Is Lizzy pregnant or infected?

[KumarJankins]

I noticed a small detail when I listened to chapter 20-3 at around the 7:07 mark. Tar described her eyes as being green which is quite odd because if you listen to chapter 2-2 at around the 8:32, you notice that Micheal describes her eyes as being blue. So it seems that there is something wrong here because her eyes are being described as two totally different colors. Also green is what Micheal described the tattooed zombie's eyes to be. Also maybe her vomiting is happening not because she is pregnant, but because she is infected. The vomiting is just a sign of her starting to turn. The pregnancy theory might just be a red harring.

[j0be]

It could be that. It could just be an error. It is odd, because she's the only character in the entire series to have her eye color described.

But there always is the option that she isn't either, and we're just focusing on the wrong details.

[nikvoodoo]

It could be that. It could just be an error. It is odd, because she's the only character in the entire series to have her eye color described.

But there always is the option that she isn't either, and we're just focusing on the wrong details.

Pegs eyes were described as well in 1-2 by Michael, but he described them as dark. I take that to be brown because there aren't too many other shades of "dark" eyes that exist.

That being said, there's nothing to say she isn't turning as opposed to being preggers. Sad that Tanya isn't on the search and rescue team. We might be able to find out a little bit earlier.

[Luna Guardian]

You might be reading too much into the vomiting. It could be that the thought of being raped sickened her so much that she threw up. People have thrown up in less intense situations than nearly being raped. The emotional rollercoaster of fear, helplessness, absolute terror and in the end, probably relief could well have been enough to make her vomit.

As for the eyes, that could be a mistake. Or then her eyes look different color in different light (my brother has eyes like that, and I'm so jealous. Lucky brat)

[j0be]

Pegs eyes were described as well in 1-2 by Michael, but he described them as dark. I take that to be brown because there aren't too many other shades of "dark" eyes that exist.

You are right on that dark. Since it wasn't a color I hadn't included it, but I looked up the color range of eyes and found this.


Light eyes - Eyes light and light mixed are 16–12 in Martin scale.

Light

Gray
Blue
Green

Light-mixed

Very light-mixed (blue with gray or green or green with gray)
Light-mixed (light or very light-mixed with small admixture of brown pigment)


Mixed eyes - 12–6 in Martin scale

Mixed

Mixture of light eyes (blue, gray or green) with brown pigment when light and brown pigment are the same level.


Dark eyes

Dark-mixed - 6–4 in Martin scale

Brown with small admixture of light pigment.

Dark - 4–1 in Martin scale

Brown (light brown and dark brown) and very dark brown (almost black).





The tattooed zombie is told to have bright green eyes in R&R, Pt. 1 ~10 minutes in.

[nikvoodoo]

11-1 probably around 10:10 minute mark.

Edit: I lied. I forgot I put the whole series on my Ipad

[Wicked Sid]

She nay have had head trauma that lead to the switch in pigment, it may be a little rare but it does happen.

[itsallgoodie]

i wish i had something to contribute to this. all i know is that all these arguments seem logical and reasonable. but if Kc kills off lizzy. ima be pissed.

[COsurvivor]

I would think she is preggy from her previous BF... I mean, how long has it been since the beginning in Episode 1?

[LizzyFabre]

I spoke to Kc... The description of my character's eyes in Chapter two is a mistake. They have always been green. Michael's just a typical non-detail-oriented guy ;) . Reminds me of the episode of The Simpsons when Homer forgets Marge's eye-color. Really, Homer? Really?

[j0be]

I spoke to Kc... The description of my character's eyes in Chapter two is a mistake. They have always been green. Michael's just a typical non-detail-oriented guy ;) . Reminds me of the episode of The Simpsons when Homer forgets Marge's eye-color. Really, Homer? Really?

Thank you for the clarification!

[cycogod]

she's infected and saul is too. saul gave her the funk...zombie STD - that be the nasty

[Ra1th]

HAHA !

You over analyzed and now u look silly

[j0be]

I mentioned it to Blaire the day the episode came out too, so he's not the only one

[WC818]

Well most men suck at remembering those kinds of details. My opinion in this whole thing is we are reading too much into it and she was sick because of the situation she was in. Anyway, it was a pleasure to meet you in person last night, you were extremely nice and beautiful.

[COsurvivor]

she's infected and saul is too. saul gave her the funk...zombie STD - that be the nasty

How can Saul give it to her, when he was out cold? I dont see Lizzie as that type of girl.

[yarri]

I would think she is preggy from her previous BF... I mean, how long has it been since the beginning in Episode 1?

Three months.. and change.. Pretty sure its not Todd's if she is? My money is on Saul.

[yarri]

As Saul's fan girl I have to stand up and defend him. He isn't infected.. Nor is Lizzie I refuse to believe it. If Lizzie is pregnant its not Todd's its Saul's, and on the off chance the baby were Todd's knowing Saul like I do it would still be Saul's baby. Furthermore Saul has only been down for a few weeks. Trust me if there was 15 minutes of free time anywhere in that Tower.. Saul and Lizzie found it and used it!

[kafu288]

Saul is infected. His one of the slow turners that Tanya mentioned while they were in the colony. Lizzie isn't infected but there baby is. Be prepared for zombie babies everybody.

Saul's going to turn during Mallers/Tower 2: Electric Boogaloo. Calling it now

[cycogod]

the baby will hold the cure...or maybe magic johnson already does ? oh yeah lakers suk

[COsurvivor]

Can anyone think of that baby from Dawn of the Dead?

http://fearfragments.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/zombie-Baby-300x200.jpg

[Icarus]

I think if anything Saul is a carrier but he himself is immune to the virus (or however the zombie disease works). Lizzy was probably just puking because she felt sick, she could have been dehydrated or had some bad food. There are a lot of reasons people throw up. Her being pregnant would be interesting but I don't recall if they ever mentioned her and Saul getting it on. I plan on going through the series again though.

[yarri]

Saul is infected. His one of the slow turners that Tanya mentioned while they were in the colony. Lizzie isn't infected but there baby is. Be prepared for zombie babies everybody.

Saul's going to turn during Mallers/Tower 2: Electric Boogaloo. Calling it now
Its been long enough if he were going to turn he would. Tanya would have spotted it. He is responding to the Vancomycin rather rapidly. The only thing wrong with Saul was a nasty centralized infection secondary to primitive and questionable surgery practices. The thought of that scene still makes me cringe and feel nauseous. (thanks KC)

[timberwoof]

Nah I don't think she's pregnant. Just fear.

[COsurvivor]

Wicked Sid Fan Club now the world is ending...

[Wicked Sid]

Wicked Sid Fan Club now the world is ending...

Lmao. I can tell you I was not involved with the creation nor do I have controlling interest. It is just there, so enjoy it.

[kafu288]

Actually no it hasn't been long enough. Tanya said that they had someone who took several weeks to turn. It can happen and saul is a very slow turner.

[Beaumont]

You might be reading too much into the vomiting. It could be that the thought of being raped sickened her so much that she threw up. People have thrown up in less intense situations than nearly being raped. The emotional rollercoaster of fear, helplessness, absolute terror and in the end, probably relief could well have been enough to make her vomit.

As for the eyes, that could be a mistake. Or then her eyes look different color in different light (my brother has eyes like that, and I'm so jealous. Lucky brat)

Yeah I agree I think the situation would be enough to trigger the reaction and as for the eyes I think you're talking about Hazel eyes....they're a great feature. I'm glad I have them.

[Ra1th]

Yes people throw up in intense situations but man lizzy was throwing up for like 5 minutes straight, comeon who throws up for that long, and it wasnt just yaking, there was stuff coming out the whole time, that's way weird in my book

[Luna Guardian]

Maybe she got a bad case of sudden stomach flu?

It happens

[Bulldog711]

The most interesting thing is that there were no details from Tanya regarding this slow turner.........What if slow turners are capable of retaining their cognitive abilities? A super powered SAUL is just what the team needs.....he could infiltrate the Zombies and also kick some serious ass w/ the mallers......Honestly I was excited when someone noticed the alternate desription of Lizzy's eye colour but alas it was a simple error.....Like they say, the simplist answer is normally the right one, and Lizzy being scared to the point of vomit is most likely

[yarri]

Actually no it hasn't been long enough. Tanya said that they had someone who took several weeks to turn. It can happen and saul is a very slow turner.

They have been gone over a month.. Saul had been sick before that. He would have turned by now. I don't really see kc having someone that takes longer then a month to turn.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

besides... how would Saul have gotten infected since he hasn't had any exposed wounds? Burt missed the creature he was aiming at. I can see if it was a through and through then hit Saul when it exited the body. It didn't though.

[yarri]

besides... how would Saul have gotten infected since he hasn't had any exposed wounds? Burt missed the creature he was aiming at. I can see if it was a through and through then hit Saul when it exited the body. It didn't though.


That and an exiting round is hot enough to melt plastic and blister fingers.Had Saul been hit with Tommy's blood Pretty sure any virus on it would have been effectively neutralized.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

That and an exiting round is hot enough to melt plastic and blister fingers.Had Saul been hit with Tommy's blood Pretty sure any virus on it would have been effectively neutralized.

Now that is something they don't teach in Self Aide Buddy Care or Emergency Combat Life Saving. Thanks Yarri!

[KumarJankins]

DARN IT! thanks for the clarification.

[yarri]

Now that is something they don't teach in Self Aide Buddy Care or Emergency Combat Life Saving. Thanks Yarri!

Saul's infection was most likely due to the barbaric nature of the surgery they preformed on him to remove the bullet. I still STILL cringe when I listen to that part.. argh! Kc's use of descriptive terminology makes me shudder. Its a section of the whole story that as a nurse scares me. I learned the hard way about the rounds exiting the gun. When you are told not to pick up spent shell casings and you do and it leaves blisters.. Imagine what the round exiting the casing is like. I verified it as well.

[nikvoodoo]

I'm going with Yarri's analysis and agree the bullet wouldn't carry the virus. The only way I think the virus would make it into Saul would have been the spray from Tommy's exit wound.

But that's not necessarily what happened because we have no confirmation Tommy was ever hit by Burt. No gunshot wound, no blood spray, much harder to claim Saul is infected.

[kafu288]

That size bullet would have gone straight through Saul unless it went through something first. It went through Tommy first. Tommy's blood splattered all over Saul and into the wound. So there's that covered.

I don't remember hearing them saying that they cleaned the blood of him so Tommy's blood could have been on Saul and eventually entered him. Saul was knocked out for a long time. I think you need to be concious to start turning. Now that Saul is concious again I think he will start turning. Quite slowly of cause

[Luna Guardian]

That size bullet would have gone straight through Saul unless it went through something first. It went through Tommy first. Tommy's blood splattered all over Saul and into the wound. So there's that covered.
Unless the bullet is faulty. It sometimes happens that there's a fault in the bullet and that causes it to behave in ways that you wouldn't expect.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

That size bullet would have gone straight through Saul unless it went through something first. It went through Tommy first. Tommy's blood splattered all over Saul and into the wound. So there's that covered.

I don't remember hearing them saying that they cleaned the blood of him so Tommy's blood could have been on Saul and eventually entered him. Saul was knocked out for a long time. I think you need to be concious to start turning. Now that Saul is concious again I think he will start turning. Quite slowly of cause


Listen to the episode again. Burt missed and hit Saul. Saul comments before he passes out "I guess your not that good'a shot after all."
Please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong on that.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Unless the bullet is faulty. It sometimes happens that there's a fault in the bullet and that causes it to behave in ways that you wouldn't expect.

Luna,

What do you mean by a "Faulty" bullet?

[j0be]

Here's the odd thing, the SFX make it sound like Burt took two shots. (I don't know why I didn't notice that before)
Burt mentions his alcohol consumption may have been to blame, but later states he never misses.

We also have never heard that zombies can't turn while unconscious. Just because we haven't heard it, doesn't mean it isn't possible.

Also, Burt was NOT using Shirley when he shot Saul. Smaller caliber handguns do not always have exit wounds. It could have caught on his clavicle.

[j0be]

Luna,

What do you mean by a "Faulty" bullet?

She probably means something like a double fed bullet.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Saul's infection was most likely due to the barbaric nature of the surgery they preformed on him to remove the bullet. I still STILL cringe when I listen to that part.. argh! Kc's use of descriptive terminology makes me shudder. Its a section of the whole story that as a nurse scares me. I learned the hard way about the rounds exiting the gun. When you are told not to pick up spent shell casings and you do and it leaves blisters.. Imagine what the round exiting the casing is like. I verified it as well.

Yarri,

I've been hit by spent shell casing a LOT of times and from a good number of different weapons. Not one of them tickles. LOL.

Ok, lets say this happened:
They used Saul's knife as a scalpel substitute. What if Saul's attempt to clean said knife weren't as good as he thought? What if bleach were the only way to kill whatever was left on the blade or embedded in the hilt?
Saul is now immune, but is now a carrier. He and Lizzy swap spit...or more and now guess what?

I don't believe that, but I'm putting it out there because it's more plausible than the gun shot theory in my eyes.

[nikvoodoo]

Yarri,

I've been hit by spent shell casing a LOT of times and from a good number of different weapons. Not one of them tickles. LOL.

Ok, lets say this happened:
They used Saul's knife as a scalpel substitute. What if Saul's attempt to clean said knife weren't as good as he thought? What if bleach were the only way to kill whatever was left on the blade or embedded in the hilt?
Saul is now immune, but is now a carrier. He and Lizzy swap spit...or more and now guess what?

I don't believe that, but I'm putting it out there because it's more plausible than the gun shot theory in my eyes.

Are you discounting Tommy being shot and the blood splatter getting into Saul? Or are you just saying you don't believe the bullet carried the virus?

In order for Saul to have been shot and have the wound be under his collar bone, Saul would have to be facing Burt with Tommy between them (and Tommy had his back to Burt). There are two shots fired as j0be pointed out. So there are a few ways this sequence could have gone down:

Shot 1 hits Tommy and goes through him and into Saul, the blood splatter gets near or into Saul's wound. Shot 2 could go anywhere at this point in this scenario and it wouldn't matter.
Shot 1 hits Saul, and shot 2 hits Tommy and any resulting blood splatter could get near or into Saul's wound.
Neither shot hits Tommy who plays possum knowing he's being shot at. One hits Saul, and the others misses both entirely.
Shot 1 hits Tommy but no exit wound, so the second shot hitting Saul results in no contact with Tommy's blood.


I think that's about it in terms of scenarios that result from two shots one of which has to hit Saul. The hallways don't seem to be capable of producing a ricochet so that idea is eliminated too.

The biggest issue of all though: Do you believe Burt misses at close range even when drunk? Remember, he took out three or four Mallers at close range, has picked off a couple at a distance during this fight. Is it possible? Sure it is. But I'm hanging my hat on what I described as scenario #1 I listed above.

[Luna Guardian]

She probably means something like a double fed bullet.

Not really. If it were double fed it would have been mentioned afterwards. I meant that if the bullet was malformed in a way that decreased its penetration capabilities or if it had less gunpowder than it should have.

Also, I don't think it was proven that Burt missed entirely. Saul's comment might've been his typical quip. Burt's shot may have passed through Tommy and hit Saul. The end result would be approximately the same, Saul being hit, as if Burt had missed Tommy and hit Saul

[kafu288]

I wouldn't pay that much attention to Saul saying "I guess your not that good of a shot after all" if your trying to use that line to say Burt couldn't have shot Tommy. Burt may have put a bullet into both of them or shot through Tommy to hit Saul. As for the gun used, I don't remember the exact sequence of events detail for detail right now but I'm pretty sure I remember those shots sounding like they came from Shirley. Correct me if I'm wrong. I also seem to remember Burt saying that the bullet should have gone right through Saul which is why he thought that it went through Tommy first. So yeah, I'd say that bullet would have gone through Tommy to hit Saul. Also handgun bullets can go through one person to hit another. I don't know much about guns, in fact I know nothing other than AK47> Everything, but I saw teh end of Die Hard 4 I saw Bruce Willis fire a bullet through his shoulder to kill the bad guy

[Tandem25]

My first instinct while listening was that Lizzy's pregnant. I'll stick with that. I may eat my words but... meh.

[nikvoodoo]

I remember those shots sounding like they came from Shirley. Correct me if I'm wrong. I also seem to remember Burt saying that the bullet should have gone right through Saul which is why he thought that it went through Tommy first. So yeah, I'd say that bullet would have gone through Tommy to hit Saul. Also handgun bullets can go through one person to hit another. I don't know much about guns, in fact I know nothing other than AK47> Everything, but I saw teh end of Die Hard 4 I saw Bruce Willis fire a bullet through his shoulder to kill the bad guy

I am here to correct you (But don't worry, I made the same mistake at one time as well). Burt was out of Shirley rounds at the time he shot Saul.

Penetration power of a bullet is determined by a lot of factors: muzzle velocity, distance, medium the bullet is traveling through, objects it comes in contact with etc etc. So it's possible to put a bullet through Tommy into Saul, but it really depends on where Tommy got shot.

[Ra1th]

I am here to correct you (But don't worry, I made the same mistake at one time as well). Burt was out of Shirley rounds at the time he shot Saul.

Penetration power of a bullet is determined by a lot of factors: muzzle velocity, distance, medium the bullet is traveling through, objects it comes in contact with etc etc. So it's possible to put a bullet through Tommy into Saul, but it really depends on where Tommy got shot.


Burt also says afterwards that Saul was lucky he didn't have any Shirley rounds left, that wouldnt have blown half his shoulder away. and the Saul says oh great I'm glad u didn't have a bigger gun to shoot me with.

[Tandem25]

My first instinct while listening was that Lizzy's pregnant. With what I don't know, but pregnant none the less. I'll stick with that.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Are you discounting Tommy being shot and the blood splatter getting into Saul? Or are you just saying you don't believe the bullet carried the virus?

In order for Saul to have been shot and have the wound be under his collar bone, Saul would have to be facing Burt with Tommy between them (and Tommy had his back to Burt). There are two shots fired as j0be pointed out. So there are a few ways this sequence could have gone down:

Shot 1 hits Tommy and goes through him and into Saul, the blood splatter gets near or into Saul's wound. Shot 2 could go anywhere at this point in this scenario and it wouldn't matter.
Shot 1 hits Saul, and shot 2 hits Tommy and any resulting blood splatter could get near or into Saul's wound.
Neither shot hits Tommy who plays possum knowing he's being shot at. One hits Saul, and the others misses both entirely.
Shot 1 hits Tommy but no exit wound, so the second shot hitting Saul results in no contact with Tommy's blood.


I think that's about it in terms of scenarios that result from two shots one of which has to hit Saul. The hallways don't seem to be capable of producing a ricochet so that idea is eliminated too.

The biggest issue of all though: Do you believe Burt misses at close range even when drunk? Remember, he took out three or four Mallers at close range, has picked off a couple at a distance during this fight. Is it possible? Sure it is. But I'm hanging my hat on what I described as scenario #1 I listed above.

Way to think that out man!

Yarri was discounting the virus being transmitted IF it was a "Through and Through" due to the heat (even though a shell casing isn't what enters the body) I was discounting the "TaT" all together.

I'm still sticking with one hit one miss theory then. IF Burt hit Tommy, then it wasn't a good hit because he got up and died later (fall, wound or fire???). I'm going to put great stock into Saul's line about Burt's marksmanship and also in KC's writing. I don't think the line was there if Saul was the victim of a "through and through."
What I do know about ballistics is that there are tons of factors that come into play and the most important is type round used. It'd actually be a freak accident for a "TaT" to maintain enough velocity to do damage to 2 bodies. Possible? sure. Probable? hmm...

Do I belive Burt missed at close range even though he hit other targets? Sure do. sure do, sure do!
It's one thing to shoot at people you really WANT to hit, but Tommy was a kid and he was one of them. That may have contributed to Burt's losing his "Zen" focus for that split second. Hench why he needed 2 shot and Tommy was already moving by the time the second one came.
I'm not even going to go into the possibility that Burt could have been more intoxicated at that moment than he was minutes before.

[Luna Guardian]

F Burt hit Tommy, then it wasn't a good hit because he got up and died later (fall, wound or fire???)

Tommy was zombified at the time. It means that the hit wasn't a headshot, but doesn't exclude any other "good hit". These critters can fight through single shots from rifles, a 9mm might not kill them

[yarri]

Yarri,

I've been hit by spent shell casing a LOT of times and from a good number of different weapons. Not one of them tickles. LOL.

Ok, lets say this happened:
They used Saul's knife as a scalpel substitute. What if Saul's attempt to clean said knife weren't as good as he thought? What if bleach were the only way to kill whatever was left on the blade or embedded in the hilt?
Saul is now immune, but is now a carrier. He and Lizzy swap spit...or more and now guess what?

I don't believe that, but I'm putting it out there because it's more plausible than the gun shot theory in my eyes.

Ok I will jump on your band wagon for the moment :)

First point :The way a virus is used to immunize someone is its weakened or killed either of these two states will trigger a response from the immune system. He could be immune other then a carrier. To be immunized doesn't mean your a carrier see second point.
Second point: To be a carrier he would have to be infected with the Z virus survive it. I don t see point 2 being realistic as no one survives the Z virus

Third point : If he is immune and he and Lizzie swapped spit and other more interesting genetic materials the resulting offspring would have a 50/50 shot at being immune.

[yarri]

Way to think that out man!

Yarri was discounting the virus being transmitted IF it was a "Through and Through" due to the heat (even though a shell casing isn't what enters the body) I was discounting the "TaT" all together.




I'm still sticking with one hit one miss theory then. IF Burt hit Tommy, then it wasn't a good hit because he got up and died later (fall, wound or fire???). I'm going to put great stock into Saul's line about Burt's marksmanship and also in KC's writing. I don't think the line was there if Saul was the victim of a "through and through."
What I do know about ballistics is that there are tons of factors that come into play and the most important is type round used. It'd actually be a freak accident for a "TaT" to maintain enough velocity to do damage to 2 bodies. Possible? sure. Probable? hmm...

Do I belive Burt missed at close range even though he hit other targets? Sure do. sure do, sure do!
It's one thing to shoot at people you really WANT to hit, but Tommy was a kid and he was one of them. That may have contributed to Burt's losing his "Zen" focus for that split second. Hench why he needed 2 shot and Tommy was already moving by the time the second one came.
I'm not even going to go into the possibility that Burt could have been more intoxicated at that moment than he was minutes before.

Never discounted the lead at all. I was talking about if the shell casing was hot enough to burn then what pray tell was the lead like? It sure as heck wasn't cool to the touch it was Red hot! which would be good enough to vaperize a coating of blood. I used the shell casing as an analogy on why I believe that the lead was hot enough to vaporize the virus that might have been on the bullet. Sorry I wasn't clear enough

My theory as it stands.. Saul has luck.. Saul has the luck of the gods.. Saul Tink is the luckiest bastard alive. Its part of his character. Burt rarely misses even when drunk. He shot Tommy it was a glancing flesh wound.. It resulting little bundle of misshapen red hot sizzling lead hit Saul and penetrated under the subclavian artery. (which is why it bled like a stuck pig) It was malformed when it w as removed it was stated after surgery that it was oddly shaped either a miss fire or it hit someone else first as in Tommy jr zombie wanna be. Saul did get hit with Tommy's blood but here is where his luck comes in.. It got him in the face but missed his mucosa membrane and missed his wound. The skin gentleman is the body' s first and best defense against invaders. It's one of the first lessons a nurse is taught.. wash your hands and keep the skin smooth and supple.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Ok I will jump on your band wagon for the moment :)

First point :The way a virus is used to immunize someone is its weakened or killed either of these two states will trigger a response from the immune system. He could be immune other then a carrier. To be immunized doesn't mean your a carrier see second point.
Second point: To be a carrier he would have to be infected with the Z virus survive it. I don t see point 2 being realistic as no one survives the Z virus

Third point : If he is immune and he and Lizzie swapped spit and other more interesting genetic materials the resulting offspring would have a 50/50 shot at being immune.


Yah! What she just...said!

[yarri]

If anyone wants me to go into natural immunity I will but that is a lot rarer.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Never discounted the lead at all. I was talking about if the shell casing was hot enough to burn then what pray tell was the lead like? It sure as heck wasn't cool to the touch it was Red hot! which would be good enough to vaperize a coating of blood. I used the shell casing as an analogy on why I believe that the lead was hot enough to vaporize the virus that might have been on the bullet. Sorry I wasn't clear enough

My theory as it stands.. Saul has luck.. Saul has the luck of the gods.. Saul Tink is the luckiest bastard alive. Its part of his character. Burt rarely misses even when drunk. He shot Tommy it was a glancing flesh wound.. It resulting little bundle of misshapen red hot sizzling lead hit Saul and penetrated under the subclavian artery. (which is why it bled like a stuck pig) It was malformed when it w as removed it was stated after surgery that it was oddly shaped either a miss fire or it hit someone else first as in Tommy jr zombie wanna be. Saul did get hit with Tommy's blood but here is where his luck comes in.. It got him in the face but missed his mucosa membrane and missed his wound. The skin gentleman is the body' s first and best defense against invaders. It's one of the first lessons a nurse is taught.. wash your hands and keep the skin smooth and supple.

Ok... I'll buy that for a dollar!
I still believe Burt missed with one of his shots, but I'll defer to Yarri's theory on this.. because she's cool like that. Really though, that was a good one Yarri. I do know that rounds fragment or flatten when hitting a body. HP vs SJ have different penetration depths, so the one in Saul could have been one with just his name on it.
I'm going to listen to the episode yet again to see what he was shooting and what rounds (if they say).

[blue rage]

I believe Lizzy is infected. Here's why: when Saul and burt entered the furniture store Saul remarked how bad it smelled. Now it being a furniture store there shouldn't be anything in there to rot. Also none of the mallers said anything about it smelling bad. So what changed lizzy threw up all over the place. Normal puke isn't going to stink up the whole store. But if her insides were slowly rotting? We all know the zombies have a horrible smell. Just throwing it out there

[nikvoodoo]

I believe Lizzy is infected. Here's why: when Saul and burt entered the furniture store Saul remarked how bad it smelled. Now it being a furniture store there shouldn't be anything in there to rot. Also none of the mallers said anything about it smelling bad. So what changed lizzy threw up all over the place. Normal puke isn't going to stink up the whole store. But if her insides were slowly rotting? We all know the zombies have a horrible smell. Just throwing it out there

I like the thought, but I'm going with the puke making the smell on it's own as normal human vomit. It's also possible (though not probable) that some zombies hit the furniture store between Lizzy leaving and Burt and Saul arriving.

I've sadly cleaned up enough vomit in my day to know that delightful combination of stomach contents and bile can stink up an area pretty easily. Saul and Burt were following the trail to the bed where she puked, but remember she also puked somewhere between the bed and the front windowbwhich could make it easier to smell.

[kafu288]

Yeah I've thrown up enough to know that if you don't clean that vomit properly, or at all, your house/room will stink like crazy a couple of hours later. They were longer than just a couple of hours to get to the furniture store from when Lizzie was there. So yeah Lizzie's not infected but the baby is

[yarri]

I believe Lizzy is infected. Here's why: when Saul and burt entered the furniture store Saul remarked how bad it smelled. Now it being a furniture store there shouldn't be anything in there to rot. Also none of the mallers said anything about it smelling bad. So what changed lizzy threw up all over the place. Normal puke isn't going to stink up the whole store. But if her insides were slowly rotting? We all know the zombies have a horrible smell. Just throwing it out there

Have you ever smelled a moderate size amount of vomit that has sat in a place that is non air conditioned.. It can smell up a room quite easily. Remember this is L. A. and its summer.. No electricity+ no A.C. = smelling rotting vomit.

[yarri]

Yeah I've thrown up enough to know that if you don't clean that vomit properly, or at all, your house/room will stink like crazy a couple of hours later. They were longer than just a couple of hours to get to the furniture store from when Lizzie was there. So yeah Lizzie's not infected but the baby is
We are not sure there is a baby?
As virus go for example.. HIV.. If the mother has it the baby most likely will without chemical assistance in the form of anti-viral (hiv meds) the baby can't have it if the mom doesn't A baby can't have a virus that the mother doesn't have.. Not sure if that's clear let me know if its not. Its been a long week for me.

[kafu288]

We're also not sure that the zombies are being caused by a virus... or that its a virus that acts like every other virus...

But I understood what you were trying to say

[Eitri]

I think Lizzie might be coming a cross breed. she will have the powers of a zombie, but she will be able to contain the primal instinct and operate as a normal human would.

[yarri]

I think Lizzie might be coming a cross breed. she will have the powers of a zombie, but she will be able to contain the primal instinct and operate as a normal human would.

how does someone become a cross breed?

[WestonWisdom]

I think Lizzie might be coming a cross breed. she will have the powers of a zombie, but she will be able to contain the primal instinct and operate as a normal human would.

The zombie virus seems pretty in your face in terms of personal and rate of spreading(I have no idea what that means either), I don't really think a Cross-Breed is possible, Explain :)

[JRAM94]

After the latest episode, 21-2, I'm pretty sure that Lizzy isn't infected. I'm not sure if she is pregnant or not, but I am almost positive that she isn't infected because she hasn't been sick for some time. The last time she threw up was, correct me if i'm wrong, chapter 20-3. As for the pregnancy, I'm thinking that she isn't. I bet Pegs will be the first, if any, mother in the tower. Just a thought :o)

[nikvoodoo]

Correcting you: she got sick last episode during the attack in the convoy

[Luna Guardian]

how does someone become a cross breed?

Especially from just having sex. Granted, if Saul is a carrier she could be infected, but becoming a half-breed makes no sense. It's an either-or situation.

Well, unless the virus has mutated in Saul, but even in such a case I'd call Lizzy a zombie, just a new type, not a half-breed.

[JRAM94]

Correcting you: she got sick last episode during the attack in the convoy

Thank you Nikvoodoo, i don't really remeber that, but i'll re-listen to the episode again asap

[nikvoodoo]

I don't recall exactly when, but listen around the time the little one dropped in for a visit.

[Boomstick]

My opinion is that she is neither infected nor pregnant. One possibility could be that Saul built a natural immunity to the infection. It is kind of like when you get a vaccination shot. When you get a vaccination shot you get injected with a dormant/weakend form of the virus that you are trying to prevent. Then the body's white blood cells are strong enough to defend against it because of the weakend state of the virus, thus building a natural immunity. This is what could of happend to Saul. If the bullet did in fact go through the zombie into saul, the amount of blood transfer could of been so miniscule that his body, being in a extremely healthy state, could of developed the anti-bodies in order to defend against it. If this theory is true, then that doesn't make Saul immune from being able to become zombified. Because the virus can mutate, then his anti-bodies that he developed are no longer as useful to defend against the parasitic infection. Now that being said Saul could be a carrier of the vaccine. Lets say that Saul is "infected" then when he transfers bodily fluids(i.e. kiss) then he could of passed the weakend virus to Lizzy. Which, in that case, then Lizzy might be feeling the side effets of the natural process of the development of the anti-bodies.

[JRAM94]

@nikvoodoo I listend to that episode and yes it was around the time the little one showed up, to be precise, it was after Bricks ripped its arm off and was driving away. Lizzy threw up in the back seat and Tar said to forget about the arm and to forget about her (Lizzy) to Bricks

[Blood & Ice Cream]

my theories on Lizzy being sick, are neither preggers or infected, she was either:

i) in shock, she had been recently zapped by a tazer, kidnapped then nearly raped

or

ii) kalani mentioned something in chaptor 11 p2 about the 'other tower' occupants getting nauseous in a particular part of town (ground zero), near to where the first unique creatures where encountered. Kalani was also ill for a while (but that may have been a show to avoid being picked for enterainment in the arena)

[rottenash]

Anyone else notice that Saul was coughing and didn't look to good just before they reached the Helli? could be the lack of meds.. or perhaps something Lizzy and him share.

[cupcakezombie]

my theories on Lizzy being sick, are neither preggers or infected, she was either:

i) in shock, she had been recently zapped by a tazer, kidnapped then nearly raped

or

ii) kalani mentioned something in chaptor 11 p2 about the 'other tower' occupants getting nauseous in a particular part of town (ground zero), near to where the first unique creatures where encountered. Kalani was also ill for a while (but that may have been a show to avoid being picked for enterainment in the arena)

Snap, I was thinking about this possibility all afternoon, but wasn't sure how far the furniture store was from ground zero. Anyone have any idea?

[Kn1ckerb0cker33]

Anyone else notice that Saul was coughing and didn't look to good just before they reached the Helli? could be the lack of meds.. or perhaps something Lizzy and him share.

Well he was shot before hand and might be fighting off something as a result of the wound. Or he and Lizzy bumped uglies when no one was looking?

http://thmg.photobucket.com/albums/v725/bossnads/th_lolerskates.gif

[GodofInsanity]

In my opinion she is pregnant. In one of the last episodes it was mentioned that it has been three months since the outbreak. More than enough time for her and Saul to become close and for them to go to that next level. And thats if the took it slow with the whole who knows if we will be here tomorrow kinda mood that could rise up in an apocolyptic scenario such as this. Plus it can lead to Scratch using her as a barter for Pegs, and her being pregnant would up the ante

[Dameon1213]

She could very well be pregnant from Saul, enough time has passed for the symptom of "morning sickness" to show itself. If she was infected, i think KC would have defiantly written something about that, i don't think Saul and Lizzie were getting it on while he was bed ridden, it wouldn't make any sense. i know that is the last thing i think about when i am sick like he was, and i think i have libido close to Saul's. XD all joking aside, Liz is pregnant

[Dameon1213]

also, throwing up is not a sign of infection, keep in mind, tommy never threw up.

[Siegfried]

the argument that a 9mm round wouldn't get stuck in Saul unless it had gone through Tommy first is actually incorrect. even though a 9mm is a very high penetration/low damage round. there are a series of overlapping bones in a human shoulder that would be very difficult for any handgun round to penetrate. in order for that round to penetrate a shoulder it would have to go through the front of the shoulder joint, the upper arm shoulder ball joint, and the rear shoulder blade, not to mention a large number of connective tissues and flesh. so while the bullet may have gone through tommy first, it wouldn't have to because it still would be unlikely for the bullet to penetrate the shoulder.
-Siegfried

[ZombChick16]

I would think she is preggy from her previous BF... I mean, how long has it been since the beginning in Episode 1?
It has been quite a while... you would have been able to tell way before now. On the first chapter it was mentioned that it started on May 8th, and in Chapter 25 part 2, someone said it was August at the moment. It would have to be from Saul.

[Dylan]

I noticed a small detail when I listened to chapter 20-3 at around the 7:07 mark. Tar described her eyes as being green which is quite odd because if you listen to chapter 2-2 at around the 8:32, you notice that Micheal describes her eyes as being blue. So it seems that there is something wrong here because her eyes are being described as two totally different colors. Also green is what Micheal described the tattooed zombie's eyes to be. Also maybe her vomiting is happening not because she is pregnant, but because she is infected. The vomiting is just a sign of her starting to turn. The pregnancy theory might just be a red harring.

Why not both pregnant and infected? What if this character, this "smart zombie" if you will, is the reason for Lizzy's condition? It would, after all, add quite a twist in the story-line not to mention causing quite an issue for Saul and the rest of the Tower residents...

[reaper239]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdhhQhqi_AE

[DeeKay86]

Just thought this up.

There is a big emphasis on Lizzy having green eyes, and I noticed that in Chapter 10 (I think) where the tattoo'd zombie is standing in the hallway, they mention his 'Green eyes'.

Possible that the same green eyes have been passed down genetically to Lizzy! Meaning that she is the daughter of the Green eyed Tattoo Zombie!

Also, Kc mentioned in an interview that there is a specific "reason" as to why we are following the story of this group of survivors. I think its obvious that this group is important because this group holds the key to saving mankind.

It also seems that Saul is immune to being infected and becoming a Zombie. For example, it almost always takes a tiny amount of blood contamination - even through a scratch - to become infected. Saul was shot and covered in blood (his own and zombie blood), and still did not become a zombie.

I think that if Saul (immune) has got Lizzy (daughter of tattoo zombie) pregnant, then an immune half breed zombie/immune human/saviour woul dbe born! - (like Jesus in a way!)

Many stories in movies etc have some sort of reference to a "saviour" - even the Matrix had this sort of way about it with Neo being a 'Jesus like' character.

Anywhoo, thats my two cents.


Any feedback is appreciated.

[nikvoodoo]

very good theory, deekay. I merged that thought here since you actually combined the two thoughts pretty nicely.

[Eviebae]

The thing that stood out to me was the way Scratch's voice changed when she saw Lizzie was sick. I wondered if it meant something to her--like it's happened to other people. She sort of gives her a little preferential treatment in response. Pregnancy is one idea, some sort of response to Ground Zero is another. She didn't talk about having a fever, or feeling sick--just that she couldn't stop vomiting.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Just thought this up.

There is a big emphasis on Lizzy having green eyes, and I noticed that in Chapter 10 (I think) where the tattoo'd zombie is standing in the hallway, they mention his 'Green eyes'.

Possible that the same green eyes have been passed down genetically to Lizzy! Meaning that she is the daughter of the Green eyed Tattoo Zombie!

Also, Kc mentioned in an interview that there is a specific "reason" as to why we are following the story of this group of survivors. I think its obvious that this group is important because this group holds the key to saving mankind.

It also seems that Saul is immune to being infected and becoming a Zombie. For example, it almost always takes a tiny amount of blood contamination - even through a scratch - to become infected. Saul was shot and covered in blood (his own and zombie blood), and still did not become a zombie.

I think that if Saul (immune) has got Lizzy (daughter of tattoo zombie) pregnant, then an immune half breed zombie/immune human/saviour woul dbe born! - (like Jesus in a way!)

Many stories in movies etc have some sort of reference to a "saviour" - even the Matrix had this sort of way about it with Neo being a 'Jesus like' character.

Anywhoo, thats my two cents.


Any feedback is appreciated.

My faith in newbies and mankind has been restored. That was the first original theory we've had in 6 months. LOL. Well, except for the Saul immune thing. We've fought over that bit like two fat dudes and the last slice of pizza. I personally believe its a bunch of whoowee and can't remember how many think that as well. Simply because Burt didn't hit what he was aiming at, he missed. Hence Saul's line about him missing. No through and through happened.
Anyway, great line of thought.

[DeeKay86]

My faith in newbies and mankind has been restored. That was the first original theory we've had in 6 months. LOL. Well, except for the Saul immune thing. We've fought over that bit like two fat dudes and the last slice of pizza. I personally believe its a bunch of whoowee and can't remember how many think that as well. Simply because Burt didn't hit what he was aiming at, he missed. Hence Saul's line about him missing. No through and through happened.
Anyway, great line of thought.

Thank you!!! Actually made me feel special!

[TASM]

Pegs eyes were described as well in 1-2 by Michael, but he described them as dark. I take that to be brown because there aren't too many other shades of "dark" eyes that exist.

That being said, there's nothing to say she isn't turning as opposed to being preggers. Sad that Tanya isn't on the search and rescue team. We might be able to find out a little bit earlier.

Plus, I seem to remember Samantha's eyes being decribed as green by Datu as well.

[TASM]

You might be reading too much into the vomiting. It could be that the thought of being raped sickened her so much that she threw up. People have thrown up in less intense situations than nearly being raped. The emotional rollercoaster of fear, helplessness, absolute terror and in the end, probably relief could well have been enough to make her vomit.

As for the eyes, that could be a mistake. Or then her eyes look different color in different light (my brother has eyes like that, and I'm so jealous. Lucky brat)

Well, in story-telling, unless an action is a very standard reaction to circumstances, you would write in something so many times repeated. She threw up well after the rape attempt.

[Raven]

I could be totally making this up but I thought there was a clarification about her eye color from KC that it was an oversight that she should have blue not green eyes. May be in this thread infact....

[Raven]

I spoke to Kc... The description of my character's eyes in Chapter two is a mistake. They have always been green. Michael's just a typical non-detail-oriented guy ;) . Reminds me of the episode of The Simpsons when Homer forgets Marge's eye-color. Really, Homer? Really?

Wayyy back on the first page Thanks Blaire/KC