Who's The Rat v2.0

[AdrianHD]

I don't think Kalani was the mole, because if he was the Mallers would know the Tower (They will always be the tower) had a Helicopter.

Remember: the rat was on the Tower's side afterwards, that's why they didn't kill Hope.

[HardKor]

I don't think Kalani was the mole, because if he was the Mallers would know the Tower (They will always be the tower) had a Helicopter.
Not if he stopped working with them after the War. Pippin seems to have been sent in to get the rat back in line. So Kalani could have given the Mallers info leading up to the War and then broken off contact because he didn't want to get anyone else hurt or killed.

[GD_Elite]

the rat is a girl, Scratch said so, I think it's Pegs.

That would explain the reason Pegs was so sad after killing Latch, because she never meant for him to die, she stopped liking the mallers half way through chapter 12 and then almost instantly turned into Badass pegs

On a second listen, the "her" Tar mentions is Lizzy. He thinks that they will make the trade, and Lizzy will tell the rest of the tower that Pippin is a rat.

[daredevil]

On a second listen, the "her" Tar mentions is Lizzy. He thinks that they will make the trade, and Lizzy will tell the rest of the tower that Pippin is a rat.

I was talking about the "her" that Scratch mentions.

[Th3_T3ch]

I was talking about the "her" that Scratch mentions.

that her is refering to Lizzy. The rat is most likely male and Kalani... sadly.

[StickUpKid]

YEa i knew it, fuck pippen. oh and sorry raith but uh angels the rat

[Th3_T3ch]

YEa i knew it, fuck pippen. oh and sorry raith but uh angels the rat

Because Ra1th didn't jump on this soon enough and it serves my best interest as kalani theorist, Angel is a SUSPECT for the rat. It's unlikely considering Hope's story about Pippin's death. Kalani is the top suspect, but we won't know for sure until next season.

[GD_Elite]

I think it would be a disaster if Lady destroyed Kalanis journal when it is in hope's bag. That would be like torture.

[Zombiephyllic]

I can totally see them opening the bag, seeing the half eaten journal and then Angel spending hours trying to piece it back together. With pieces that could be a confession but never knowing for sure. That would suck.

[Kahlua85]

I can believe that Kalani was in fact the rat if the assumption, that the rat had changed its alliance from the mallers to the tower is true. I've always had him pegged as a snake in the grass. Despite the improvements he had made in his own character I'm glad Kalani is dead. He was still kind of a douche. As for Angel being the rat, well I don't buy it. I do believe that he has a strong connection to the mailers but I believe its merely history prior to the outbreak. Angel isn't my favorite character but to label him as the rat is too big of a leap for me.

[7oddisdead]

Just my opinion....
the rat sub-plot is now effectively over...sure..at some point during season three we may get some kind of resolution to what kalani did and why...but we now have all the pieces we need...all we lack is the parts to put it all together. Kalani's final words to angel were the closest thing to a confession we're gonna get...you can only take subtlety so far...we have our answer to this, now we just have to accept it.

And by the end...i grew quite fond of Kalani...sad he died really..

[randomcitizen]

Angel is the mole. The Mallers are forcing him to do it because they hold some trump card over him (perhaps the mentioned "second hostage"). Who's the second person the Mallers captured at the end with the old man? Angel perhaps? Scratch did seem pleased. Perhaps Kalani told Angel to find his journals because they might contain information on how to help him out of his predicament. I'm not ready to write Kalani off as the mole... seems too obvious.

[nikvoodoo]

Just my opinion....
the rat sub-plot is now effectively over...sure..at some point during season three we may get some kind of resolution to what kalani did and why...but we now have all the pieces we need...all we lack is the parts to put it all together. Kalani's final words to angel were the closest thing to a confession we're gonna get...you can only take subtlety so far...we have our answer to this, now we just have to accept it.

And by the end...i grew quite fond of Kalani...sad he died really..

I disagree wholeheartedly with your assessment. We have all rallied against the idea of a dead rat reveal. That's why we don't believe it was Bill. Why would that rule of thumb change just because the "leading horse" in the debate is dead now? Isn't it still more impactful if the rat is alive and with the group surviving on the helicopter? And if the rat and the assassin are the same, they still have to answer for what happened to Pippin....or not. He was a bastard anyway.

The rat is still very much alive. And they still have a lot of opportunities to screw with the Tower (albeit not on purpose. They are going to try to hide their existence to their up most ability....who knows what that will lead to.

[7oddisdead]

I disagree wholeheartedly with your assessment. We have all rallied against the idea of a dead rat reveal. That's why we don't believe it was Bill. Why would that rule of thumb change just because the "leading horse" in the debate is dead now? Isn't it still more impactful if the rat is alive and with the group surviving on the helicopter? And if the rat and the assassin are the same, they still have to answer for what happened to Pippin....or not. He was a bastard anyway.

The rat is still very much alive. And they still have a lot of opportunities to screw with the Tower (albeit not on purpose. They are going to try to hide their existence to their up most ability....who knows what that will lead to.

on this subject i will happily agree to disagree...we will find out who's rats living or dead at some point in the next..year? *crosses fingers*...i just feel like there's enough meat to the story now to make the rat situation take a very firm position on the back burner....on a low simmer...

[werewolf]

and the maulers had his girl friend. Why didn't he come clean to Angel and Michael? Especially after Angel had saved his butt on the base. Once He and Angel had came back from getting the M.R.E's. What would he had to loose? Yea he could have been kicked out. I would rather take my chances with the people that had rescued me from certain death more than once than the people that where holding my girlfriend hostage.

[usmcludwig]

Its simple. He isn't the informer.

[h3half]

Its simple. He isn't the informer.

Eeeexactly.

Too many things don't line up.

[nikvoodoo]

There's already a thread about who's the rat. Let's just keep everything in there.

[wt91]

as the title says... i think i know who the rat is... i've recently been going back in listening to the whole first season and working my way through the second. ok here it goes... and please shoot it down if you can... i welcome it.

Kelly is the rat... Mike and Angel are talking this last time about how whoever the rat is is now with the tower... if we look at all the main characters who is the perfect depiction of someone who wasn't with anything the tower was doing and then all of a sudden was with the tower... Kelly. At first everything they did was wrong and she wanted to leave and wanted everyone to revolt... maybe to thin out the number of people in the tower... but after "the war" and tommy's death she changes and wants to help. Now if Kayloni's "Hannah" was in fact the red head that was shot at the golf course then that means he has a connection with the mallers... and who was the first person kayloni talks to when he gets to the tower... Kelly... maybe drawn to the only familiar face... and look at who the main person Pippin opens up to in the tower is... Kelly... and he says "you" because she just left the guard room... and comes back ready to blast his face off... yes it was a suprised "you" but wouldn't you be suprised if the one person who you thought was on your side in the tower walking in a room and pointed a gun at you. One more point before i let you guys have at it... Kelly always wanted to know what was going on... was always asking why... and never wanted to help... who would you want to help a group you were trying to f over... she is a lawyer... meaning she has had contact with criminals... and we all know that there are such things as currupt lawyers... oh and she was present at the tower before everytime the mallers showed up unlike the other popular choice for the rat which is Angel who was gone getting Datu back when all the stuff was stolen and the mallers showed up

ok guys... have at it

[nikvoodoo]

as the title says... i think i know who the rat is... i've recently been going back in listening to the whole first season and working my way through the second. ok here it goes... and please shoot it down if you can... i welcome it.

Kelly is the rat... Mike and Angel are talking this last time about how whoever the rat is is now with the tower... if we look at all the main characters who is the perfect depiction of someone who wasn't with anything the tower was doing and then all of a sudden was with the tower... Kelly. At first everything they did was wrong and she wanted to leave and wanted everyone to revolt... maybe to thin out the number of people in the tower... but after "the war" and tommy's death she changes and wants to help. Now if Kayloni's "Hannah" was in fact the red head that was shot at the golf course then that means he has a connection with the mallers... and who was the first person kayloni talks to when he gets to the tower... Kelly... maybe drawn to the only familiar face... and look at who the main person Pippin opens up to in the tower is... Kelly... and he says "you" because she just left the guard room... and comes back ready to blast his face off... yes it was a suprised "you" but wouldn't you be suprised if the one person who you thought was on your side in the tower walking in a room and pointed a gun at you. One more point before i let you guys have at it... Kelly always wanted to know what was going on... was always asking why... and never wanted to help... who would you want to help a group you were trying to f over... she is a lawyer... meaning she has had contact with criminals... and we all know that there are such things as currupt lawyers... oh and she was present at the tower before everytime the mallers showed up unlike the other popular choice for the rat which is Angel who was gone getting Datu back when all the stuff was stolen and the mallers showed up

ok guys... have at it

Merged this from another thread. And as always I shall play the Devil's Advocate, most of which I've already argued against the Kelly/Rat theories.

We do not know what kind of lawyer Kelly is. Not all lawyers deal with criminals. Some lawyers broker deals between very large companies all day long and protect corporate interests.

Secondly, Kelly was the first person to fight back against the Mallers attacking the Tower in chapter 12. It was her voice that you hear telling Burt to pull his head back as they launch a couch over the side of the balcony.

Pippin's "you" can be in regards to any person he met in the Tower. Pippin knows there's an informant in the Tower but he doesn't know who it is...that information would probably not be trusted to him. If he interacted with every Tower member (I know he didn't but for the sake of argument lets say he did), and suddenly he sees that person appear in the doorway holding a gun at their side or in their hand, a surprised "you" works for any one of them.

Kelly's actions can be interpreted in different ways than what has been framed for us by Kc. We have our opinions of Kelly's early actions because of they way Kc has Michael, Angel, Saul. Lizzy etc etc react to her. Kelly is a very strong woman and is probably used to being more in charge of her life. She's a lawyer so she's used to being able to manipulate situations to her advantage but she's obviously not dealt with people who have stronger personalities than hers.

Am I saying she's not the rat? nope.

[Claw Hammer]

I don't think Kelly is the rat to me that seems like a red herring.My Theory is that riley is the rat. My reasons behind this are that firstly. She rejects all of angels advances but i don't believe her to be a lesbian because in chapter 24. Victor & Burt are messing with her about her rejection of angel and if she was gay wouldn't she just have admitted her sexuality then instead of putting up with them. This leads me to the conclusion that she is either rejecting angel over guilt over being the rat or the scratch is holding the person she already loves as a hostage. My second reason is that if she was the shooter the reason she chose to trip the alarm was in order to not have to kill angel because of all they have been through together. I also believe how they mention how she couldn't have been the shooter is just there to make us not suspect her. My third reason is that the reason she chose to volunteer to play the part of pegs in the hostage negotiation is because she thought that scratch wouldn't just shoot her if she was playing pegs because scratch would have known her incase she had been looking at the proceedings through a sniper scope. That could be why she refused to wear a bag over her head so that they could see her identity. It could also have been her way at trying to return to the mallers if she was the rat. My final reason is that she was knocked out in the finale so she couldn't reveal her guilt until series 3. Just my thoughts :zombie:

[Zombiphobe]

The rat sub-plot is now effectively over...sure..at some point during season three we may get some kind of resolution to what kalani did and why...but we now have all the pieces we need...all we lack is the parts to put it all together. Kalani's final words to angel were the closest thing to a confession we're gonna get...you can only take subtlety so far...we have our answer to this, now we just have to accept it.

I agree with 7oddisdead on this and upon relistening to the series, I noticed something interesting:

When Kalani discovers that Angel is returning Latch's body in "Over the Air-Waves" Part 2 (7:22), Angel refers to Latch in gender-neutral terms: "them" or the "body". Without seeing the body, Kalani then quickly says he has no idea who that is and that he never met "him", giving away that he did know who Latch was, but was being overly hasty in denying it.

[nikvoodoo]

"hey guys! Come here!"

-Spoken by anybody who you wish to assign that to spoken to any gender make up group ever.

Kalani saying "him" (which I dispute) is common, especially amongst men, when assigning gender to an unknown person. Not everyone is PC.

And personally, it sounded like he said "I didn't know 'em" shortened from them. I don't hear the distinct "h" in the beginning.

[Zombiphobe]

I agree it is common to to hear people use "him" when talking about someone of an unknown gender. However it is quite uncommon to have a writer scripting your dialogue :) ... and writers can have reasons for using a particular wording. What stuck out to me more than KC's word choice for Kalani was that he had Angel using gender-neutral terms up until that point, despite knowing who Latch was.

(Just for clarification, these observations are not intended to be definitive evidence. I just found it interesting relistening to past episodes having Kalani in mind as the rat.)

[Claw Hammer]

Just having to say that i disagree that the rat sub plot is over. KC wouldn't tease us for so long without giving us a definitive answer at least i hope he wouldn't :mad:

[7oddisdead]

One small thing I will say on the "rat plot is over" thing...in my mind I see the search for the rat as far as the characters are concerned, being over....by that I mean Michael and co will no longer be concerned with who the rat was....kalani now fits the bill... Truth be told I'm doubtful we learn the real story til the very end.

I could easily see a very long season three...full of many twists and turns...plots,subplots....none of which having a thing to do with "who's the rat"....then, at the very end(and I do mean,very end)...boom. Datu was the rat,....durai is his brother....or something silly-awesome like that...

[Cromulent Frog]

I'm going with Kelly. She was very hostile when she first showed up. Where she came from was never explored. She threatened to leave and was called on her bluff by Michael to leave which made her look like an ass.

I think she's the rat. As Michael discussed with Angel, after Pippen was shot, he thinks the rat is now loyal to the Tower People. Kelly I think is now loyal to the Tower but that was after trusting her life with Angel and Pegs. If you found yourself in a zombie apocolypes would you be hostle to the people in charge from the very beginning? I doubt it. There's more to her that has yet to be revealed.

[Skeptic-all]

Ok
I guess I am doing the typical thing and posting a theory that might have already been discussed.
And I guess I am just gonna be that annoying guy who is a bit delayed on the series.
And I guess I might not and might be putting a good theory on the table.

Anyways I just wanted to say that I think Angel is the rat

First of all, do we know how the mallers knew of the arena?
My theory is that when Angel, Michael, Riley, and Datu are headed to the waterworks
Angel had a seperate plan: to find out were the zombies were gathering for the mallers


After Michael "is lost" Angel still goes to the trackers even after Datu and Riley try to persuade him
not to go.
He says " I have to do this right now, I'm not asking you to understand O.K.? I just need to." Chp.8 Pa.3
Then I started wondering... why would he do that???
Michael "died" and they have very few supplies why would he risk it.
Then I remembered what Scratch said "...although you do look somewhat familiar." Chp. 8 Pa.1
So maybe Scratch knew Angel from some other time or heard his voice, maybe through a radio.

And after they go to the arena guess what, quite a few episodes later the arena is bombed by
guess who? the mallers!!!
How did they know that? Angel told them!!!
Oh well thats my theory, I dont think he is doing it on purpose just that maybe he is being bribed or
forced to tell them.

Also Angel is very eager to kill Scratch and Latch and calls them "crazy" and that "you cannot put reason into anything they do"
He probably wouldn't be able to say that unless he had tried to reason with them earlier on or something like that.
OH WELL. You guys tell me what you think.

[PirateBeew]

Can i just interject with a quick thing i noticed

When burt and saul are at the airport, after they blow up the blasting cap walkie talkie contraption
they search for a a silenced pistol which is supposed to be in there bag but it isnt there
which means someone must of taken it When they went to the maulers original base which was empty.

That person must have also helped out with the unloading of the weapons for them to keep it outside burts safe...

The only 2 people who could of done this are Riley and angel.....

I suspect that there may not but just one mole though.....

[Cemetery Man]

I keep hering a rumor that Richard (rick) Barboza will be written into the next season. Could he be the mole?

[nikvoodoo]

I keep hering a rumor that Richard (rick) Barboza will be written into the next season. Could he be the mole?

ummm.....what?

[Cemetery Man]

Listen to the early chapters, Rick appears in many of them

[Zombiphobe]

I keep hering a rumor that Richard (rick) Barboza will be written into the next season. Could he be the mole?
I don't think I'd go as far as to call Rick Barboza the mole, but there is definitely something fishy about that character.

[Cemetery Man]

I don't think I'd go as far as to call Rick Barboza the mole, but there is definitely something fishy about that character.

(;

[7oddisdead]

When bad jokes start popping up in what could arguably be called the most serious, heated theory discussion thread on the site...its time for the show to come back...:)

[Royalty13]

While listening through all the episodes again, I am pretty sure the rat is Kalani. Everything is a little fishy around him and I'm sure when the next season begins and we get to read his journal we will find out everything. After Kalani was taken back to the base, Michael assigned him to guard duty the very next night. Kalani had a whole day to observe conditions and then he was left alone in the guard room to watch the base and talk to the mallers. The next night is when the attack happened and Kalani wasn't fighting, he was upstairs and never made an appearance during the battle.

Skittles has to know the mallers since he is scared of people because he thinks people are the "bad people" but then he recognized Angel and knew Angel was nice and gave him socks. When they were at the base getting the MREs Kalani and Angel hid in the water tower with Skittles. Skittles said he remembered Angel and then he said he remembered Kalani too. Angel quickly said that he must be thinking about Datu and not Kalani but Skittles was pretty positive that he recognized Kalani. Most likely because when Skittles first saw Kalani he was with the mallers. Kalani remained silent the whole time.

Kalani seems to have abandoned his traitorious ways when he gets to know the group at the tower and he helps them out and works with them and becomes friends with them, especially Angel. Then Pippen comes into the mix. Pippen probably really was a prisoner of the mallers or he could have been a maller himself. Either way, Pippen would recognize Kalani so Kalani never showed his face around Pippen. Kalani and Datu were going to go help out Burt and Saul but before they left, Kalani went and talked to Michael to let him know. Not more than a minute after he left the room, the alarm went off and Pippen was shot. Datu claims Kalani was with him the entire time and that they left before it happened but my theory is that Datu was getting the car started and Kalani told Datu that he was gonna say bye to Michael or something and he let Datu get the car ready. Datu was in the carport so couldn't hear the alarm perhaps and then Kalani came down and they took off and Datu didn't know that anything had happened until a few minutes later when the nest radioed them and asked them where they were. Datu probably assumed it had barely happened and so he said that Kalani was with him the entire time.

Kalani and Datu met Burt and Saul and Datu tells Burt and Saul everything that happened and Kalani said nothing. Then Burt and Saul said they think they should go back but Kalani then tries to get their minds off it by saying "I'm sure you can do all the probing you want when we get back, the fact is we're here and have a job to do. They have the person they think did it."

All signs point to Kalani for me. I can't wait for this next season to start so we can find out the truth.

[reaper239]

are you so sure that the truth will be revealed?

[nrtv20]

I still think it's Kelly, although it's been declared unlikely by some. I think that she may have defended someone important from the prison or had a close tie with one of the mallers. And for a while she was aiding a mutiny. Who knows what was conspired between the tenants in the background. She has redeemed herself in recent episodes, but that doesn't mean she didn't make a mistake back when she was miss thang. The wonderful thing is that Kc has given damn near everybody a motive to keep us guessing.

I agree, it was Kalani Kelly AND Tommy; The first person Kalani talked to when he got to the tower was Kelly, When the mallers attacked the tower when they had the party Tommy was on guard duty. Also Kelly happened to "fall asleep" when she was on guard duty the first time latch and scratch entered the tower.

[ryanlm09]

I agree, it was Kalani Kelly AND Tommy; The first person Kalani talked to when he got to the tower was Kelly, When the mallers attacked the tower when they had the party Tommy was on guard duty. Also Kelly happened to "fall asleep" when she was on guard duty the first time latch and scratch entered the tower.

I bet Kelly set the radio too

[GeneTwo]

This is my theory about who the rat is.

Kalani is the rat of "a" tower. I think people forget that there was another tower. Although, I don't believe he is a Maller. I believe Kalani's story of escaping Hawaii is true but instead of finding the other tower the Mallers found him and the other survivors of the plane crash, including Hanna. LAX is close to the mall and probably part of Maller territory. He was probably forced to spy on the other tower or they would kill Hanna. Who would suspect a big Hawaiian dude of working for criminals. He was there to assess the towers strength and to look for weaknesses for an eventual takeover by the Mallers. Before he could report back the zombies attacked and he was captured and taken to the arena. He was probably given an ultimatum, like if he didn't report back within a cretin time period she would be killed.
I also don't believe he was playing dead at the arena. He probably thought Hanna was dead because of him and gave up like Samantha did. I also don't think he was a brown noser, he was just overcompensating because of his betrayal at the first tower. There were also a number of times he was willing to die or risk his life for the tower, or at least the main cast.
This is probably what he wrote in the journal in Bill's desk. I think the reason he didn't tell anyone in the tower is because they have some crazy rules. Seriously, are you going to tell people you were a spy when one of the rules is if you fall asleep you get kicked out. I believe Kalani has a death wish. He knew he was going to die somehow and he wrote his confession in the journal.

The plant in the We're Alive tower I believe is Steven. I don't really have much proof other than he didn't want to be in a room with Pippen. Oh Pippen. Why couldn't he have chosen a different spy name like Joe or Smith or something. The first spy wouldn't need to recognize Pippen by appearance, just by name. Anyway, the WA plant was probably not a Maller too. I think when the Mallers had the WA tower surrounded he took his chance to take revenge on Durai or the Mallers in general knowing that an attack would kill just as many Mallers than tower people.

[GeneTwo]

Going through the Maller war again, Kalani as a spy for the second tower makes sense. The plant at the WA tower defected and stopped contacting the Mallers. Why didn't the Mallers attack the WA tower while the trained soldiers were away? They left Paul and Pegs on guard with one gun. Pegs might as well as made a sign that said "take us over now" It must have take a couple of hours to find a route to the stadium. Come on, Bill enough time to steal the food and ammo.

Everyone gets back and they accidentally stop the zombie attack. Kalani had plenty of time to contact the Mallers to see if Hannah were still alive. Durai or Scratch threatens to kill Hannah again and Kalani spills the beans on the party and the ammo situation. The WA tower spy (who i think is Steven) sees Durai takes a shot at him, and the war starts.

[Zombiphobe]

I really don't think Steven was the Tower spy/rat. We really didn't hear of him until after the war when the mystery of "Who's the Rat" came up. If we were expected to try and figure out who the rat could be, then it should be someone we had already been introduced to.

Also, I would assume he came in with the group of "New Arrivals" in Chapter 3, since I don't recall any other influx of unnamed survivors. In that episode Michael narrates that the only people worth noting were Kelly and Tommy. If the Rat had been a part of that group, I'm sure his/her name would have been worth noting.

[nikvoodoo]

Also, I would assume he came in with the group of "New Arrivals" in Chapter 3, since I don't recall any other influx of unnamed survivors. In that episode Michael narrates that the only people worth noting were Kelly and Tommy. If the Rat had been a part of that group, I'm sure his/her name would have been worth noting.

This is by far the most damning piece of evidence against Steven as the rat. "Good job by you, buddy!" (In the Bill Simmons manner).

[Pikepaw]

I think people are leaping to conclusions that Hannah is being held by the Mallers. I remind you all we know next to NOTHING about her. Just that she is a girl of some importance to Kalani. He either mentioned her vaguely or had a picture of her in his journal that he willed to Angel and felt she was significant for Angel to know about. For all we know it could be that Kalani just wanted Angel to know about her so Hannah's memory could stay alive. We don't know if she is two or twenty or forty. We don't know if she was the red head on the golf course or not. (I don't believe she was the red head myself). Only KC, Kevin Flood and maybe Shane know who this Hannah girl is, we just know it was someone important to Kalani because he said "my Hannah"

The reason I say all this is because I don't believe Kalani is the rat. Clearly he could not have been a Maller in disguise or coerced before arriving at the Tower, because there is no way in hell anyone could guess he would make it there. As for spying on the "Other Tower", we have no evidence that the Mallers knew about it while it was still operational. They might know about the site now, with having explored further and then they would just have to clean up some bloodstains. As for shooting Pippin and then running really fast to the garage to leave with Datu, I mean come on people. Watch an episode of the Biggest Loser, Kalani is massive, he can't move that fast, not without coughing up a lung. Even Datu would have been suspicious if Kalani came to the car gasping and shortly afterwards he hears someone shot the Brit. Heck in Chapter 17 Angel was a little winded, but Kalani was about to die when the Behemoth had them cornered. In chapter 7 Saul jokes about Angel being out of shape, so clearly Kalani is far worse. As Nikvoodoo has stated, Kalani physically could not have shot Pippin and then escape without notice.

In conclusion Kalani is innocent and he died a damn hero. Let him rest in peace.

I believe the rat was some who became disgruntled by the lack of food and ammo and possibly the irresponsible decision for a party. While I want it to be Kelly, I analyzed it from a story perspective and thus decided it is probably Riley. She doesn't reveal much about herself and spends most of her time supporting others. I just think it would be an awesome dramatic moment for Angel to learn Riley is the Rat. Shane has does some amazing really emotional scenes with Angel. I would love to hear him react to the woman he cares about most in this apocalyptic world revealed to be a traitor. I don't know if Angel would get all emotional and just feel betrayed, get angry or go into denial and try to defend her from Michael. Ooh, the thought of it gives me goosebumps

[Eboogey]

Just a thought... I think Steven may be the rat.... I agree with most that Pippin was planted at the tower on purpose. I do not think he is the rat, but find that he is not being candid about his history with the mallers. To be so close to Scratch- considering she says they still have to drop him off- I find it hard to believe he was not privy to some if not all information in regards to what Scratch is up to- even if he was not the intended audience of such discussions. I do not think Pippin realizes that Scratch is using him as bait and to prove a point to the inhabitants of the tower-- big brother is watching:Bill is not the rat(1984 rocks!). I point to Steven bc I find it odd that he's so insistent on not watching Pippin when asked, like he is trying to avoid any extended period of time with him where both would be forced to interact. I also find it strange that he was so insistent in making Lizzie leave the Tower in past chapter. If Steven is the rat, he would be helping Scratch get to Lizzie easier if she were on her own and helpless for the most part. I think when Pippin says 'you?!?' prior to being killed, he recognizes steven from having recently meeting him earlier with the rest of then gang, has just put two and two together- having some knowledge of Scratch's plan realized. I do not believe Pippin is aware of who Scratch has on the inside.... Until that point.

My other theory is that the rat is in the tower, but not known to the inhabitants of the tower... Why should we assume that we have even been introduced to the mole? The stuff found in Bill's apartment could've been planted for all we know. Burt found everything after Bill died, and nothing else proves otherwise that Bill actually took all that stuff. This is another set up by Scratch and her crew to temporarily immobilize the tenants- no ammo no food-- no hope-- enough time to attack the tower with little resistance from the tenants. The rat would know of the relationship between the tenants and Bill- who better to blame stuff on- especially after he is out of the picture.

Lastly--Lizzie was feeling sick prior to the potential rape scene- something to think about if she were poisoned on purpose prior to finally leaving the Tower by the rat. I also thought perhaps she was preggers too and what drives Saul's irrationality is he knows she is too. He's not just hunting for her if indeed she is preggers, he searches for his unborn child as well. Either is plausible.

Just my thoughts

--signed
Eboogey

TOOWINPIIC!

[nikvoodoo]

In regards to your Pippin theory: We do know why Pippin was there in the Tower. It was revealed in Chapter 24 during the assault on the Tower when there's the cut scene with Scratch, Bricks, Tardust, and Lizzy what his role was. It was to tell Scratch if Pegs was in the Tower. He was beaten up to sell escape from the Mallers story to the Tower.

As for the "you" that could apply to anyone he has met in the Tower. It could have even been Pegs (whom he had not met). He'd know who he was searching for from a description and when she appears "You" could mean "Oh! There's the person I was looking for" and then he sees the gun at the side. Blam!

The reason we should assume we've met everyone that could possibly be the mole is because everyone else in the Tower is dead (presumably). They were either mowed down by zombies as they tried to escape, and whomever didn't make it to the motor pool would have been (again presumably) crushed by the building collapse. It's obviously hard to take Michael at his word that everyone died in the collapse since he's not there anymore to survey the wreckage, but the reason we didn't meet any of them who were important is because they weren't important. Remember what Michael says in chapter 3...the only people of consequence were Kelly and Tommy. He didn't mention Stephen as a person of great import and they had no new arrivals beyond that day.

Besides all that, I believe the rat has to be one of the 10 main characters (Michael, Saul, Angel, Lizzy, Riley, Pegs, Datu, Kelly, Kalani or Burt). Otherwise what's the point? What is the impact of having a heel turn on someone you don't know?

[jorgegamal]

Well it had to be someone that survived and was the person that was going up in the latter that was with pipin and had to be someone that everybody trusted angel or another person that is alive

[daredevil]

Pegs.

[Zombiphobe]

As Nikvoodoo has stated, Kalani physically could not have shot Pippin and then escape without notice.

I think Nikvoodoo was referring to Kalani's ability to run up to Bill's apartment on the top floor after shooting Pippin to stash the silenced pistol. We do not know for sure that this was the case as we weren't told the exact contents of Bill's desk. Taking that out of the equation, I definitely feel Kalani is physically capable of shooting Pippin and escaping without notice, based on the following timeline:

1. Datu heads down to the Parking Garage to get the car ready while Kalani goes to to tell Michael (on the 5th floor) that they are leaving.
2. Kalani then goes down to the 4th floor and cuts the wire in the hall before ducking into a neighboring apartment.
3. Angel leaves the Guard Room and heads up to the 5th floor Armory.
4. Kalani slips in and shoots Pippin and takes out the radio/communications.
5. Kalani heads down to the Parking Garage and leaves with Datu.
6. Kalani checks in with Burt over the radio and "learns" that communication with the Tower is out, giving the impression that they were en route at the time of the shooting.

In this scenario, Kalani never has to climb any stairs, he is only descending. He also would have had to descend the same number of stairs whether or not he stopped to shoot Pippin, because we know he talked to Michael before he left. So he should be in a comparable physical state when he gets to the Parking Garage.

[mageftw]

i believe kalani is the rat. my theory is kalani and his group from Hawaii are over run after landing. the maulers come to the rescue and holds Hannah (someone kalani cares about) hostage and tells kalani to be a rat at the tower in exchange for Hannah's life and the second tower was a place the mulers could put people so when kalani kill pipin(not confirmed) Hannah is shot at the golf course ending there agreement.

[clem131]

i believe kalani is the rat. my theory is kalani and his group from Hawaii are over run after landing. the maulers come to the rescue and holds Hannah (someone kalani cares about) hostage and tells kalani to be a rat at the tower in exchange for Hannah's life and the second tower was a place the mulers could put people so when kalani kill pipin(not confirmed) Hannah is shot at the golf course ending there agreement.
My trouble with Kalani somehow knowing that the redhead was Hannah (aside from having to come to the forums to understand what he was saying) is:
a) for some reason he has to assume there's only one redhead left between the mallers (it might be the case, I don't know how rare is this fenotype in California or Hawaii)
b) more importantly, we don't witness at all the hypothetical exchange taking place on the helicopter where he learns about it . I mean, if this is the case, this particular scene is too important to just happen in the background. I'm not saying he should gasp or weep or something obvious, but simply that the dialogue should be in the episode in some way, if Hannah was the redhead killed.

[Wilsas]

I don't know if anyone thought of that before, but I think the Rats (yes, plural) are Kelly and Tommy. That might be the reason why Kelly didn't want his camera idea to be approved (i figure he didn't want to be the rat anymore when he saw how cool the tower folk was, amirite? or he just was so frikkin' smart that he made the surveillance cameras thus not a single person would think hes the rat :O), I also believe Kelly had a change of heart when Tommy turned and everyone hesitated to shoot (can't remember if thats true or not), or given that Kelly is the rat and she was throwing the idea of taking a day off to make a window of opportunity for the attack and when Tommy turned, her heart turned as well (pretty much the same thing, but different motivator - guilt and realization). I also seem to remember scratch said something about "her" when dropping off Pippin (don't know if it was about Lizzy or the rat) if that was about the rat, it would mean that mallers dropped pippin off either to have two rats at all times, or to eliminate Kelly and take her place.
Oh, and before the attack tommy was the only person in the guard room, thus granting him +1 to his Rat ability.
Anyway, this whole theory sounded much much better in my head though it still looks plausible enough to me.
If you have something to add, please do :)

[nikvoodoo]

I'm going to leave Kelly out of this rebuttal because there's still too much evidence against her that I don't feel like arguing about.

But as for Tommy....I think you're off base. 1) because I think the rat needs to be alive for there to be an impact to the story. and 2) Tommy was in the guard room like you said. and if he was the rat, he could have disabled all the alarm systems and let the Mallers come right in. So....yeah. I think he was pretty well innocent of any chicanery.

[Wilsas]

Hmmm, i probably need another re-listening session and to read these looooong 30 pages to set everything straight, but I will try to support my theory :) I think Kc would make the rat thing really complicated (i mean Kelly knows how to set a strong alibi) and 1) Kelly (who i assume to be the rat) is still alive 2) if he disabled all the alarms that would be like saying, hey guys, I'm the rat.

Though thanks for the expert opinion, you made me see little more details :)

[daredevil]

One thing that still gets me about The War and the Rat is that the Rat contacted the Mallers before the party and if it wasn't Tommy. Who had a shift before Tommy and knew about the party before it was going to happen? Pegs. Maybe that's why Pegs was pushing a party so hard, because she had already discussed with the Mallers about it and they were coming on that day.

[Test subject 9]

but that would mean that the mallers were all ready coming on that day. i think they were waiting for the rat to say "today come by for some fun." it be easier to be ready and wait for the rat. then tell the rat to have the tower ready for them on a day that they set before hand.

[daredevil]

but that would mean that the mallers were all ready coming on that day. i think they were waiting for the rat to say "today come by for some fun." it be easier to be ready and wait for the rat. then tell the rat to have the tower ready for them on a day that they set before hand.

I'm thinking it was more like Pegs told the Mallers when to come over not the other way around.

[Wilsas]

Thats exactly what he said ;D "mallers were all ready" not already :P but what makes you think pegs was the rat? I think she is just... not a person of logic ;D

[daredevil]

Thats exactly what he said ;D "mallers were all ready" not already :P but what makes you think pegs was the rat? I think she is just... not a person of logic ;D

Well, Only Pegs knew about the party before it was going to happen and if we're all assuming that that rat and the killer are the same person then Pegs was at a perfect spot to do that too. She wasn't mentioned either. Also, when she killed Latch to protect Michael I think that she was not planning on The War, just the Mallers being in charge of the Tower.
Although I think the reason she had those Nightmares where that she lost someone important, maybe her Father or her Brother or someone and their body was never found. Maybe in a war or just street crime.

[Test subject 9]

But why kill latch. If she was the rat it would've been easy to call latch over say "I'm the rat help Michael and I will tell you what you need to know."

[daredevil]

But why kill latch. If she was the rat it would've been easy to call latch over say "I'm the rat help Michael and I will tell you what you need to know."

Because she might not have wanted to risk it, and her loyalty is with the Tower Folk and always has been, maybe she thought it was better to be safer for everyone in a larger group even if the Mallers were in charge. She wasn't sure if the Latch and Scratch would kill Michael, Maybe she had been talking with Durai.

[Test subject 9]

This has been troubling me and I haven't found anyone talking about it. when do you think the rat started talking to the mallers, And was it only once like most the story seems to show. Becaue this would show a lot about why they may have done it. Once could have been a person trying to release some stress they had about how the tower was being run. But if was more then once then they would have had a deep connections to the mallers which could bring more conflicts with in the group that they are now in.

[nikvoodoo]

This has been troubling me and I haven't found anyone talking about it. when do you think the rat started talking to the mallers, And was it only once like most the story seems to show. Becaue this would show a lot about why they may have done it. Once could have been a person trying to release some stress they had about how the tower was being run. But if was more then once then they would have had a deep connections to the mallers which could bring more conflicts with in the group that they are now in.
If it was a slow systematic betrayal then this person thought the Mallers had something to offer. Something that wasn't provided by the Tower (numbers maybe?). If it was immediate, then it was probably a reaction to Pinstripes infiltrating the Tower and nearly killing everyone.

I think either way spells badness for the Survivors of the Tower. After all, if the Rat has truly switched sides and is aligned with the Tower.....they still murdered Pippin to protect their own ass after their realignment. You've seen how far they are willing to go...

...What stops them from murdering a main character who finds out?

[Test subject 9]

Not a thing. And that should put the fear of God in to you.