Chapter 22 - "Our Doubts Are Traitors" - Part 1

[Jeebogs]

I'm not so sure Hope is dead, sure she shut up when the last shot was fired, but you can't say she wasn't just shocked into silence. Either that or she was shot, though not fatally, and it rendered her unconscious. I think there has got to be something to follow on into the rest of the chapter in the way of a clue and I think Hope will be just that.

zombiederek, I like the Michael idea, but it would really upset a large portion of the listeners, and I don't think that's the aim.

[Kn1ckerb0cker33]

Alright, so after reading the first 5 pages or so, and the last 7, (added on top, i've listened to the final 2 minutes of the podcast 10+ times) the final shot could not have been directed at the radio.

The podcast does not directly end right after the shot is made, because there's a few seconds left where you can hear running and the door opening and closing.

If the radio was shot, there would be some kind of metallic "clink" "boom" sound.

From the lack of noise made by Hope after the shot was made, that would mean that the final shot was a kill shot.

Good Point, I was thinking about that after listening to the episode again, so the likelihood that no one was able to respond to Burt and Saul means that Hope was probably shot, but still possibly alive.
And not to get on your case Ra1th, but I know Datu isn't going to be happy with Angel if anything did happen to Hope. I'm not saying that leaving Hope in the room with a chained up Pippin was a bad move
on Angel's part, but Datu won't care either way if Hope is shot.

[cupcakezombie]

The alarm fading out was an Aural choice. It was so powerful it was over-riding what was going on.

Thanks, I thought it might be a fade out, but couldn't rule out it having stopped.

[Crabb90]

I was thinking Pipen was a Maller mole right up until the end. Now, I'm forming some new theories in my head about this mysterious shooter. Here's my best one:

he knew Pipen from the other tower of survivors, fled when it was attacked, and found the Mallers whom took them in. The two of them (Pipen and this shooter) were sworn into the 'Maller Army'. However, when Pipen realized that the Mallers were criminals he began searching for other means of survival and eventually found the Tower. The Mallers proclaimed him a deserter and locked him up. When he managed to escape, he made his way to the Tower but when the Mallers realized he was gone, they sent the shooter after him. Either that, or they called their mole in the Tower to deal with him but that wouldn't explain how Pipen recognized the shooter unless he knew that person as well.

^ That's my theory.

[Jeebogs]

Didn't Scratch mention to Tar and Bricks that she was "dropping Pippin off" and that they hadn't heard from "the other one" for a while?

[WestonWisdom]

Didn't Scratch mention to Tar and Bricks that she was "dropping Pippin off" and that they hadn't heard from "the other one" for a while?

Yeah, this lack of communication means that the Rat wouldn't be aware of the plan.

[Crabb90]

Saul's mom did take over the room where Saul was laying, so it's possible she messed with his bags. However, I don't see her turning on the people who have been taking care of her son all this time. Unless, she had a previous engagement with the Mallers that somehow forced her to take an action such as this, I don't she is a very probable suspect. Also, we know from her time at the Colony that has a very assertive personality but I don't think she's a killer.

[Beaumont]

I'm not so sure Hope is dead, sure she shut up when the last shot was fired, but you can't say she wasn't just shocked into silence. Either that or she was shot, though not fatally, and it rendered her unconscious. I think there has got to be something to follow on into the rest of the chapter in the way of a clue and I think Hope will be just that.

zombiederek, I like the Michael idea, but it would really upset a large portion of the listeners, and I don't think that's the aim.

I don't think Hope is dead either because her sense of smell is going to come in to play in the hunt for the shooter. Why else would we be given the cologne discussion unless this will be used as a clue or something used by the shooter to throw suspicion.

[Don Man]

I think chapter 22 part 2 will be all about lizy,tar and bricks making the wait longer :(

[Ra1th]

Good Point, I was thinking about that after listening to the episode again, so the likelihood that no one was able to respond to Burt and Saul means that Hope was probably shot, but still possibly alive.
And not to get on your case Ra1th, but I know Datu isn't going to be happy with Angel if anything did happen to Hope. I'm not saying that leaving Hope in the room with a chained up Pippin was a bad move
on Angel's part, but Datu won't care either way if Hope is shot.


Ohh noooooo Datu is annngryyy, what's he gonna do? Same thing he always does, go cry in the corner... trololol

[MrScott101]

Just took another listen, there were 4 shots total 3 in pippen and 1 to quiet up hope!

[zombiederek]

I think chapter 22 part 2 will be all about lizy,tar and bricks making the wait longer :(

Unfortunately I have to agree, I imagine we will catch up with Lizzy and the Mallers with the last half of the episode dealing with Burt and his crew. The last minute of the episode will take place at the tower. KC is too good of a story teller to give away everything right off the bat.

[nikvoodoo]

Unfortunately I have to agree, I imagine we will catch up with Lizzy and the Mallers with the last half of the episode dealing with Burt and his crew. The last minute of the episode will take place at the tower. KC is too good of a story teller to give away everything right off the bat.

Man! I hope they go back to Bricks/Tar/Lizzy! If they don't, over half my predictions for the chapter will be completely wrong!

[zombiederek]

Just took another listen, there were 4 shots total 3 in pippen and 1 to quiet up hope!

Yeah, I have little "hope" that she is still alive. The shooter definitely put one in her skull. Or at least she fainted from the shock of being shot.

[Kn1ckerb0cker33]

Ohh noooooo Datu is annngryyy, what's he gonna do? Same thing he always does, go cry in the corner... trololol

Got tired of being trolled I see :D.

[SnipesR1]

ok well lets start with the facts.
Angel Leaves the room in a hurry to secure the arms room.
the shooter is waiting nearby maybe another room or down the hall a bit away from wherever the arms room is located. because as i listened closely you clearly hear that the shooter walks casually into the room and closes the door as pippin acknowledges that he knows the person walking in. the shooter raises the suppressed firearm and fires two into the pippins chest as you can here the gasp for air gargled by blood then one into the head as you hear him slump down cause the chain moves a little. pippin KIA.

now recap a few moments before pippin is killed while angel is explaining the audio system to hope. you clearly hear one of them moving in a desk chair cause it creeks a little bit.
now to me this would explain why you dont hear a thud of hopes body hitting the floor cause she is sitting in a chair an only slumps down when shot if she was. also before the last round is fired she begs for her life, and while she is and after her plea you can hear the shooter move around a bit before firing his last round. the thing that to me says hope is killed is that before you hear the shooter running out of the guard room. after there last shot you dont hear hopes breathing anymore.

my bet is on the first one to arrive to the armory after angel is the shooter...as long as its not michael

[zombiederek]

Ohh noooooo Datu is annngryyy, what's he gonna do? Same thing he always does, go cry in the corner... trololol

lol Yeah I anticipate a lot of Datu crying and screaming "HOOOOOOPE!"

[zombiederek]

ok well lets start with the facts.
Angel Leaves the room in a hurry to secure the arms room.
the shooter is waiting nearby maybe another room or down the hall a bit away from wherever the arms room is located. because as i listened closely you clearly hear that the shooter walks casually into the room and closes the door as pippin acknowledges that he knows the person walking in. the shooter raises the suppressed firearm and fires two into the pippins chest as you can here the gasp for air gargled by blood then one into the head as you hear him slump down cause the chain moves a little. pippin KIA.

now recap a few moments before pippin is killed while angel is explaining the audio system to hope. you clearly hear one of them moving in a desk chair cause it creeks a little bit.
now to me this would explain why you dont hear a thud of hopes body hitting the floor cause she is sitting in a chair an only slumps down when shot if she was. also before the last round is fired she begs for her life, and while she is and after her plea you can hear the shooter move around a bit before firing his last round. the thing that to me says hope is killed is that before you hear the shooter running out of the guard room. after there last shot you dont hear hopes breathing anymore.

my bet is on the first one to arrive to the armory after angel is the shooter...as long as its not michael

I agree, I think it would ruin the show for me if the traitor is Michael. He's my favorite character and I would rather see him die that betray the tower.

[SnipesR1]

yea im right there with ya on that. but it is kinda sad if they did kill hope to see her put down like that. especially with the devolping plot line of her unique ability to have better hearing then everyone else to hear something coming up on them. but when i think about it this is a horror story first and foremost and to every silver lining survial happy ending theres alot of bloody corpses that paved the road to the end. plus in my opinion hope has served and ended for the most part one running plotline. so she may have somewhat finished serving her purpose except to in the end send datu on one last raged filled mission to destroy the rat and any trader or maybe traders!

[HardKor]

Ohh noooooo Datu is annngryyy, what's he gonna do? Same thing he always does, go cry in the corner... trololol

I think you underestimate Datu. The poor bastard can only take so much before he snaps completely. And if Hope is dead, Datu's going to go over the edge hard.

I'm imagining him grabbing a wrench from his toolbox and taking a swing right for Angel's face. Like I said before, it won't fair, but Datu won't be in any condition to care about fair.

[Uber Behemoth]

Has anyone confirmed Pippin's death?

[nikvoodoo]

Has anyone confirmed Pippin's death?
Confirmed? Nope. But I hear three slugs going into a body and it's not Hope's because her reaction doesn't sound like that of someone who's been shot twice and then killed with the final shot. Since no one else is in the room, seems like all three of those rounds hit Pippin. But you are correct, we technically do not know if Pippin is dead.

We just have really good reason to believe he is. The real burning question is where did that 4th round go?

[Crabb90]

I think it's implied that the 4th round went into Hope but I don't think we have enough evidence to say she's dead yet. She could have made a run for the door (assuming she was familiar enough with the room) and just been wounded. Or, maybe Hope had a hidden gun on her and she got a lucky shot off at Pippen's killer. I'm sure the former scenario is more plausible.

[Hellbringer]

Glad I'm not the only one looking for what happened to Lizzie and Bricks. Tardust, though... yeah, I'm interested, but I'm waiting for him to bite the big one, or in this case, get bitten by a Big One.

[j0be]

Here's my notes on this episode:

Michael has Pegs skip guard duty because of Pippin

This could be because of his suspicions about Pippin being a Maller
That coupled with Pegs **ahem** connection with Scratch.

Victor wears excessive cologne

This could be a foreshadowing to a large scale event that is soon coming

Angel refers to Hope as "dear". Aww... Isn't that sweet?
Bluejay (Jacob) & Robin (James) are going to check out "that other area"

They could be headed to Van Nuys, but it isn't explicitly stated where that "other area" is, or what the "thing" they are looking for. (most likely another helo)

The residents of the tower are still finding electronic entertainment. (Saul's "Gameboy")

This means that they are doing battery runs. Just interesting.
I guess the batteries could also be used for the long range walkies.

Burt is working on remote explosives / distractions

I'm staking my flag in this that this will be used in the future

The silenced pistol is missing from the bag

The zombie that comes for them had to be a regular
This was most likely taken by the shooter at the end of the chapter

Burt is going through something that is causing his hands to shake

Most likely PTSD.

Radio Silence from the Nest.

Most likely due to the shooter

Pippin jumps on the chance to listen to the headset

This could be because he want to make sure no one else was on the headset

The alarm readout is in the surveillance room.

Whoever the shooter is mostly likely knew this as well.
That could be either an intentional distraction, or collateral distraction.

Pippin recognizes the shooter before they identify themselves or their weapon
Pippin receives 3 silenced shots
One more shot occurs before the episode ends

This could be the shooting of Hope
This could also be the shooter taking out the radio



One side note about the final scene. Remember that this podcast is told through the journals. If all participants of a scene die, how do the journals know what happened? (this is my take on whether or not Hope died)

[7oddisdead]

First off hello. Sorta new here.
A few things I've noticed that nobody seems to have mentioned.. It was just what, last chapter that we had semi screwed up timelines. So Burt talking to kalani could have been after the shooting. Datu was getting the tools together when angel/hope took over for kelly. Also when kalani radioed Burt there was a certain hurried sound to his voice at first and the motor sounded like high acceleration. ( that could just be coincidence). Another thing is Burt said kalani sent them to lax. Burt saw a hawiian airlines on the Tarmac. Wouldn't kalani have already known the coast guard chopper was there then? I dunno, I like the rilely on a revenge theory better but too many things still don't add up to me about kalani.
And poor Burt he never really did get a chance to really grieve over tommy. Don't think it's ever been mentioned but doubtful he and Shirley ever had kids. Tommy (and now Saul ) seem to fill the void of someone to care for... Quite sad really.
And hopes character has always been a metaphor.......:/

[zombiederek]

I think you underestimate Datu. The poor bastard can only take so much before he snaps completely. And if Hope is dead, Datu's going to go over the edge hard.

I'm imagining him grabbing a wrench from his toolbox and taking a swing right for Angel's face. Like I said before, it won't fair, but Datu won't be in any condition to care about fair.

How awesome would it be to see a one on one duel between Datu and Steven (who I believe is the rat). It would be a nice change of pace with him instead of his just pissing and moaning all the time.

[zombiederek]

Ok I'm not sure if this has been touched on yet, but I was listening to chapter 20 again and Lizzy is narrating her story as if she were writing in her journal...which she has no access to. So does this mean that the end has come for all of the characters and this is just a recount of events from the journal's or could one argue that Lizzy or maybe even other characters are already dead and are just narrating their stories from beyond? Not sure if this has been talked about yet but I think this is something to consider.

[nikvoodoo]

Ok I'm not sure if this has been touched on yet, but I was listening to chapter 20 again and Lizzy is narrating her story as if she were writing in her journal...which she has no access to. So does this mean that the end has come for all of the characters and this is just a recount of events from the journal's or could one argue that Lizzy or maybe even other characters are already dead and are just narrating their stories from beyond? Not sure if this has been talked about yet but I think this is something to consider.

This is a can of worms you are opening that has no good answer at this moment (and honestly we may never know the answer until the final chapter part). And this discussion has come up before on the forum but I think it might have come up in a compilation thread, or maybe a chapter discussion because I can't find it right now. (HINT HINT: Who wants to make a theory thread about the journals?)

Lizzy doesn't have access to her written journal, but she was recording either an audio or a videotaped journal entry to comfort herself. As for the lines she said after the recorder clicked off (when she was in the car dealership parking lot), I took that as she was just talking to herself and for the sake of no one but herself, not as a journal entry.

[nikvoodoo]

First off hello. Sorta new here.
A few things I've noticed that nobody seems to have mentioned.. It was just what, last chapter that we had semi screwed up timelines. So Burt talking to kalani could have been after the shooting. Datu was getting the tools together when angel/hope took over for kelly. Also when kalani radioed Burt there was a certain hurried sound to his voice at first and the motor sounded like high acceleration. ( that could just be coincidence). Another thing is Burt said kalani sent them to lax. Burt saw a hawiian airlines on the Tarmac. Wouldn't kalani have already known the coast guard chopper was there then? I dunno, I like the rilely on a revenge theory better but too many things still don't add up to me about kalani.
And poor Burt he never really did get a chance to really grieve over tommy. Don't think it's ever been mentioned but doubtful he and Shirley ever had kids. Tommy (and now Saul ) seem to fill the void of someone to care for... Quite sad really.
And hopes character has always been a metaphor.......:/

Welcome to the party! :)

Very frequently the timeline of the narrative gets skewed. For instance when Michael, Pegs and Kelly were stuck in the Colony, the Angel and Kalani storyline that was being told along side it happened at a different time. And you are correct, it would seem Burt/Kalani radio conversation apparently has happened after the assassination of Pippin.

Kalani's story is he was rushing from the instant he landed. If he was running for his fat life, he probably wouldn't take notice of a helicopter in the area. Besides, LAX is huge and Burt's mention of the Hawaiian Airlines plane could have been a very far distance away from the chopper they found since it was contained in narration and not real time dialogue with Saul.

Great first post! Very good observations :)

[7oddisdead]

Thanks nik!
I agree about the kalani thing but it isn't beyond possibility. Jus keeping the ideas flowing. I like the idea of a drunk Riley getting revenge on one of those damn mallers better. Makes more sense. And based on the fragment if conversation we got of he and Kelly ( talking food. Rileys a chef,right?) there actually could be some kind of connection... Who knows we will learn sooner or later.....hopefully

[nikvoodoo]

HA! Maybe he lied about being a salesman and was really a Michelin reviewer who panned Riley's restaurant. She recognizes him, and just thinks "I always wanted to shoot that bastard..."

[7oddisdead]

Yep.....see? Thats what you get for panning an archer a....bullet?...(dang, that didn't work)

[cupcakezombie]

(HINT HINT: Who wants to make a theory thread about the journals?)

Done

[Adventureless_Hero]

I didn't read what everyone else posted because work has been extremely busy. Sorry to those who posted before me, I don't mean to be disrespectful of your opinions. I promise to read all the prior posts when I get an opportunity. That being said:

Holy shit! What an episode! I immediately sank into fear when I heard that final silenced shot and the proceeding footfalls as the shooter made a hasty get-away. But the lack of any other sound effects has me wondering: What the hell got shot? Was it Hope or the Radio? I didn't hear Hope react to being shot, nor did I hear electrical short-circuiting. I don't believe there would be any reason to shoot a blind girl who couldn't see the shooter. But if Victor's use of cologne has any purpose in the story, this may be it; Hope might say she smelled a very distinct cologne. And bam! Victor is the patsy to Steven's genious. (just random theories)

Although Pippin said, "It's you!" this doesn't mean that it wasn't someone he had already seen in the Tower. It could have been that Pippen knew there was a mole already in the tower but simply didn't know who. Then when, let's say, Kelly walked in with a silenced pistol, he realized she was the original mole planted by the Mallers, leading him to be suprised.

Honestly though, I'm done theorizing for this episode. Freakin KC has me biting my nails and trying to be a Sherlock about it all. Who had access to Burt's guns when Datu brought them back? If someone lifted the silenced pistol from the back, why did they need to break in to the armory and set off the alarm? Was that just a distraction to draw Angel out of the room? Has the mole truly changed sides and joined the tower giving he/she motive to kill Pippin as so to avoid being discovered? Who the fuck shot JR?!

[Jeebogs]

I think chapter 22 part 2 will be all about lizy,tar and bricks making the wait longer :(

I think this will most definitely be the case. I can't remember which chapter/s it was, but I'm pretty sure this has been done before, cliffhanger in the first part, total change of scene in the second, then back to the action to wrap it up in the third.

Just a thought regarding the security room and the armory.
Didn't Burt say that everything has been moved up to floor 5 and above since the fire after Tanya mentions how hard it is to find anything and that the first few floors are a complete mess. Doesn't this mean there would be people close to the armory to hear the alarm, not just Angel in the security room?

[Eitri]

Why, Why would you kill the british guy? You need at least one person with a British accent. Its a media rule! I actually began to like pippin, he kept to himself and only wanted to help, And you kill him off in the second episode that he is in. At least wait 5 to 10 episodes until killing somone.

[Grognaurd]

Ugh, did not want to quote everyones good stuff and stuff not quite right. Let me try

Burt and michael do put a pad lock on the door to his room. Burt and michael have the keys. (R&R Part2)
Later, Burt asks Angel if he remembers the combo to his office. Many people could know the combo.
I do not know if room and office are the same or different. I do not know if there is one lock or two. If one, Burt must have changed it for some reason

Angel was also reluctant to help Kalani. Kalani would have to help himself. We can argue morality, but the question was who did Angel not want to help

Michael did not put Hope on Duty. I would have to double check. But, I think teh way it worked was that Michael sent Angel to get Datu and have steven replace datu. But, datu was doing something else, so he brought back hope. I get the "feeling" that Angel was going to show her the ropes and stay with her. (Could not resist the pun). There is no way to know if the shooter is aware of the change in the schedule. For all we know, the shooter may have expected to find steven.

Is there anyone in the tower who woud want to kill Steven?
Is there anyone in the tower who would want to kill any maller, rat or not?
Is there anyone in the tower who would want to kill to protect an identity?

I am kinda left with Riley, Riley, the rat. as the answers.

And as long as I am really puffing on the crack pipe. Riley goes for tall blondes. WHo are the tall blondes? Dun Dun Dun...

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

ok well lets start with the facts.
Angel Leaves the room in a hurry to secure the arms room.
the shooter is waiting nearby maybe another room or down the hall a bit away from wherever the arms room is located. because as i listened closely you clearly hear that the shooter walks casually into the room and closes the door as pippin acknowledges that he knows the person walking in. the shooter raises the suppressed firearm and fires two into the pippins chest as you can here the gasp for air gargled by blood then one into the head as you hear him slump down cause the chain moves a little. pippin KIA.

now recap a few moments before pippin is killed while angel is explaining the audio system to hope. you clearly hear one of them moving in a desk chair cause it creeks a little bit.
now to me this would explain why you dont hear a thud of hopes body hitting the floor cause she is sitting in a chair an only slumps down when shot if she was. also before the last round is fired she begs for her life, and while she is and after her plea you can hear the shooter move around a bit before firing his last round. the thing that to me says hope is killed is that before you hear the shooter running out of the guard room. after there last shot you dont hear hopes breathing anymore.

my bet is on the first one to arrive to the armory after angel is the shooter...as long as its not michael

Snipes,

I like how you think.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I think this will most definitely be the case. I can't remember which chapter/s it was, but I'm pretty sure this has been done before, cliffhanger in the first part, total change of scene in the second, then back to the action to wrap it up in the third.

Just a thought regarding the security room and the armory.
Didn't Burt say that everything has been moved up to floor 5 and above since the fire after Tanya mentions how hard it is to find anything and that the first few floors are a complete mess. Doesn't this mean there would be people close to the armory to hear the alarm, not just Angel in the security room?

That's correct. There would be other people to respond and they're all armed as well. The only hole would be if it were a silent alarm, which doesn't make sense to me.
The other thing I'd like to know is how have they been communicating in the tower. From What I recall, they've just been running up and down the stairs "Getting" people when they're needed. No internal Walkie Talkies.

If there are no walkie talkies, the what good is a monitoring station if you cannot relay danger without leaving the room. If you leave the room, you loose Command and Control because you can't see what's happening outside now.

[Hellbringer]

Ok, I've done three listens now, and I noticed something with Hope. When Angel leaves to check the armory, Hope calls out for Angel. Did she hear something while on watch or was she worried what to do while he was gone? I get the idea she might have heard something outside the tower on the headset, but when Pippen gets shot, Hope focuses her attention on whoever the shooter is.
I have to stop analyzing the episodes so much and sit back and enjoy the ride. This is definitely a wild roller coaster.

[j0be]

Well, I'm going to play devil's advocate once more and reinvigorate some theories!

One thing we have the the story doesn't tell is who all will be in the episode. Listen to the ending again. Don't stop the episode when the story ends. Notice the cast members? There are some listed for this chapter that aren't in this episode... :D But there are some main characters not there as well.
</devilsadvocate>

[Grognaurd]

Well, I'm going to play devil's advocate once more and reinvigorate some theories!

One thing we have the the story doesn't tell is who all will be in the episode. Listen to the ending again. Don't stop the episode when the story ends. Notice the cast members? There are some listed for this chapter that aren't in this episode... :D But there are some main characters not there as well.
</devilsadvocate>

0o Good catch! Wanna list them for us lazy bastages? Lunch will end before I have a chance to list them and pair them with their character

[j0be]

0o Good catch! Wanna list them for us lazy bastages? Lunch will end before I have a chance to list them and pair them with their character

Jim Gleason as Michael
Shane Salk as Angel
Nate Geez as Saul
Kevin Flood as Kalani
Jay Olegario as Datu
Blaire Byhower as Lizzy
Scott Marvin as Burt
Otto Sturcke as Victor
Richard Tatum as Pippin
Tammy Klein as Kelly
Jenna McCombie as Scratch

Note: but I'm not sure how much stock to take on this as Hope and Steven aren't in that list.

[Grognaurd]

Wow, Scratch as a standalone? That supports another crazy theory I was working on. But, I figured I have droned on way too much so I shelfed it.

[Leedo2502]

Jim Gleason as Michael
Shane Salk as Angel
Nate Geez as Saul
Kevin Flood as Kalani
Jay Olegario as Datu
Blaire Byhower as Lizzy
Scott Marvin as Burt
Otto Sturcke as Victor
Richard Tatum as Pippin
Tammy Klein as Kelly
Jenna McCombie as Scratch

That's a stretch... Kelly Kalani Scratch Datu and Lizzy aren't in this episode... I think KC mentions them all in the credits as they are major charaters

[j0be]

That's a stretch... Kelly Kalani Scratch Datu and Lizzy aren't in this episode... I think KC mentions them all in the credits as they are major charaters

Datu and Kalani come on in this episode over the radio. But as I noted later, Hope IS in this episode and she isn't in the list.

[Grognaurd]

Kelly is with Pippen and relieved by Angel and Hope
Kalani Speaks on the CB to Burt
Datu says Oh when asked to turn the radio down
I think you are right about Lizzy
I think you are correct Scratch.

I think the cast is listed for the Chapter not the part. SO, we should expect to see Lizzy and Scratch. I am surprised that Riley and Pegs are not listed.

As long asa we are splitting hairs, Shane Salk probably also voices for Steven

[j0be]

As long asa we are splitting hairs, Shane Salk probably also voices for Steven

Nope, Steven is voiced by Erik Wargo

[Jeebogs]

I thought Kalani and Datu were (in the car on the way to Saul and Burt) as well as Kelly (talking to Pip chained up).

No scratch or Lizzy though.......

[Leedo2502]

I don't think we are going to find out who the shooter is (Steve!) through listening to the credits

[Grognaurd]

Nope, Steven is voiced by Erik Wargo

Dang! Droned on too much...

The one With the Markings 2
Art 0.

[MrScott101]

I love how some people are stuck on riley being the rat, but wasn't she found with pegs before they even found the tower?? so how would she be a rat for something that wasn't even there yet. The craziness was just starting so how could she be a rat for the mallers when for all we know the mallers were not even at the mall yet?? So please someone explain how she or pegs for that matter be the rat, in fact I think this clears up micheal, saul and Angel for that matter as well??

[Arkum]

So there is no way that the Mallers could have contacted Riley or Pegs after they established the Tower? No let's say...radio available?

[Jeebogs]

I love how some people are stuck on riley being the rat, but wasn't she found with pegs before they even found the tower?? so how would she be a rat for something that wasn't even there yet. The craziness was just starting so how could she be a rat for the mallers when for all we know the mallers were not even at the mall yet?? So please someone explain how she or pegs for that matter be the rat, in fact I think this clears up micheal, saul and Angel for that matter as well??

Could be any one of them. They may have become disillusioned with tower life.

Right before the war, the radio was set to the right channel to communicate with the maller's.
What's to say Durai hasn't given them an offer they can't refuse?

[j0be]

Could be any one of them. They may have become disillusioned with tower life.
Right before the war, the radio was set to the right channel to communicate with the maller's.
What's to say Durai hasn't given them an offer they can't refuse?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeldwfOwuL8

[Jeebogs]

spot on!

[nikvoodoo]

Could be any one of them. They may have become disillusioned with tower life.

Right before the war, the radio was set to the right channel to communicate with the maller's.
What's to say Durai hasn't given them an offer they can't refuse?

Ultimately what I think is the key (and why I think Kc calling whomever this person is "The Rat" is appropriate) is we don't know right now if the Rat is a Mole or a Traitor. Mole requires the Mallers to infiltrate the Tower less than two weeks into the outbreak. Traitor requires someone to get disenfranchised enough with the Tower that they contacted the Mallers to betray them.

I've already stated what I think the situation probably is, so I won't again. If it truly is a traitor, that leaves everyone suspect in the Tower....except Michael...Sorry. I just can't see that happening in a million years.

[Dyehardjr]

you might want to spoiler tag this then...

Oh snap! what a twist. my prediction right now: the shooter is not the rat. the shooter just took a huge risk to get rid of Pippen.

I dont believe that. Remember how Steven was making excuses to get out of guard duty? I believe it was not because of Pippen, but because Steven was afraid of Pippen recognising him from the Mallers.
Also, Pippen has met Angel, Michael, Kelly and Hope, and didn't recognise them. This means they cannot be the rat. My vote is still with Steven being the rat.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Ultimately what I think is the key (and why I think Kc calling whomever this person is "The Rat" is appropriate) is we don't know right now if the Rat is a Mole or a Traitor. Mole requires the Mallers to infiltrate the Tower less than two weeks into the outbreak. Traitor requires someone to get disenfranchised enough with the Tower that they contacted the Mallers to betray them.

I've already stated what I think the situation probably is, so I won't again. If it truly is a traitor, that leaves everyone suspect in the Tower....except Michael...Sorry. I just can't see that happening in a million years.

I'd say you could rule out Saul as well. He's loyal, he's a fighter and he doesn't give up

[j0be]

If it truly is a traitor, that leaves everyone suspect in the Tower

Look at the title. shovel:)

[nikvoodoo]

Look at the title. shovel:)

I know! What a fantastic tie in! ;)

[CantWaitForSeason3]

Can some explain the image on the home page? clearly pippin looking at monitors but whose with him?

[HardKor]

Can some explain the image on the home page? clearly pippin looking at monitors but whose with him?

I'm guessing Hope. Probably in those few moments between Angel running out and the assassin entering.

[Kaitlyn]

SPOILERS!

This episode kinda made me like Pippin too :(
I personally think it was Steven, he was literally JUST going on about how much he hated him and such. It also had to be someone who isn't too great with a gun, there we're like 3 or so shots fired. I have a feeling that if it is Steven, he would have killed Hope because he was wearing a ton of cologne that day (Hope's sence of smell is probably better then the average person) and would have said to someone "I heard them come in and they reaked of cologne."

Did anyone else think Bill was developing arthritis or had some other sign of aging? Him not being able to strip the wires was a huge hint for me but, he said that it had to do with nerves/depression/his wife.

Sorry if I repeated anything you guys said!

[Hellbringer]

SPOILERS!

This episode kinda made me like Pippin too :(
I personally think it was Steven, he was literally JUST going on about how much he hated him and such. It also had to be someone who isn't too great with a gun, there we're like 3 or so shots fired. I have a feeling that if it is Steven, he would have killed Hope because he was wearing a ton of cologne that day (Hope's sence of smell is probably better then the average person) and would have said to someone "I heard them come in and they reaked of cologne."

Did anyone else think Bill was developing arthritis or had some other sign of aging? Him not being able to strip the wires was a huge hint for me but, he said that it had to do with nerves/depression/his wife.

Sorry if I repeated anything you guys said!



I think you meant Burt instead of Bill, but I know what you mean. I figured some of the shaking came from old age, but we'll see next episode I guess. Maybe Burt will take his pills like he's supposed to and it'll go away.

[nikvoodoo]

SPOILERS!

This episode kinda made me like Pippin too :(
I personally think it was Steven, he was literally JUST going on about how much he hated him and such. It also had to be someone who isn't too great with a gun, there we're like 3 or so shots fired. I have a feeling that if it is Steven, he would have killed Hope because he was wearing a ton of cologne that day (Hope's sence of smell is probably better then the average person) and would have said to someone "I heard them come in and they reaked of cologne."

Did anyone else think Bill was developing arthritis or had some other sign of aging? Him not being able to strip the wires was a huge hint for me but, he said that it had to do with nerves/depression/his wife.

Sorry if I repeated anything you guys said!

Welcome Long Islander!

The general concept you hear from law enforcement as their standard is two to the chest, one to the head. So the shots fired could have been done in that manner. or as you said the shooter could have been a horrible shot. But it does sound as though all three shots fired at Pippin hit their mark.

[yarri]

That hand shaking sounds like PTSD.. or god forbid Parkinson's disease. My daughter listened to it and almost cried. Burt is her favorite character.

[7oddisdead]

/\word. Burt reminds me alot of my own grandfather... He has Parkinson's so that's the first thing I thought of as well. Trauma and nerves/stress can agrivate the situation. I feel it's more a PTSD thing... But it Probly hit close to home for several people.
And initially I was gonna say who in the tower would have police background to know the standard concept, but if any of our military boys knew. I'm sure most anybody who's been trained by them now knows as well, so nothing to base a theory on there....

[Walrusgus]

I think maybe Datu was the rat... only on the account that he wasn't around when someone thought he should be... (Angel?)

[Grognaurd]

I do not know if this is worth another thread. But, I want to give a foreshadowing shoutout. Burt discusses his hands with Michael. It is pretty obvious, but something that is much more subtle is that when Burt gets back from searching the mid-morning Michael comes back one of the background noises we hear is what could be a bottle of pills shaking (I went back to listen again ~16:50 About last night Part1)

[j0be]

I do not know if this is worth another thread. But, I want to give a foreshadowing shoutout. Burt discusses his hands with Michael. It is pretty obvious, but something that is much more subtle is that when Burt gets back from searching the mid-morning Michael comes back one of the background noises we hear is what could be a bottle of pills shaking (I went back to listen again ~16:50 About last night Part1)

Nice catch. I'll have to go listen again as well. Even though I do remember him being pretty shaken up, I didn't remember a bottle of pills.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

SPOILERS!

This episode kinda made me like Pippin too :(
I personally think it was Steven, he was literally JUST going on about how much he hated him and such. It also had to be someone who isn't too great with a gun, there we're like 3 or so shots fired. I have a feeling that if it is Steven, he would have killed Hope because he was wearing a ton of cologne that day (Hope's sence of smell is probably better then the average person) and would have said to someone "I heard them come in and they reaked of cologne."

Did anyone else think Bill was developing arthritis or had some other sign of aging? Him not being able to strip the wires was a huge hint for me but, he said that it had to do with nerves/depression/his wife.

Sorry if I repeated anything you guys said!

The first 2 shots were called "Double Taps" to center mass and like Nik said, the 3rd was probably the shot to the head to ENSURE death.

[nikvoodoo]

I do not know if this is worth another thread. But, I want to give a foreshadowing shoutout. Burt discusses his hands with Michael. It is pretty obvious, but something that is much more subtle is that when Burt gets back from searching the mid-morning Michael comes back one of the background noises we hear is what could be a bottle of pills shaking (I went back to listen again ~16:50 About last night Part1)

You're absolutely correct about the pills. The time is actually ~8:15 of 20-1. 16:50 would be at the end of the episode when Michael Swan is talking ;)

[Grognaurd]

Nope, this bozo looked at the total run time and not the actual time. Thanks for the catch and the confidence (8

[Paola]

Has anyone confirmed Pippin's death?

First of all...that was a lot of pages to go thru. But anyway...That's what I wanna know. I think that it's too soon for pippin to die. I don't think he's dead. One thing I don't understand is wh micheal didn't want pegs being on guard. The guy was chained up! What's he gonna do?? But whatevs. GREAT EPISODE. Can't wait till next week.

[Eviebae]

I think Pippin was a mole--and was supposed to communicate with the Mallers and undermine the Tower from inside. The shooter knew or suspected this.
zom:(
Or, I think that whether or not he was a mole, the shooter was a Tower resident who just wanted to keep themselves safe--proactively.
zom:(
Or I think the alarm had nothing at all to do with the Pippin drama and the shooter just happened to be nearby.

Whoever the shooter was, they paused before shooting again. Either to go around Hope and get at the equipment, or to evaluate whether or not she was a threat.

[nikvoodoo]

First of all...that was a lot of pages to go thru. But anyway...That's what I wanna know. I think that it's too soon for pippin to die. I don't think he's dead. One thing I don't understand is wh micheal didn't want pegs being on guard. The guy was chained up! What's he gonna do?? But whatevs. GREAT EPISODE. Can't wait till next week.

You should ask ra1th that question. According to him, Pippin isn't a threat at all.....*casually walks away from this thread whistling*

[Mando]

Honestly though, I'm done theorizing for this episode. Freakin KC has me biting my nails and trying to be a Sherlock about it all. Who had access to Burt's guns when Datu brought them back? If someone lifted the silenced pistol from the back, why did they need to break in to the armory and set off the alarm? Was that just a distraction to draw Angel out of the room? Has the mole truly changed sides and joined the tower giving he/she motive to kill Pippin as so to avoid being discovered? Who the fuck shot JR?!

Agree totally...had so many theories. I can't wait for the next episode to hopefully find out what happened

[Jeebogs]

I can't wait for the next episode to hopefully find out what happened

You just know KC's going to make us wait until part three

[Adventureless_Hero]

Honestly though, I'm done theorizing for this episode. Freakin KC has me biting my nails and trying to be a Sherlock about it all. Who had access to Burt's guns when Datu brought them back? If someone lifted the silenced pistol from the BACK, why did they need to break in to the armory and set off the alarm? Was that just a distraction to draw Angel out of the room? Has the mole truly changed sides and joined the tower giving he/she motive to kill Pippin as so to avoid being discovered? Who the fuck shot JR?!
Whoops. I mean bag. But really I keep wondering about this. I recall Angel helping Datu bring up Burt's guns when they got back from thier vain attempt to raid the Mallers mall. Did someone jack the silenced pistol from the bag at that time? Or did they steal the silenced MP5 from the armory? It's all too confusing.

I'm thinking that Hope is definitely alive. I don't see any reason to shoot the blind girl. Plus it will provide opportunity for the shooter to be "outed". Hope will say, "I smelled cologne..." at which point everyone will look at Victor and his cologne. But this is yet another smart move by the mole, who knew Victor was sporting Brut and decided to splash some on before busting a cap in Pippin. (btw, if voice actor David Ault was voicing Pippin, this never would have happened).

[Pteranodon]

Pippin must have been the target, not Angel, cause he recognized whoever it was. But who? Is this the rat from season 1? Hadn't the trickle of new people into the tower stopped BEFORE the battle with the Mallers? So if the shooter's a mole for Durai they must have planted him WAY in advance but sometime after Pippin got enslaved.

I'm sure the Mallers want revenge, but I think they have much more important things on their minds like taking out the Zombie threat and managing a population of slaves. (I HATE how mankind degenerates into slavery after only a few months- at least the Mallers call em 'slaves' instead of 'workers' like the hypocrites in the Colony)

Hate to say it, but if I were the shooter I'd have killed Hope as well just to be safe- a blind person can still identify you...

[Luna Guardian]

Although I hate to say it, Angel is pretty high on my list of subjects. He had access to the guns, so he could have lifted the silenced pistol whenever he wanted. Also, he was manipulating the controls when the alarm went off (Hope's blind and Pippin's chained to a wall so he could have sprung the alarm without anyone noticing) and could thus create an alibi for himself. Why he'd see the need for the alibi if he shot both Pippin and Hope escapes me for the moment, but it's better to have an alibi and not need it than the other way around.

The biggest problem for me here is the motive. Why would Angel shoot Pippin and Hope, especially Hope? He could be pulling the "nice guy" act, but I don't see Angel as such. Unless Angel has a split personality...

Dun dun dunn!

[Zombiehead]

So which one is Angelo and who is the Duke?

[nikvoodoo]

Has anyone proposed a combination of these theories: Pippin was indeed a rat and was intended to either continue, or re-establish the activities the Mallers desired. So he knew there was someone else there in theory and he was supposed to be actively searching. Suddenly when Pippin was alone, a man/woman walks in holding a silenced pistol so immediately Pippin knows who he was supposed to be looking for in the first place. The "It's You" could have been anyone in the Tower even someone he had met before simply because they had just exposed themselves as the Rat.

just a thought that popped in my head listening to WND just now.

[bequita]

34 pages later and about a week late...

Great episode. We listened to it twice here in the office. Still couldn't believe the ending the second time we heard it.

$5 says Hope isn't dead.

I'm hoping we get the whole group together soon. Lots of terrible things happen now that they're split into so many tiny groups. And it's getting hard to type out my own time line with so many holes in it....just kidding, I don't have that kind of time.

[Ryan]

It would be pretty damn gutsy to go kill a blind orphan kid. There's a very strong stigma against that sort of thing in fiction. Then again KC did kill Tommy in rather nasty fashion so who knows.

My guess is the perp just shot out the radio.

[ilanagl]

I bet the next episode will go back to lizzy, tardust, and bricks just so we don't know what happens.

[mascaria]

I bet the next episode will go back to lizzy, tardust, and bricks just so we don't know what happens.

I hope not. I kinda hope we never heard from them because they got blown up.

[Hellbringer]

I hope not. I kinda hope we never heard from them because they got blown up.

I'm with ilanagl, but I want to see what happened with the explosions. The shooting at the end of this last part is way intriguing, but I so want to know how successful the Mallers were... not to mention I'm still curious as all heck about what weapon Scratch was talking about.

[cupcakezombie]

Listening to WND and they talked the radio not being shot because it doesn't make any sound like something metallic being shot. However, KC said that he faded out the sound of the alarm in the background as it was drawing away from the sounds in the room, so it could be that he hasn't added this sound for similar reasons.
I really want this to be true, cause shooting the blind girl makes me sad.

(Someone may have already posted around this idea, but I can't be bothered reading back to where I last was in this thread, sorry. I am prepared to take the non-thread read rap. :) )

[mythicgr66]

i'm currently listening to part 2, i was so scared for hope especially after that final shot, i have a few idears who the traitor is but im not 100% sure

[Walrusgus]

Has anyone proposed a combination of these theories: Pippin was indeed a rat and was intended to either continue, or re-establish the activities the Mallers desired. So he knew there was someone else there in theory and he was supposed to be actively searching. Suddenly when Pippin was alone, a man/woman walks in holding a silenced pistol so immediately Pippin knows who he was supposed to be looking for in the first place. The "It's You" could have been anyone in the Tower even someone he had met before simply because they had just exposed themselves as the Rat.

just a thought that popped in my head listening to WND just now.

Yeah man I was thinking along the same lines as well. I thought Pippin was probably a spy sent by the Mallers or maybe even the colony(doesn't make much sense though).
I thought that Pippin was there to see why the Rat had stopped reporting or something like that, and then when whoever it was saw Pippin they realised they would have to kill him. The reason the rat killed Pippin though is because they had stopped being a rat and was trying to stay friends with the tower, and Pippin could have blown their cover.

I'm not sure if what I have written has actually made sense but I'll leave it at that.