching them at her house while Tommy's mom was at work. Arg, I forget. Though I do not believe Kelly really had any intentions of being a mole right out. I believe she had animosity towards the tower members when she first arrived but the mole wasn't born until Scratch and Latch dropped by hoping to get in the Tower. I believe at some point after thier visit, Kelly may have used the radio to contact Eastern Bay folk. Maybe she even knows some of the criminals, having tried to defend them in court. Though, if it turns out she's a prosecutor I doubt the Mallers care for her. This is also why I believe that in episode 20-3 when Tardust says, "What about the other one...No the one already there..." he is referring to Kelly. She was already there when she decided to be a mole for the Mallers. Though now, they get no response from her.

lol, it's going to be hilarious if we find out the mole is someone else. The palmface heard round the world!

[Z Sniper]

yes j0be! I don't know how... But it will come into play. Bad things are going to happen with this helicopter trip. I know it! Maybe kalani will finally have a heart attack, and pegs will have to make an emergency landing. ;) the possibilities are endless!
-rock

rock daddy is my hero! Presente!

[Adventureless_Hero]

I was thinking that maybe the Mallers will use "the weapon" Latch got out of the safe to bring down an airborne chopper. That would be pretty exciting. Also, if the plan to obtain the second chopper fails, I recall Kalani saying that on a full tank of gas, he believes they could make it the 150 miles and back again. If they end up using 1 chopper/2 trips, it would be pretty interesting if the first chopper takes off and just never returns. We'd be left wondering for a long time as to what happened. Ah! My mind is swimming with possible scenarios!

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I was thinking that maybe the Mallers will use "the weapon" Latch got out of the safe to bring down an airborne chopper. That would be pretty exciting. Also, if the plan to obtain the second chopper fails, I recall Kalani saying that on a full tank of gas, he believes they could make it the 150 miles and back again. If they end up using 1 chopper/2 trips, it would be pretty interesting if the first chopper takes off and just never returns. We'd be left wondering for a long time as to what happened. Ah! My mind is swimming with possible scenarios!

Man you guys are just blood thirsty! LOL. Damn Mongols you be!

[Magrat]

The more I think of it, the more I think it's probably not Saul and Lizzy=Romeo and Juliet....it's probably going to end up Saul and Lizzy=Tony and Maria (West Side Story). Maybe only one of them die.

Although we've already had a truncated version of that with Datu & SAMANTHAAAA *bursts into tears*. I think they will hang in there for a while as a pair, possibly getting someone else from the tower killed in their haste to be together (Burt? which would suck). If they're going, they'll go later in the story. Season 3 or 4? (although, with kc it may be next episode. Like when we all thought Michael, Peggs and Kelly would stick around the Colony for ages but then they split real fast!)

[bequita]

I think Saul's going to get lost. Bangkok has his now...(sorry, had to.)

I can't wait till the next episode. I'm excited to see what takes priority, the chopper or going after Saul. Although if the roads are bad, it should be as easy as hopping in the car and following him. I like the idea of finally finding Lizzy, but I can't imagine it will be easy.

I'm pumped to see what LA looks like from the chopper. Who knows what other colonies/towers/groups will be visible and possible living quarters will pop up with an aerial view of the area.

[7oddisdead]

Something I noticed....did datu seem wwwaaaaayyy more confident than normal to anybody else? Think of fixing the chopper compared to fixing the generator...

[HardKor]

Something I noticed....did datu seem wwwaaaaayyy more confident than normal to anybody else? Think of fixing the chopper compared to fixing the generator...

He was all nihilistic after his ordeal in the Arena and loosing Samantha before. Since Hope showed up he's been better. Although I am curious as to why he's been so chipper considering how close Hope came to the killer. Maybe no one told him she was in the room when Pippin was killed?

[7oddisdead]

Safe to assume id say...and I wouldn't throw around any crazy thoughts like he's the rat based on him being in a good mood...but it was a different tone than any of the typical datu banter

[Jeebogs]

All this talk about Ground zero got me thinking, all we know that was relayed by Kalani, the different types of zombie, the proximate nausea, the weird stuff they brought back from Ground zero, when Kalani is telling Michael, Angel and Saul, he repeats three times that "all this is just what I was told." And he goes on to say that you know how these things can get changed in the telling (or words to that effect).

Can we trust what Kalani has said/heard?

[EatZussy]

Its such an awesomeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!