Scars

[Grognaurd]

Nope, not scratch. Scars.

In the first chapter Michael sees his first group of creatures and says they were covered in Scars and Bruises. As a vet of three tours he is going to know the difference between a new wound and a scar. If scar is really what KC ment, then these are "older" zombies that have been around. Maybe even in cold storage and released. Alternatively, these zombies have super healing powers and wounds are not ignored and left open for cinematic effect. Then again, maybe scars was not quite the right word.

[Osiris]

Nope, not scratch. Scars.

In the first chapter Michael sees his first group of creatures and says they were covered in Scars and Bruises. As a vet of three tours he is going to know the difference between a new wound and a scar. If scar is really what KC ment, then these are "older" zombies that have been around. Maybe even in cold storage and released. Alternatively, these zombies have super healing powers and wounds are not ignored and left open for cinematic effect. Then again, maybe scars was not quite the right word.

That's something I had not considered. Good one. Perhaps it was very much intentionally dismissed. Makes me wonder if this was not in fact something that escaped from a lab. Creatures that had been 'studied' for quite some time, which may have lead to scaring and bruising. However, the scaring and bruising wouldn't make a lot of sense if they were already dead. Dead tissue won't scar or bruise. Which makes me wonder if they were alive and simply under some outside influence. Confusing indeed.

[Don Man]

Good one i never thought of that

[rottenash]

That's something I had not considered. Good one. Perhaps it was very much intentionally dismissed. Makes me wonder if this was not in fact something that escaped from a lab. Creatures that had been 'studied' for quite some time, which may have lead to scaring and bruising. However, the scaring and bruising wouldn't make a lot of sense if they were already dead. Dead tissue won't scar or bruise. Which makes me wonder if they were alive and simply under some outside influence. Confusing indeed.

Very interest point scars need the living to heal.. very naughty scientists indeed...need more lab rats?...no worries send in the convicts.

[Osiris]

Very interest point scars need the living to heal.. very naughty scientists indeed...need more lab rats?...no worries send in the convicts.

Hard to say though. It may have been a description that was simply overlooked... but it makes no sense, unless Mike was not too focused on identifying them. However, that makes little sense either since his military background in INTEL should have him scrutinizing them with as much attention to detail as possible. So that brings me back around to something more sinister. I'm leaning towards the outbreak having come from a lab and that these creatures have been studied by scientists for quite some time.

[Dameon1213]

Here is a therory that I and my friends made. it is mildly humorous. A man walks into hospital in Kansas city, and is soon admited for having out of the ordinary symptoms, as the nurse goes to check him out she is promptly bitten and then he bites someone else, they are not alarmed by the bites, but rather one person at a time just kinda walks up and is like "wha happen to chu?" kinda like a conga line out the hospital door....then one person screams and it is a mad dash to her, a dog pile then nothing left, like paranas. then just normal zombie's hunting the rest of life.

[StickUpKid]

I was thinking the scars were from experiments possibly what made them zombies or mutant or what have you

[7oddisdead]

While the bruises needing living tissue to in fact, become bruises completely destroys my theory...here's what I thought on my first relisten of the first season

at the point Michael sees this group attack the car behind him. It seems unlikely that they have had time to bruise if they were the first to be turned..a little later we learn of Inglewood being in the center of the wave. There's a cemetery in Inglewood...dead rising from graves..a little later we here of "ink" on the TiVo and how he is convicted of multiple homicides....could these be his victims, back from the dead?...has he been turned for longer than we realize?...do bruises go away once your dead?( I honestly don't know that one) that's the things I thought of first...

[nikvoodoo]

Bruises do not go away when you're dead. Make up applied by a mortician or embalmer is used to hide the discoloration of the skin.

If these were the victims of a murder, their remains would have gone through an autopsy meaning had all their internal organs removed and analyzed (including the brain) and replaced into the body in a bag and sewn in. That brings the We're Alive Universe into the realm of George Romero because it seems to me as I look around the board most people subscribe to the Zombies being alive in some capacity, just altered genetically or something along those lines.

....oh my....I just had a thought.....that thread is getting posted right now....

[Fishie]

So many people are leaning towards some sort of scientific experiment gone wrong, I can't help thinking it will actually be something completely different. I have no idea what that might be, just that we're going to get thrown some curveball

[shric debar]

Sheesh I never picked up on this. Though the idea of them being old zombies who broke out from storage is interesting

[Grognaurd]

Nik is right. A "dead" body retains bruising. Bruises can be thought of as dead blood. The mortion pumps out the "living" blood out of the arteries and veins. The dead stuff that leaked into the skin stays. In fact, if the live blood is not pumped out, it would sink to the back or whatever the lowest point is and make a huge bruise.

Since most of us lean towards living things with some simularities to zombies, the We're Alive zombies do probably heal and scar. If this is true, they bruised themselves in captivity or were horribly mistreated in captivity. No wonder they jail break looking for some payback.

But this begs the question WTF are zombies doing in lockdown all over the country in major cities.

[7oddisdead]

I highly doubt there were zombies in lockdown around the globe..that seems to far fetched....BUT ..who would have been in lockdown around the globe?.....now how would you spread a disease worldwide in places like that...hhhmmmm.-_-

[Grognaurd]

I use lockdown in a general sense.
secret lab.
military brig
Military hospital (VA included)
Prison or jail
A special prison / hospital for the criminally insane
A psychiatric hospital.

Any place that specializes in the separation of people from the general public or the general public from the subjects. If they are part of an experiment gone awry we would pay special attention to places were there are people that won't be missed.

After three tours, Michael will know what bruises and scars look like. The biggest problem I have is that we many ground zeros all over the place at essentially the same time. So unless Ink and his friends have asked Scottie (the longest living red shirt I have ever seen) to beam them up and then back down we seem to have a conspiracy. At least in LA we have older zombies or a strong cluster of bruised and scared people close to the route taken by Michael and Saul. To me that implies old zombies or injured soldiers. The general population does not have that density of damage

[ClearSights]

So many people are leaning towards some sort of scientific experiment gone wrong, I can't help thinking it will actually be something completely different. I have no idea what that might be, just that we're going to get thrown some curveball

I am with you 100%, I def think KC is going to throw us a big loop and its gona be something noone has even considered

[7oddisdead]

@Arthur
I would tend to point fingers at a mental health facility...my reasons being, within the context of the story so far we have...
bruised/scarred zom's
The TiVo report

A mental health facility would have just enough security to keep the "undead" locked down for a short period before a full outbreak occurs...and between that and eastern bay..its the only Easter eggs of that nature we have been given

[smalls kenobi]

I was thinking the scars were from experiments possibly what made them zombies or mutant or what have you

that's exactly what i think. i think the Zombification was due to surgical experiments on mental patients gone array at The Mental Hospital. and that Skittles is a Surviving Patient, which is why he can survive on his own because he has experience.

[7oddisdead]

that's exactly what i think. i think the Zombification was due to surgical experiments on mental patients gone array at The Mental Hospital. and that Skittles is a Surviving Patient, which is why he can survive on his own because he has experience.

some group of doctors trying a " radical new treatment "?? That could take it to a global level...

[Grognaurd]

/bump

I am going to bump this too. KC may have chosen the wrong term with scars and bruises, but I am going to assume it is what he meant. I think there were existing zombies that broke out. But, I am going way out on a limb and say that The Family are a bunch of ecoterrorist determined to smash the human population from the billions to a few hundred thousand and this plague is their mechanism. We have seen one side of the family as a criminal element. But, I bet these are more of a cast-off and there is an even more tightly wound group that is sitting pretty else where. I have a few theories on transmitting the disease I will post later...

Here is a real life WTF calling for the murder of billions of people

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones

[Cabbage Patch]

Could this be the thing that Tanya found in the journals?

[Duffusmonkey]

I think KC just made a huge mistake, an Anachronism. ;)

Actually I have been curious about this for a long time. At first I thought the first wave of zombies were escapes from a goverment lab, but ground zero suggests it was more of a viral type situation. Since the Zombies need to circulate blood it doesn't make sense that it was just wounds that didn't bleed. Since the special zombies have had strong growths or mutations that the zombies that orginated from ground zero had the ability to isolate blood flow to the core of the body, like a sea mammal.

I am going to vote that KC screwed up just to see if I rattle some cages ;)

[Grognaurd]

In Chapter 2 we find single zombies throughout the tower. They may have been exposed and retreated home, but I believe there is an airborne means of transmition in addition to the classic blood-based. This is not a classic reanimator. The zombies are alive and thus the double entendre of the title.

I do not think there is any way for a blood-based pathogen to purge greater than >99.99% of LA. Second, although a few thousand zombies coming to eat you is horrific, LA should produce millions and we just do not see that. Most people just Die.

[scbubba]

In Chapter 2 we find single zombies throughout the tower. They may have been exposed and retreated home, but I believe there is an airborne means of transmition in addition to the classic blood-based. This is not a classic reanimator. The zombies are alive and thus the double entendre of the title.

I do not think there is any way for a blood-based pathogen to purge greater than >99.99% of LA. Second, although a few thousand zombies coming to eat you is horrific, LA should produce millions and we just do not see that. Most people just Die.

I was thinking something along these lines re-listening to Season 1 recently. Most of the people in the Tower before it all started were out at work/school/errands/whatever but some folks were at home, I'm sure. So either, there was some initial thing that happened that caused spontaneous "turning" of people throughout LA (probably not given the heat map Micahel & Co produced to ID Ground Zero) or some outside Zeds came into the Tower (for food, etc) and killed/turned the population that were there.

That doesn't disprove an airborne vector but it probably restricts it.

And as to the number of Zeds vs the number of dead, I'm not sure we have any info on why someone gets turned instead of getting eaten in the course of Zed vs human interaction.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Guys, maybe we just desperately need someone who is more proficient with conducting an autopsy than Tanya is. Maybe the Fox Mulder of this forum should ask...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vXZuIhT87eM/TUlGHeffThI/AAAAAAAAAI4/NGSDf2TlBWI/s320/x-files622-778713.jpg

All in all, there has not been much progress in finding any medical evidence how the pandemy started.

[Grognaurd]

Ah, Captain Fancy Pants, I think we're alive has a similarities to Serenity. Some people lay down and die. Some go zombie and Others get sleepy and recover

I have another thread were people get within melee distance of zombies and then have to sleep it off

Michael saving Lizzy
Lizzy at the rescue (less severe)
Burt at his store
Saul in the car (less severe)
Kalani at the Arena
Tanya with Randy (less severe)
Riley in the tower / helicopter
Many Red Shirts being dragged through out the story

There are probably others

[scbubba]

Ah, Captain Fancy Pants, I think we're alive has a similarities to Serenity. Some people lay down and die. Some go zombie and Others get sleepy and recover

I have another thread were people get within melee distance of zombies and then have to sleep it off

Michael saving Lizzy
Lizzy at the rescue (less severe)
Burt at his store
Saul in the car (less severe)
Kalani at the Arena
Tanya with Randy (less severe)
Riley in the tower / helicopter
Many Red Shirts being dragged through out the story

There are probably others

Good observation on the sleeping aspect. Hadn't thought about that connection. Could be PTZD (Post Traumatic Zed Disorder).

And +1 for the Captain Fancypants reference.... :)

[Grognaurd]

Could be PTZD (Post Traumatic Zed Disorder).



Lol

[Bakkie-Pleur]

Unbelievable how many many plot theories come from this show, it might be because of the medium (audio drama) is perfect for mysteries and plot speculations, but the writing is pure qaulity!

[Duffusmonkey]

I CAN'T REMEMBER??? Michael saving Lizzy
I CAN'T REMEMBER??? Lizzy at the rescue (less severe)
DEHYDRATED: Burt at his store
[/B Saul in the car (less severe)
[B]DRUGS: Kalani at the Arena
CONCUSSION: Tanya with Randy (less severe)
HOW WAS SHE HURT, GOOD EXAMPLE---> Riley in the tower / helicopter
WHEN YOU CRAP YOUR PANTS ITS JUST EASIER TO PLAY DEAD THAN ADMIT IT" Many Red Shirts being dragged through out the story

[Grognaurd]

Michael meets Lizzy and Todd at the door with a zombie. I do not believe that because Michael had a hard day clearing the tower and then suffered cat naps at the door can justify sleeping another 24 hours especially when Saul and Angel try to wake him. There was no waking you, Sarge. Said Saul

Lizzy arrives and Riley puts he to bed. She will be alright... But, when Riley asks her to grab the litter box so the cat won't shit on the sofa, Lizzy does not no where the room is. I infer that she also must have been groggy and did not understand the sleeping arrangements even she had been there 36 or more hours

Burt, did Burt's shop lose water pressure unlike the rest of LA? I think his dehydration is caused by his being knocked out by the contagion, not that he passes out because he is dehydrated.

Kalani was messed up even before drugs are mentioned.

Others. I will never be a fan of Hollywood's bop them on the head and have people out for minutes to hours and then clear as a bell. Nope, I think there is more going on. You might be right, but I see repeating patterns and think they are part of story weave.

[Duffusmonkey]

I think the reason Michael slept so long is that after the long day of clearing the tower of Zombies he tried to sleep the first night with his back to the stairwell door and didn't really sleep the first night.

Lizzy and Todd came to the tower a day later so they had one less night of sleep

Kalani was waiting for death and fearful of what horrible things would happen to his daughter because he failed, as a parent the Depression would be overwhelming. I normally sleep 6 hours or less a night but if I have a bout with depression I can sleep 18 hours a day if my wife doesn't force me to get active.

Burt's place is a little farther from the water works than the tower so it might have lost water pressure, BUT your toilet has a gallon or two of clean water in the tank, and some more in the bowl if you get desperate.

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/newartwork/map/WA_MapPoster5Lower.jpg

I love to play Devil's advocate but I STILL think you have a stong case for the idea that fighting off an airborn attack of the virus/bateria/nanobots/microscopic maggots causes someone to have to crash for 2 to 3 days.

Hmm.... I just thought of microscopic maggots .... need to start a new thread

[Grognaurd]

The best guess timeline has the outbreak on Wednesday AM. Lizzy shows up early Thursday AM. Michael sleeps to Friday AM. One long day and one restless night does not justify 24 hours of not sleep, but out cold unconscious, there was no wakin' you Sarge. This just screams there is more here. Matrixing can totally be my bad, but it is also good writing to hide plot aspects in plain sight with a mild misdirection. It's magic

[Duffusmonkey]

When you wound a wild animal it tends to crawl into a hole and go into something like a healing coma, Like I said I like your theory

[scbubba]

Hey Arthur LaMarche - more sleeping theory fodder in Episode 37-1!

Michael and Burt again. But enough of a reasonable doubt (like all the others) to say "maybe not"!

I'm totally intrigued by your theory on this. I'd like to sign up for your newsletter! :D

[Grognaurd]

Possibly, there were many other people in tha room and we know the place is light on drugs and yet they have slept right through it so far. I am not stomping my feet and saying get within a foot of them and it is sleeping beauty, but the behavior is odd and repeatable.

A similar example i never included was being close to Fernando. OMG, WE ARE SURROUNDED. Let's take a nap

[Grognaurd]

Oh, it is in the other thead, but not here. Datu and Riley in the Arena.

[Witch_Doctor]

In Chapter 2 we find single zombies throughout the tower. They may have been exposed and retreated home, but I believe there is an airborne means of transmition in addition to the classic blood-based. This is not a classic reanimator. The zombies are alive and thus the double entendre of the title.
I do not think there is any way for a blood-based pathogen to purge greater than >99.99% of LA. Second, although a few thousand zombies coming to eat you is horrific, LA should produce millions and we just do not see that. Most people just Die.

A likely scenario could be that a zombie chased and infected someone returning home for shelter.


I was thinking something along these lines re-listening to Season 1 recently. Most of the people in the Tower before it all started were out at work/school/errands/whatever but some folks were at home, I'm sure. So either, there was some initial thing that happened that caused spontaneous "turning" of people throughout LA (probably not given the heat map Micahel & Co produced to ID Ground Zero) or some outside Zeds came into the Tower (for food, etc) and killed/turned the population that were there.
That doesn't disprove an airborne vector but it probably restricts it.
And as to the number of Zeds vs the number of dead, I'm not sure we have any info on why someone gets turned instead of getting eaten in the course of Zed vs human interaction.

The Zombie/Human, Living/Dead ratios could be factored by:
1) How many humans are attacked and killed/eaten.
2) How many humans are attacked and turned.
3) How many humans are attacked and turned but later die from their injuries.

[Witch_Doctor]

Ooooohhhh, we've moved quite a ways from scars and scratches, but one more. Michael also fell asleep after arriving in the dormitory at Fort Irwin. I'm guessing his Necro-Narcalepsy is just an adrenaline crash. A sort of 'OK, someone else is looking after things now' induced relaxation.

[LiamKerrington]

Ooooohhhh, we've moved quite a ways from scars and scratches, but one more. Michael also fell asleep after arriving in the dormitory at Fort Irwin. I'm guessing his Necro-Narcalepsy is just an adrenaline crash. A sort of 'OK, someone else is looking after things now' induced relaxation.

Yep. Me thinkse so ase well ...

[Duffusmonkey]

My dad always told me that the one thing you learn in the army is the ability to sleep at any time under any conditions, because it might be a long time until you get sleep again.
He also told me he learned to never volunteer for anything and that the Army lied or told half truths alot.... You can sign up to be a tank driver! "Small print IF there are any positions open, otherwise you will be a mobile latrine specialist"

And Michael never went to sleep on the trip to Fort Irwin. Datu only got a little sleep but I didn't see anythign refering to him sleeping for an extra logn time.... then again Americans are soft and lazy ;)

[Grognaurd]

Ooooohhhh, we've moved quite a ways from scars and scratches, but one more. Michael also fell asleep after arriving in the dormitory at Fort Irwin. I'm guessing his Necro-Narcalepsy is just an adrenaline crash. A sort of 'OK, someone else is looking after things now' induced relaxation.

Actually, he got busy with Pegs, first ;) wink

[scbubba]

Another sleepy time reference I missed before. In 30-3 (around 8:55), CJ has just arrived at the elementary school to rescue, Saul, Victor, Glenn, and Pete. The 4 boys have to get out of the room and hightail it across the area to get to the vehicle. The do some zombie fighting along the way (sounds like Victor does a text book Mozambique drill: 2 shots center mass, 1 shot to the head) and jump in the vehicle.

Some banter back and forth as they get underway. Then, in the middle of the discussion. Saul goes lights out. just falls asleep.

The Victor does the same after CJ tells him it's ok to do it.

Not saying it's Zombie related, but hey, it's another data point..... :)

[Grognaurd]

Wow, thanks for your support. I hate to flog a dead horse with broken stick, but in his narrative in 37.2 he even says people were sleeping in their homes. Sure, that is what people do, but is it important enough to write it in the summary journal? Some things are getting done, but not enough for CJs peace of mind. Lack of leadership? Fear? Or just too damn tired?

[scbubba]

Another bedtime.....

After Angel and Kalani fight Arrowhead and escape in 18-3 (No Place Like Home), Kalani is driving and Angel says "Do you mind if I just... having a hard time keeping my eyes open..." and then drifts off to sleep as they head back to the Tower. (9:22 - 10:20)

Interesting that it's not just, "I'm gonna take a nap" but "having a hard time keeping my eyes open". That, to me, implies an intense level of tired/sleepy.

FWIW.

[victor11]

great observation on the sleeping aspect. I never thought about that connection. ALso, it could be PTZD.