Chapter 20 Part 1 Discussion

[nikvoodoo]

Discuss the episode here....and now!....well not now...it's 8:30am on the East coast....it hasn't been released yet but...


...Oh you know what I mean.

[nikvoodoo]

Great episode! It's great to hear the fire in Michael's voice again! Congrats to all those who predicted (although...I don't think anyone figured out exactly the way it happened) that Lizzy would end up where she's going now.

[j0be]

Holy crap! That ending was crazy! This will definitely be the beginning of a war between the Tower and the Colony. This is going to be absolutely crazy!

HAHA! And I so predicted the Maller's and Colony together!

[Kc]

Holy crap! That ending was crazy! This will definitely be the beginning of a war between the Tower and the Colony. This is going to be absolutely crazy!

HAHA! And I so predicted the Maller's and Colony together!

Tower and the Colony?

[nikvoodoo]

Holy crap! That ending was crazy! This will definitely be the beginning of a war between the Tower and the Colony. This is going to be absolutely crazy!

HAHA! And I so predicted the Maller's and Colony together!

wait....how is this the start of a War between the Colony and the Tower?

[j0be]

An interesting theory I think might develop out of this stuff is a mixed alliance. I think the Mallers may ally themselves with the colony, and the Tower will be hard pressed to defend themselves

This is where I said Mallers+Colony. The gatekeeper said "Scratch will know what to do with her" at the end of this episode. Pretty sure that means there is involvement between the colony and mallers.

They just took Lizzy captive, and once the Tower finds out about it, there will be some form of repercussions.

[nikvoodoo]

This is where I said Mallers+Colony. The gatekeeper said something about Scratch knowing what to do at the end of this episode. Pretty sure that means there is involvement between the colony and mallers.

They just took Lizzy captive, and once the Tower finds out about it, there will be some form of repercussions.

That wasn't gatekeeper. Though I can understand why you would be confused. They did sound somewhat similar in their speech pattern. I think I heard his name was Bricks or something like that.

Edit: The other guy that had the hand cuffs was named Bricks.

[j0be]

That wasn't gatekeeper. Though I can understand why you would be confused. They did sound somewhat similar in their speech pattern. I think I heard his name was Brick or something like that.

Huh, it struck me right away as gatekeeper. But now that I've re-listened to it, I may be wrong. :(

Also, Bricks was the subordinate.

[nikvoodoo]

Huh, it struck me right away as gatekeeper. But now that I've re-listened to it, I may be wrong. :(

According to KC and the Wiki pages he created, the two Mallers Lizzy encountered were called Bricks and Tardust. Tardust had the taser, and Bricks had the handcuffs and the list of run aways....

Which is interesting. Evidently things aren't going so well at the Strip mall these days. There are run aways that are being rounded up and taken back to be punished. Seems like an awful waste of resources.

[j0be]

According to KC and the Wiki pages he created, the two Mallers Lizzy encountered were called Bricks and Tardust. Tardust had the taser, and Bricks had the handcuffs and the list of run aways...
Bleh. I'm wrong. The voices sounded similar. Bleh.

[Kc]

According to KC and the Wiki pages he created, the two Mallers Lizzy encountered were called Bricks and Tardust.
In a few pieces, you'll be able to tell them apart. He's only been on the scene for about a minute.

[Zombiehead]

I've been spoiled with 20+ minute chapters, but I'm satisfied with my weekly fix.

Awesome work on the sound effects. I noted stuff like foot falls, crunching of glass/dirt, and general body movements overlapping during Lizzy's scene. Well done. I also felt that the transition shift for Burt coming off his high horse seemed natural.

[SuperSerge76]

Seriously. As soon as I heard "Scratch", I thought... Uh Oh, Spaghettios....

[yarri]

CRAP!!!! poor lizzy

[j0be]

I also felt that the transition shift for Burt coming off his high horse seemed natural.
Definitely. This scenario actually played out amazingly considering that it could have easily alienated a core cast member.

[yarri]

Saul is going to go ballistic when they get him on his feet.. Lizzy in the hands of Scratch = BAD really really BAD

[Meeks]

Seriously. As soon as I heard "Scratch", I thought... Uh Oh, Spaghettios....

My words exactly. I forsee another huge fight between the mallers and the tower. Only this time, I'm going to think...
My predictions:
I'm going to see the guy who called out Lizzy for sleeping, to be the narc, I mean, isn't is just... convenient.. that they found her at the dealership so fast? Even without the gunshot, it'd take some time to get down there. After she's in the mallers' area, when Michael and Burt go out on their expedition, they'll find that tape that Lizzie was making, which I'm going to say kept recording after they tazed her and heard "let's see what Scratch blah blah".
I forsee the next few episodes to be veeeerrryyy interesting (read the spoiler for my thoughts)

I hate how you do this to me KC, but we all must be masochists or something, because we wait on the edge of our seats every week for the next episode.

[nikvoodoo]

My words exactly. I forsee another huge fight between the mallers and the tower. Only this time, I'm going to think...
My predictions:
I'm going to see the guy who called out Lizzy for sleeping, to be the narc, I mean, isn't is just... convenient.. that they found her at the dealership so fast? Even without the gunshot, it'd take some time to get down there. After she's in the mallers' area, when Michael and Burt go out on their expedition, they'll find that tape that Lizzie was making, which I'm going to say kept recording after they tazed her and heard "let's see what Scratch blah blah".
I forsee the next few episodes to be veeeerrryyy interesting (read the spoiler for my thoughts)

I hate how you do this to me KC, but we all must be masochists or something, because we wait on the edge of our seats every week for the next episode.

You don't have to use the spoiler tags in chapter discussions. Spoilers are allowed here.

Here's what I think is likely to help along the eventual exchange of Lizzy from the Mallers: Thank Pegs. Pegs (by way of Angel) returned Latch's body to the Mallers. It still may not make them all buddy buddy, but I bet that Pegs desire to return Latch to the Mallers is going to play out in a positive manner for the Tower as they seek out Lizzy.

[j0be]

Here's what I think is likely to help along the eventual exchange of Lizzy from the Mallers: Thank Pegs. Pegs (by way of Angel) returned Latch's body to the Mallers. It still may not make them all buddy buddy, but I bet that Pegs desire to return Latch to the Mallers is going to play out in a positive manner for the Tower as they seek out Lizzy.
This will definitely play a role.

[icepatrol]

Omg, this episode was just amazing, i just kept repeating "Oh my god, Oh my god,..." After hearing this episode i think that the mole was actually Steven
cause of his dedication to kicking Lizzie out (Just a hunch). feel realy sorry for Burt..., though this
chapter did prove some peoples theory on how Burt was going to step down as leader. The part where
Lizzie start vlogging reminded me of "127 hours" which got me to think that shes going to struggle to survive.
The guy who captured Lizzie sounds an awful lot like Gatekeeper... maybe there brothers?
Though i think this episode shows that theres going to be a hostage senario kind of thing in the following chapters. Though what i find wierd is
how Tatu seemed oblivious to the fact that Lizzy was gone when he went to greet Michael and the others in chapter 19 part 3.

[j0be]

Though what i find wierd is how Tatu seemed oblivious to the fact that Lizzy was gone when he went to greet Michael and the others in chapter 19 part 3.

Tatu is a band, but yeah it seemed odd how blase EVERYONE was about Lizzy being kicked out at the end of 19-3 (including Datu)

[timberwoof]

Funny how they said Scratch will know what to do and not Dauri....

[Ryzilient]

Interesting, very interesting. I couldn't have predicted that it was through Lizzie's disappearance that we'd finally get a follow up with the Mallers. I would be interested to see if Scratch has changed somewhat since we last heard from her, and if she will take the act of good will by Pegs (Through Angel), into account.

Steven may be the mole, but somehow I'm not sure. I'm not certain if he was merely a plot device to cause a transistion of leadership between Burt and Michael, or if he has any further involvement down the line. He almost had too many lines in this episode to be a minor character...

[Kc]

However, this does help prevent accidental spoilering via the "Recent Forum Posts" on the Home page.
Oh! We should remove this post from going in there. Nik, can you exclude it?

[Zombiehead]

Listening to the dialogue going on in this chapter got me thinking about the Colony structure. Going back to Chapter 19, Gatekeeper was their pre-Tommy-death Kelly. As suspected before, Marcus' words start to make more sense, at least from his position. Seeing as how they have "contracts" for all persons present, I'm sensing that's a result of getting too many, too fast. Considering he was using a lie to stay in power, things got more difficult with more people making it harder to show leniency in cases like Lizzy's when you have someone constantly challenging the rules. I think Marcus was doing what he had to do to keep the Colony moving but he knew loyalties were strained. The more people you have the more problems occur. He wanted someone with experience and who was a natural leader like Michael to take some of the burden and keep people happy and maintain balance.

[ObamaCat]

Wow great episode. I totally thought "Tardust" was Gatekeeper and there was a joint Mallers + Colony thing going on. Excited to see how this chapter plays out.

[Rock Daddy]

Great episode! Opens up a lot of new questions too... Now we'll get to see the creepy inner workings of strip mall "land"!

[Zombiehead]

Interesting, very interesting. I couldn't have predicted that it was through Lizzie's disappearance that we'd finally get a follow up with the Mallers. I would be interested to see if Scratch has changed somewhat since we last heard from her, and if she will take the act of good will by Pegs (Through Angel), into account. I love Pegs, but I'm hoping Scratch will say "Lizzy for Pegs."

[nikvoodoo]

Oh! We should remove this post from going in there. Nik, can you exclude it?
I'll poke around and see what I can do about that.


Funny how they said Scratch will know what to do and not Dauri....

I thought that too. But I still want to believe Durai is still alive. And until I'm told otherwise, I have to believe he is. Much like there's still the possibility that Marcus alive...just in reverse.

I love Pegs, but I'm hoping Scratch will say "Lizzy for Pegs."
That would be an amazing chapter ending cliff hanger.

[Ra1th]

ok i'm going off topic here, but i caught something that no one else i dont think caught

Riley was not in her room last night

Angel was way too eager to go back to bed

Coincidence??? I THINK NOT!

[WestonWisdom]

I think Scratch being mentioned hints towards one of two things : Either Durai got usurped after the humiliation of the tower attack, as, although it can't been seen as a victory for either side, Durai was humiliated in the way he dealt with the situation, and Scratch was probably in line to replace him after her deeds during the initial outbreak(getting the mallers out of the prison). However, not everyone would have agreed with Scratch's leadership and therefore they became "runaways".

The other possibility is that Scratch is now working with the colony, having left the Mallers after the attack on the tower or another event we don't know about, and is now working to recapture the deserters after the coup, the only reason I feel this is a possibility is that the two mallers/colonists were surprised that Lizzy had a gun, and I don't envision such tight restriction on guns in the mallers camp in comparison to the colony, who had a very tight lockdown on weapons, and therefore guns would be easier to come by for fleeing Mallers.

[nikvoodoo]

ok i'm going off topic here, but i caught something that no one else i dont think caught

Riley was not in her room last night

Angel was way too eager to go back to bed

Coincidence??? I THINK NOT!

Angel going back to bed with the simple "OK" was how his actions were interpreted by Datu. It's not necessarily how it happened in real time...its just how Datu happened to see the situation.

That being said, intriguing. Very very intriguing.

[Ra1th]

Angel going back to bed with the simple "OK" was how his actions were interpreted by Datu. It's not necessarily how it happened in real time...its just how Datu happened to see the situation.

That being said, intriguing. Very very intriguing.

even if thats how datu interpreted it, he still went back to bed without looking into the situation, not very Angelic

hey u know what the title of the chapter is, and you know first hand they ALWAYS have double meanings, and this chapter feels like its gonna be jam packed, with stuff no room for victor and kelly out here

I'm sooo stoked for Angel right now! if that is what actually happened!!! :D:D:D:D

[timberwoof]

Brown chicken brown cow... Sorry the whole Angle-Riley thing.

[nikvoodoo]

even if thats how datu interpreted it, he still went back to bed without looking into the situation, not very Angelic

hey u know what the title of the chapter is, and you know first hand they ALWAYS have double meanings, and this chapter feels like its gonna be jam packed, with stuff no room for victor and kelly out here

I'm sooo stoked for Angel right now! if that is what actually happened!!! :D:D:D:D

You're completely right. I was playing devil's advocate to your Angel fan-boyness. It appears that Angel and Riley could be the double meaning of the chapter title, unless something else comes along. And honestly, we're set up for lots of stuff to happen right now...I have a hard time figuring out how a relationship fits into the storyline.....So maybe Angel/Riley might very well be the big happening.

[WestonWisdom]

I think this chapter is one of the instances(possibly the first?) that proves how subjective the Journals are in relation to personal interpretation, it also sets up the stage for people possibly lying in their Journals, which could possibly have a good payoff when the traitor is revealed.

[Pikepaw]

"I'd like to know what's going on before I bust some heads"
Going to my list of fav Michael quotes
So my theory is after Scratch roughs Lizzie up a bit, she will somehow try to use her to get Pegs, since Scratch really, really wants to murder Pegs

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

My two cents on this chapter:
I like how Lizzy took one for the team and allowed Burt to save face. Having said that, Burt should simply had said "She's not going" and that's that. Sorry Ra1th, but Angel isn't strong enough to back him up. Proof of that is him crying about being considered for the leadership position. Angel is a good manager but not a leader.
They would have been better off coming up with a plan for her to live in the "Sweat Test" building next door. I know I wouldn't go too far.
I like the double fed issue with the M16. One prime reason that carbine ain't for the faint of heart in the field.

[AdrianHD]

Lots to talk about here!

Durai: I simply think that this is a matter of Scratch having more to do with the Tower than Durai. In the long run of things, who would be more eager to see one of the Tower residents in their hands? The girl whose brother got killed.

Lizzy: I can't imagine she walked too far from the Tower. It was a day of travel which was also filled with her finding food. Which gets me to thinking: exactly how much of the Mallers died in the War? Obviously, a lot died. Not enough to not bring down the essential structure. If that's the case, why haven't there been other instances of fighting? Sure, because they got their asses handed to them, this is more just me rambling off.

Saul: Saul's big return is coming soon. He has the biggest attachment to Lizzy. The quest to get Lizzy wouldn't be as heartfelt if Saul's not there. Hopefully this next part will be half of what's happening to Lizzy and half of the Tanya/Saul story.

[Cutting-T]

Although it has already been disproved, the way I interpreted the scene was that 'Brick' and "Stardust' were two grunts from the colony who were looking for 'runners' who must have run away during the 'shoot-out'. When they said 'Scratch will know what to do' I just assumed that the gatekeeper was one of the mallers who had been sent to the Colony to take it over from the inside and that now the Colony was under complete maller control. We know that mallers aren't happy with staying in a 'mall' anyway.

Anyway, Stephen sounds like a new candidate for the 'mole'.

[nikvoodoo]

Why do I get the impression that if we heard Mary say something mean spirited we would all consider her the Rat? Every time there's a character that does or says something that isn't approved of by the audience, they suddenly become the rat.

Not that I'm hatin'... I'm just sayin'

[timberwoof]

It's just, we are basically arm chair quarterbacking the scenario. Is there a big possibility Stephen is the rat? Yes. Only because it seems he really was pushing for lizzy to be kicked out so badly. But who knows, hell Kelly could be the rat. At this point I'm like the guys on the show. To many variables and the rat will show him or herself in time. And right now I don't think the mallers and the colony are running together only because Gatekeeper has more power and a stronger position now. Why would he want to be subordinate to somebody who has less people, firepower and resources?

[Pen]

I have to admit that I have no idea who the rat is. I don't think it's Steven tho. Awesome episode, I can't wait for next week's chapter. I'm excited to see what the mallers are up to, especially Scratch!

[Hollomandious]

Beautiful episode. But dammit, i was hoping to find out the Saul & Tanya connection. Hopefully next week.

[mush_rooms]

Well I think what we learned this week is that you simply can't trust anyone named Stephen/Steven...XD

Anyway, on a serious note, really hoping to find out how the Colony-folk are adjusting next episode. However, I think it's very fair that they weren't mentioned this episode. There was entirely too much going on, so fitting the Tanya/Saul interaction just would've been very off-track.

Burt surprised me, I was expecting the kick-out to be a result of a bad ego-trip on his part. Actually, everyone kind of surprised me! Yay! One thing that I did miss, and I can't believe I'm saying this...is Kalani being a smartass in the background of everyone's conversations lol. He's a douche, but makes for good entertainment. Never would've thought I'd be hoping for more Kalani. O_o Weird!

[Pen]

Well I think what we learned this week is that you simply can't trust anyone named Stephen/Steven...XD

Anyway, on a serious note, really hoping to find out how the Colony-folk are adjusting next episode. However, I think it's very fair that they weren't mentioned this episode. There was entirely too much going on, so fitting the Tanya/Saul interaction just would've been very off-track.

Burt surprised me, I was expecting the kick-out to be a result of a bad ego-trip on his part. Actually, everyone kind of surprised me! Yay! One thing that I did miss, and I can't believe I'm saying this...is Kalani being a smartass in the background of everyone's conversations lol. He's a douche, but makes for good entertainment. Never would've thought I'd be hoping for more Kalani. O_o Weird!

Burt suprised me too Mush_rooms. I like him even more now! =)

[Zombiehead]

For once, I agree with Nikvoodoo. Just because someone speaks up doesn't make them guilty of a crime. From what Burt said tension was building in the Tower since Michael left. Lizzy's incident and Burt's initial solution was just enough to cause an eruption.

[Wicked Sid]

I hope those two at the end are actually cops working with Scratch and co. That would be an awesome turn of events.

Stephen sounds like a Marcus clone with the attitude of early Kelly. Damn similar peraonalities.

[nikvoodoo]

For once, I agree with Nikvoodoo. Just because someone speaks up doesn't make them guilty of a crime. From what Burt said tension was building in the Tower since Michael left. Lizzy's incident and Burt's initial solution was just enough to cause an eruption.

I'm sure this isn't the first time we agreed on something..........just don't ask what the other thing might be.....

For all intents and purposes Stephen was right. Lizzy messed up and could have killed everyone in the Tower by falling asleep on guard duty. And what a shocker: she was too tired because she is paying too much attention to Saul. Very big of Lizzy to voluntarily accept eviction to save the greater leadership structure of the Tower. Damn shame she ended up with Angel's crapped out rifle (total speculation, I just know his gun kept jamming in the beginning of the series).

[Charlie]

Newbie here saying hello and, wow, what an episode! Some amazing doing, getting us caught up on what happened so quickly.

I agree that being a jerk doesn’t make Stephen a traitor, though I hope they manage to feed him to the mallers. ;)

Also, thrilled to see Michael stepping up and taking names. How crazy that it was his rules that got Lizzy kicked out. Lucky that he’s really learned a thing or two from his experience at the colony.

I wonder how much Pegs told Lizzy about Scratch and Latch and if she knows about Pegs getting Angel to return Latch’s body. If she knows anything at all, she is smart enough to find a way to use it.

I figure the two thugs reporting back to Scratch is just a chain of command thing. And I’m betting that Scratch will surprise us in some way.

[MrScott101]

Ok I'm going on a long limb and probably way off base but I don't think stephen is the mole I still think Kalani is, But what if Stephen has a thing for Lizzy and just prior to her shift she was knocking boots with Saul and Stephen found out without them knowing. Got pissed and spiked her beverage causing her to fall asleep and thereby setting up the scenario to be booted. I mean he was overly pissed off about the situation. Plus it could fit in with the double meaning as in, she gets pregnant???

[RamblinMike]

Great episode. I'll get my two cents in before there's too many posts for me to read. (I feel bad for you, KC! Flooded by your own fame).

It occurs to me that Lizzy is the best person for Scratch to capture, because Lizzy is aware more than anybody of Pegs' remorse. When Angel dropped off Latch's body, Scratch said, "This doesn't change anything" - but I think it does. The return of Latch's body will have worked as somewhat of an olive branch, and if Scratch talks to Lizzy at all about it, I bet it will go well for the Tower. Ra1th, maybe you'll even get your teamup.

The talk from the Mallers about deserters/stragglers is just weird. It sounds as if they were in league with Gatekeeper, perhaps working as hired guns to seek out the folks who escaped. Mallers would have known who belonged to them and who could have escaped, but they needed to check Lizzy's ID to find out who she is. That might be significant.

One person wondered whether the Mallers would even question somebody having a gun, but don't forget how short they are on munitions in the first place. When we first met Latch and Scratch, they were armed but had no ammo.

I can't wait to get some of these questions answered!

[Eviebae]

Beautiful episode. But dammit, i was hoping to find out the Saul & Tanya connection. Hopefully next week.

You know, the first time I read that I thought--Nah, what were the odds? But I'm going through the podcasts again and noticed his Mom lived in Anaheim which is kinda near. At least, they could be related somehow or she knew his Mom.

[MrScott101]

I think there was a shift in power with the mallers and Scratch is now heading them up, as far as the question of the gun. That's more of a the mallers have already scoured everywhere and know a powerful gun such as that isn't just lying around. I don't think there is any correlation right now with the mallers and the colony, besides contact would have to be physical as the colony couldn't even reach the tower. So radio contact would be impossible with the mallers by the colony??

[Hollomandious]

Another double meaning idea. <br />
<br />
Michael is back at the tower and in charge. He may end up going back to his old ways and putting Peggs at a distance. In a way saying, &quot;Look... about the beach house...

[fraggot]

This episode is one of the best reasons that this show reminds me of LOST(and that's a good thing). Almost everyone had their theories and were almost sure of what was going to come, but Kc always throws us a super curve ball of epic proportions we were never expecting.

Keep up the good work Kc

[Pikepaw]

The reason they questioned Lizzy about the gun thing is that she was carrying an M16. An army rifle, not just a pistol or a shotgun or some hunting rifle. You don't find an M16 in a regular gun store or under the counter of a 7/11 and LIzzie doesn't look like a soldier to these Mallers. These guys had also already raided the reserve center of guns. I think they were surprised she had an assault rifle as opposed to just a firearm. If it was just a .22 or a revolver or something, they wouldn't have batted an eye (Although still take it, a gun is a gun after all)

[GChild78]

I feel the same way...and it really makes no sense for Stephen/Steven to be the rat cause, let's face it, who would care if he was? It's not like we really know who he is, you know? How many of you cared that Paul died? I didn't. This Stephen guy just realized that they were on a sinking ship and Burt wasn't cut out to lead, and like gatekeeper, wants complete power. If you listen carefully, he says, "I'd have no problem enforcing the rules...". I think he made such a big scene to get most people on his side and overthrow Burt. I really hope Micheal shovel slaps the taste out of his mouth!!!

[itsallgoodie]

So, Im going to be honest here, I have not read all these posts, so if i am reiterating what someone else has said, my bad. Anyway, what if the Mole feels bad now, and they are on good terms with scratch -- unlikely, but maybe the mole has leverage. this means that it may not be as hard to get lizzy back as we think. This does have a pretty good chance of being wrong though as two captors of lizzy sounded as though scratch would be very pleased to have someone from the tower.

[clem131]

Maybe I'm just a newb here on the forums, but what's this talking about the mole? Wasn't it Bill? He stole and hid the guns and ammo and then called on the mallers. Isn't that it?
It is actually one of the less convincing parts of the series for me ("hey there, you're having a party, I'm your buddy! Wait, I betrayed you! Wait, I changed my mind, I will fight with you to save the tower! But still I won't tell you where the guns and ammo are, otherwise I might be too successful in saving the tower!" and then he simply dies and we'll never know) so if it actually turns out I misunderstood that, I'm glad. Our brains are simply not wired for radio drama anymore, and a lot of misunderstanding happens all the time (like with the fake-gatekeeper in this last episode).

[Beaumont]

I love Pegs, but I'm hoping Scratch will say "Lizzy for Pegs."

Yeah that's what I was thinking too. I just hope we get more background on the Mallers or at least Scratch and Durai.

[jratliff811]

You guys are right that did really sound like gatekeeper. Glad to know it wasn't. This would imply that gatekeeper has already settled in as the leader of the colony and begun forming relationships with the mallers.

LOL. That's funny.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Chem,
nah it wasn't Bill. I know there are a LOT of threads here, but go and take a look through some of them. Read the "Who's the Rat" posts and poll.
I won't even push my own theory here. Suffice to say that Bill only stole weapons and food.

[jratliff811]

Funny how they said Scratch will know what to do and not Dauri....

You are right, I'm guessing Mr. Dauri did not make it out of the last battle with the tower.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

You guys really think Scratch is strong enough to overthrow Durai? I don't. He's too strong a character. I mean unlike Marcus, he has a strength of character and a natural leader. I do think she's devious enough to sow discord, has she though? I don't think so because she and her brother are/were way too scared of Durai and he doesn't strike me as the kind of cat who'd let a slight go without a confrontation.
She's no Gatekeeper

But lets just say Durai was killed or wounded in the "War"... Then you'd have Scratch running things and breakdown in cohesion makes sense.

[timberwoof]

That was one of the last lines and it just stuck out as odd to me. What I'm thinking though after looking at some of the discussions are a couple scenarios to this. <br />
1. Scratch is now in charge...

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Scrath is the "Punisher" anyway. Remember how she killed that cat for messing up for sleeping on duty (sound familiar) even though it was a false accusation. Durai left it up to her to question and deal with him. She just knew better than to go in there with the truth.
She didn't have any issues feeding that dude to the creatures.

scenario one: The mallers split and you have Scratch leading one (not likely in my eyes).
scenario two: Mallers decided to take chances on their own right after the attack. simultaneous mass exodus. Remember, it wasn't a very organized retreat. They were under attack themselves then.

I think Durai is the kind of cat who's not going to take defection very well. He'll look at it as losing face and disrespect. A personal affront. So, he sends out the hounds and Scratch is the head Hound.

[Ten]

I can't wait to see what Michael does to this Stephen guy.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Ten,

It's not Mike he has to worry about, it's Saul. LOL

[Zombiehead]

I'm sure this isn't the first time we agreed on something..........just don't ask what the other thing might be.....LOL! My reply didn't come out the way it sounded in my head. It wasn't meant negatively! <3 Voodoo

[nikvoodoo]

LOL! My reply didn't come out the way it sounded in my head. It wasn't meant negatively! <3 Voodoo

I know it wasn't. No worries! Besides, I keep a running tally in my head of who I don't agree with often on the forums and you don't pop up all that often... yet..... ;)

[mem]

wife and i were wondering about saul and what he knows about lizzy's leaving. he must really be out of it for no one to have said "man saul is trying to chew through his restraints to get up and go find her" guess this will be addressed in one of the next episodes. i can picture him in a wheelchair or hover round out looking for her with iv bottles clanking !

[Zombiehead]

wife and i were wondering about saul and what he knows about lizzy's leaving. he must really be out of it for no one to have said "man saul is trying to chew through his restraints to get up and go find her" guess this will be addressed in one of the next episodes. i can picture him in a wheelchair or hover round out looking for her with iv bottles clanking !Lizzy requested that they not tell him.

[mascaria]

Lizzy requested that they not tell him.

Which leads me to believe that this JUST happened like within the past day or two. If Saul is doing ok-ish then he'll realize pretty quickly that she's not coming to see him anymore.

[WestonWisdom]

After relistening, I think this chapter really showed a strength in character from Burt and Lizzy that I wouldn't have expected from either of them.

[j0be]

How crazy that it was [Michael's] rules that got Lizzy kicked out.

It actually wasn't even one of the original rules. It was added because of Kelly falling asleep when Latch and Scratch first made it to the tower. (BTW, welcome)

[WestonWisdom]

I really should put this in one post, but, this chapter shows the effect that the colony had on michael in general in my opinion, with him reconsidering the rules(a factor that had always concerned me) and his re-established confidence.

[Onslaught]

When the gun jammed and Lizzy heard the people I was like oh shit, this can't be good. When they mentioned scratch it got worse.
Anybody think Scratch will recognize her? she only saw her from a distance so its likely that scratch wouldn't recognize her. Right?

Ahhh, if only she had Saul's magic bolt cutters from the first chapter.

[WestonWisdom]

When the gun jammed and Lizzy heard the people I was like oh shit, this can't be good. When they mentioned scratch it got worse.
Anybody think Scratch will recognize her? she only saw her from a distance so its likely that scratch wouldn't recognize her. Right?

Ahhh, if only she had Saul's magic bolt cutters from the first chapter.

I'm not sure the lack of recognition would do Lizzy any good, I personally think Lizzy will buckle under pressure or Scratch will recognise her.

[j0be]

I'm not sure the lack of recognition would do Lizzy any good, I personally think Lizzy will buckle under pressure or Scratch will recognise her.

There's plenty of situations that could arise from this capture. I'm pretty sure that whatever it is, the return of John's body will play a role in it.

[GChild78]

When the gun jammed and Lizzy heard the people I was like oh shit, this can't be good. When they mentioned scratch it got worse.
Anybody think Scratch will recognize her? she only saw her from a distance so its likely that scratch wouldn't recognize her. Right?

Ahhh, if only she had Saul's magic bolt cutters from the first chapter.

In my opinion, I think Scratch is gonna be like, "Lizzy! The one that lied to me about the tower being defenseless!"

[Walrusgus]

Awesome episode. I was surprised Burt seemed so... nice!
So Scratch is back ae. Well her and Lizzy are good friends! Can't wait for the next episode to find out how they great each other.

[Ra1th]

Man that chatbox is distracting, i just read through like 80 posts to catch up. <br />
<br />
Alright first things first, <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Come now crowbar, you can't really expect to hit Angel like that and NOT have me...

[ObamaCat]

Scratch is not the leader of the Mallers. Durai is not dead. Durai is fine. Do I have evidence for this? No, no I do not. But I do know how stories work. You don’t introduce an extremely powerful character like Durai, and then kill him off behind the scenes. Durai is not the type of man who would give up power either, so no scratch did not usurp his title, not without him dying, and like I said before, its not likely he’s dead.

So are you saying you don't believe Marcus is dead either, having being "killed off" behind the scenes? Do you think it's likely that both of them are alive? Personally I have to think that one or the other is actually dead.

[beezball]

I'm a little surprised we didn't hear anything on Saul this week. I wonder if this spells disaster for the Saul and Dr. connection.

[Ra1th]

So are you saying you don't believe Marcus is dead either, having being "killed off" behind the scenes? Do you think it's likely that both of them are alive? Personally I have to think that one or the other is actually dead.

i wouldnt go that far, marcus might rly be dead, but wow u bring up a really good point. damn... i've got nothing. You win this round sir! But i have a gut feeling Durai isnt dead, just too high up on the chain of command to be bothered by news of a straggler.

Beezball, considering the lizzy catastrophe that's going on, and how fired up Michael is, I wouldn't expect the action to slow down, and for us to talk about saul and tanya just yet. The next chapter will probably be rounding up a search and rescue team and having them depart. But there's probably going to be a dual storyline, one with the search team, and one back at the tower.

[yarri]

I'm not sure the lack of recognition would do Lizzy any good, I personally think Lizzy will buckle under pressure or Scratch will recognize her.

Scratch will recognize her first. Lizzy is a tough cookie. She won't buckle easily.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Ra1th, Ra1th, Ra1th..

Remember the epi when Saul and Angel found Burt? Well, Saul school your boy in the hummer about why he basically won't lead. At the time it was because he expected respect because he's doing "everything every one else is."
You're aren't going to assume leadership by asking "Well what about me??"
You know why Burt took over? It wasn't because he's better than Angel. It's because he demanded it and took it by force of personality.
Compare the time that Burt's been there and the time Angel has been there. No way should Burt have been number 2, but he got it.

Ok, enough beating up on your boy. I agree that Durai is alive and kicking it, but i'm going to still fight you on your team up theories. LOL. You just want mass chaos huh?
I think the search and recovery team gets intercepted by the towers and Michael puts his foot down about THEIR area.
I'm going to close this by saying..
Lizzy should'a had a CROWBAR!

[Yoyo]

I'm new here but i want to take the time to agree with the sentiment about Angel. He's easily my favorite character and I second the fact he would be as good as Burt in leadership. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I see...

[beezball]

I'm just surprised that they didn't even talk about or tease it at all. In my mind it would have been the first thing I would have done. Michael hasn't seen Saul in weeks and I would have to check on him even if were for just a minute. But nope, they just ran right back out to find Lizzy. It just seemed strange is all.

[Ra1th]

really? they said saul was fine, and the doctor is on the way. Lizzy on the other hand was kicked, sooooo, i'd say lizzy'll be the priority, other than that, i dont think Michael will be going on the search and rescue mission either. The tower is in chaos, the leader shouldnt leave because idiots like steven will cause chaos, so I think he'll stay behind, Plus we've seen soooo much of MPK lately, i think we'll follow some others, probably angel, burt, and riley for sure. but if michael isnt on the search mission, he can go around and check on saul

[beezball]

I realize they said he was fine, but he would seem a key person to talk to about Lizzy. Either way, I completely agree about focusing on other characters for a change.

[HardKor]

Here's a little food for thought on the whole Lizzie\Mallers situation: Are there any female mallers other than Scratch? If the mallers are all prisoners from Eastern Bay, prisons aren't typically co-ed. We know Scratch is there because she went to break out Latch but she's the only female maller we know of. So now Lizzie is being dragged into a situation that just might rival the Arena is terms of high octane nightmare fuel.

[Yoyo]

Here's a little food for thought on the whole Lizzie\Mallers situation: Are there any female mallers other than Scratch? If the mallers are all prisoners from Eastern Bay, prisons aren't typically co-ed. We know Scratch is there because she went to break out Latch but she's the only female maller we know of. So now Lizzie is being dragged into a situation that just might rival the Arena is terms of high octane nightmare fuel.

Well, I think they have to have some around in that he had to check if she was one of theirs.If they didn't have any, I doubt they would have to look her up. I say that they do only because the found girl survivors that they forced into their community but other than that, idk.

[Ra1th]

Ra1th, Ra1th, Ra1th..

Remember the epi when Saul and Angel found Burt? Well, Saul school your boy in the hummer about why he basically won't lead. At the time it was because he expected respect because he's doing "everything every one else is."
You're aren't going to assume leadership by asking "Well what about me??"
You know why Burt took over? It wasn't because he's better than Angel. It's because he demanded it and took it by force of personality.
Compare the time that Burt's been there and the time Angel has been there. No way should Burt have been number 2, but he got it.

Ok, enough beating up on your boy. I agree that Durai is alive and kicking it, but i'm going to still fight you on your team up theories. LOL. You just want mass chaos huh?
I think the search and recovery team gets intercepted by the towers and Michael puts his foot down about THEIR area.
I'm going to close this by saying..
Lizzy should'a had a CROWBAR!


I guess you’re right about that. That ability to demand leadership, and yell out an order and expect it to be followed is what Angel still lacks. He still doesn’t have the fire. But I guess baby steps, like you said, the first time Angel wondered why he wasn’t leader, it was because he lacked experience, and leadership in the field. He’s gained that part now, but now he lacks Michael and Burt’s fire, and their wanting to do it their way. Well in good time hopefully, he’ll learn this just like he learned everything else. ONE DAY CROWBAR ONE DAY! Hahaaa as for the team up theory, I’m not going so far as a maller/tower team up, I’m pretty annoyed with the Mallers on how they treated lizzy, but I still want a crazy insane all out battle between the colony, the Mallers and the tower and I want a FAT zombie hoard in there too. I don’t care who’s fighting with who really, I just wanna see the biggest fattest battle possible.

Beezball, Saul’s unconscious half the time so that’s prly why Michael didn’t go see him, that and, it might be better to keep lizzy’s departure from saul for as long as possible just to keep him from panicking or doing something stupid, cause he is in a pretty fragile state right now

oh and Yoyo, join my angel fanclub!

[Zombiehead]

1.) When Latch asked to trade the Lizzie for the Tanker, I do wonder a little if she may have a thing for girls. I wouldn't put any money on that thought as it could be my mind going through the gutter but I'm thinking for a story possibility it is still open. If anything though now, Latch would probably just beat Lizzie till the living daylights are knocked out of her.

Welcome to the forums.

I think you meant "Scratch" instead of "Latch." Latch is Scratch's twin brother. Scratch suggested Lizzy do something for Latch in exchange for the tanker.

EDIT:
Now that I relisten to that part, she didn't specifically say for Latch. She said "... for us." Hmm... I think Lizzy is trouble.

[nikvoodoo]

I guess you’re right about that. That ability to demand leadership, and yell out an order and expect it to be followed is what Angel still lacks. He still doesn’t have the fire. But I guess baby steps, like you said, the first time Angel wondered why he wasn’t leader, it was because he lacked experience, and leadership in the field. He’s gained that part now, but now he lacks Michael and Burt’s fire, and their wanting to do it their way.

That's the thing. Leaders don't demand leadership. They are given leadership. We saw Marcus demand leadership and it got him killed (lets just assume he is for this argument. I don't want to crack this pandora's box open in this thread). It's not that Angel doesn't have fire, Angel doesn't have the charisma to lead. Angel's intangibles fall behind Michael's in every way. People would do anything for Michael. But as for those intangible, can't quite put your finger on it reasons: nobody would seem to do the same for Angel.

Michael has charisma in spades. Burt even had it, but not as much and he burned through his pretty damn quick with the residents. But for some reason, despite Angel's charming personality and quick wit, his leadership charisma is nearly non-existent.

[Zombiehead]

So about Lizzy!

Who thinks her psycharist skills may come in to play with the Mallers?

[nikvoodoo]

So about Lizzy!

Who thinks her psycharist skills may come in to play with the Mallers?

Silly Zombiehead.... focusing the topic back to where it's supposed to be as two admins trade haymakers on an unrelated subject.....:p

I think it will have to. she's got the skills in her back pocket, and while it may not help her get any concessions from the Mallers, she might get some invaluable insight into their group psychology.

[Ten]

Ten,

It's not Mike he has to worry about, it's Saul. LOL

True enough. But I'm thinking this guy is gonna pop off to Mike before Saul is back on his feet about getting her back.

[Edit]
Also, I've been waiting for the scenario where somebody gets pushed to the point where they shoot one of the other survivors in the tower. This might push Saul to said point. Doubt it'll happen but it is an event I've been waiting to happen.

[VeritableHero]

Also, I've been waiting for the scenario where somebody gets pushed to the point where they shoot one of the other survivors in the tower. This might push Saul to said point. Doubt it'll happen but it is an event I've been waiting to happen.I don't see it as happening with Saul. He may be crazy "in like" with Lizzy but not dumb enough to take that action. He would definitely go out to rescue / find her before shooting someone.

[Th3_T3ch]

After reading all of the paragraphs of posts, I have lost a good sense of what this conversation is about. Are we debating if Angel is a good leader or if Angel will eventually become a leader. I don't mean to intrude on your amazing debate, but this was originally a thread for the Chapter 20 Part 1 episode. I am enjoying reading this all though so please, by all means, continue.

[nikvoodoo]

After reading all of the paragraphs of posts, I have lost a good sense of what this conversation is about. Are we debating if Angel is a good leader or if Angel will eventually become a leader. I don't mean to intrude on your amazing debate, but this was originally a thread for the Chapter 20 Part 1 episode. I am enjoying reading this all though so please, by all means, continue.

No, you're right. the conversation started about what happened with in the episode with Angel missing another opportunity to lead. It has since devolved into something else altogether. There's a new thread dedicated to this topic now here: http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?1247-Will-Angel-Ever-Take-Control-of-the-Tower. I've moved all the posts dedicated to the topic exclusively to that thread. posts that contained chapter 20-1 information are still here in all their glory.

[Robalypse]

Just want to throw my two cents in on some of the discussions that have been cropping up in this thread. Many of my own sentiments were already kind of echoed by Ra1th, who is obviously a very smart character since I agreed with much of what he had to say.

The Tanya and Saul connection: There did seem to be a bit of foreshadowing with some of Tanya's interest in seeing Saul, so I do understand people wondering if there's a personal connection, but I'm thinking it might be something else. Like maybe from what she's heard, granted it might not be much, she's starting to put two and two together and wonder if what he's struggling with is the infection and that's why she's a bit anxious to see him. It could also be that she's simply a doctor and wants to deal with the patient before settling in. I have doubts about the mother and son connection for several reasons:

1. Hopefully this doesn't come off as bigoted, but I always assumed by her voice, that Tanya is an African American woman. I always imagined Saul as possibly being Latino by his voice. That of course doesn't mean what I hear in possibly the actors actually applies to the characters, but that's part of why I have a hard time imagining the connection.
2. Saul sounds like he was a bit of a troubled kid. We know that he even got in some trouble with the law and had to jump through some hoops to even get in the army. Not that it's in any way beyond the realm of possibility, but would the child of a doctor, who sounds from her relationship with Hope like she'd be a pretty great mom, be a street wise juvenile delinquent? I doubt it.

As for Durai: It's probably already been said by others, but Durai is too much of a bad mother to have just been killed off or booted by the rest of the mallers. The character on the page fueld by the excellent job of the actor that plays him, had enough personality that he came off more as the Darth Vader or even the Emperor of this ship to go so quietly into the night.

I don't know that the show would go into quite this dark of a territory like say, The Road, but in reality, Lizzy, a good looking young woman being abducted and dragged off to a compound of convicts, is pretty damn scary. While I feel for Burt's situation, everyone in that tower needs a shovel in the face for lettting her go out on her own like that. If I was Saul, I'd be done lifting a finger to help anyone there out...

[nikvoodoo]

Just want to throw my two cents in on some of the discussions that have been cropping up in this thread. Many of my own sentiments were already kind of echoed by Ra1th, who is obviously a very smart character since I agreed with much of what he had to say.

Oh....now you've done it....you made Ra1th happy.....*sigh* ;)



1. Hopefully this doesn't come off as bigoted, but I always assumed by her voice, that Tanya is an African American woman. I always imagined Saul as possibly being Latino by his voice. That of course doesn't mean what I hear in possibly the actors actually applies to the characters, but that's part of why I have a hard time imagining the connection.

This came up before on the forums in the If We're Alive Was a TV Show. Though Saul does have occasional a latino flavor in his voice, he is in fact African American.


2. Saul sounds like he was a bit of a troubled kid. We know that he even got in some trouble with the law and had to jump through some hoops to even get in the army. Not that it's in any way beyond the realm of possibility, but would the child of a doctor, who sounds from her relationship with Hope like she'd be a pretty great mom, be a street wise juvenile delinquent? I doubt it.

There are children of privilege running amok all over the place. Saul said he stole things because he needed the money. Perhaps that's because mommy dearest had cut him off to force him to get a job and make a living for himself. Besides, careers in the medical profession can result in less time at home. As Saul hasn't mentioned a father either his wasn't around or was also very busy which means Saul would be left alone...a lot. Giving a kid a lot of time to himself to get in trouble.

It seems that the jumping through hoops would be a result of him being a convicted criminal. That's what I always thought.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

That's a pretty good theory on Saul Nik. I'll buy that for a dollar!

[Yoyo]

Oh....now you've done it....you made Ra1th happy.....*sigh* ;)




This came up before on the forums in the If We're Alive Was a TV Show. Though Saul does have occasional a latino flavor in his voice, he is in fact African American.



There are children of privilege running amok all over the place. Saul said he stole things because he needed the money. Perhaps that's because mommy dearest had cut him off to force him to get a job and make a living for himself. Besides, careers in the medical profession can result in less time at home. As Saul hasn't mentioned a father either his wasn't around or was also very busy which means Saul would be left alone...a lot. Giving a kid a lot of time to himself to get in trouble.

It seems that the jumping through hoops would be a result of him being a convicted criminal. That's what I always thought.

Aww, that made me sad as LA has a big hispanic population and Being hispanic, liked the idea of Saul being Latino. Would it be wrong to still think in my mind he is = O

Other than that, I don't remember the pictures shown to tanya shown Saul face and there would be good reason not to. In case something went wrong, I doubt they would want to show someone the face of one of the tower residents if they didn't have to. In this case, I wouldn't be suprise if Tanya herself was shocked that it was Saul that was sick.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I think we might be reading too much into it though. I won't be suprised if Tanya's apparrent eagerness to see Saul is just for the fact that he's sick. KC may drop such brow raising comments for this exact purpose, to get us to be excited. But then again to just let such a curious tidbit end up being nothing would be pretty crappy. Damn it! Now I'm uncertain about the whole Tanya/Saul situation!
[EDIT] Saul is black? I thought he was Hispanic too. Damn. I'll have to change the image of him I have in my head (Masuka from Dexter, who I know is not Hispanic but still...).


But yeah, I do think Steve is a douche who was looking to take the leadership position away from Bill. He was such a jerk that he called Lizzie out on her lie; that Bert had kicked her out. He was all like, "Nah, Bert didn't say that." I don't think he was saying this to keep Lizzie from getting kicked out, but rather to say that Bert lacked the ability to follow through with rules. Steve seemed to really believe that Lizzie should be kicked out for sleeping on the job. In my book, he's a dick.

[Th3_T3ch]

For Britt, I believe, and correct me if I'm mistaken Kc, that in between Burt's lines, the argument moved downstairs.
A question to everyone, who was the person who said," Michael, your back," at the beginning of the episode?

[Robalypse]

This came up before on the forums in the If We're Alive Was a TV Show. Though Saul does have occasional a latino flavor in his voice, he is in fact African American.

Wow, really? Dammit, that messes with my mental visualization of him. Not that it would be at all a concern if I hadn't already firmly established how he looked in my head. Oh well, I'll just pretend I didn't read this so all is safe in my established "We're Alive" headspace. If that is the case though, it certainly shoots down my doubts in that area.


There are children of privilege running amok all over the place. Saul said he stole things because he needed the money. Perhaps that's because mommy dearest had cut him off to force him to get a job and make a living for himself. Besides, careers in the medical profession can result in less time at home. As Saul hasn't mentioned a father either his wasn't around or was also very busy which means Saul would be left alone...a lot. Giving a kid a lot of time to himself to get in trouble.

Bah! Stop being right, Nik.

Ok, so my doubts are obviously pretty flimsy. I still think from a story perspective it would be a little cliche to have Tanya end up being his mom, but there was that part in season 1 were Saul gave some narration about his mom that seemed like it could have been alluding to her having a further part to play in the future, so maybe that is where it's going. Guess we should be finding out soon...

[nikvoodoo]

Bah! Stop being right, Nik.
Never.


Ok, so my doubts are obviously pretty flimsy. I still think from a story perspective it would be a little cliche to have Tanya end up being his mom, but there was that part in season 1 were Saul gave some narration about his mom that seemed like it could have been alluding to her having a further part to play in the future, so maybe that is where it's going. Guess we should be finding out soon...

It may be cliche (and you're not the only one who thinks that), but there's a whole lot of evidence pointing to Tanya and that bit of narration you mentioned (which ended a chapter part too) was pretty tell tale to me that she would come play a role in the series later on down the road.

[WestonWisdom]

Never.



It may be cliche (and you're not the only one who thinks that), but there's a whole lot of evidence pointing to Tanya and that bit of narration you mentioned (which ended a chapter part too) was pretty tell tale to me that she would come play a role in the series later on down the road.

Another, non-storyline related piece of information to consider is that, like mentioned on WND, Radio Dramas tend to rely on character connections in order to drive the story further.

Despite that, Saul being the closest thing to the Tower having a doctor, and Tanya being a doctor hints towards the link even further, even if finding Hope AND Tanya in the same place is a tad far fetched.

[TheNomad]

Yeah like wasn't Dauri in charge? Or it must be report to the higher up.

[j0be]

even if finding Hope AND Tanya in the same place is a tad far fetched.

Not THAT far-fetched to be found in the same place. Think about this. After the initial wave of people were "converted", there is only a fraction of the population remaining. They must group to provide strength in numbers. The Colony is the largest group we know of with hundreds of people. Seeing as this is the largest group, this is actually almost more likely, as long as they were alive.

[Robalypse]

Another, non-storyline related piece of information to consider is that, like mentioned on WND, Radio Dramas tend to rely on character connections in order to drive the story further.

Despite that, Saul being the closest thing to the Tower having a doctor, and Tanya being a doctor hints towards the link even further, even if finding Hope AND Tanya in the same place is a tad far fetched.

Both good points. I had never considered the connection with Saul seeming to know the most about basic medicine.

[HardKor]

2. Saul sounds like he was a bit of a troubled kid. We know that he even got in some trouble with the law and had to jump through some hoops to even get in the army. Not that it's in any way beyond the realm of possibility, but would the child of a doctor, who sounds from her relationship with Hope like she'd be a pretty great mom, be a street wise juvenile delinquent? I doubt it.

I might be wrong on this but we don't know for sure that Tanya was a doctor BEFORE the zombies. She could just as easily been an ER nurse who's used to dealing with wounds and injuries that are now the primary medical concerns. And after the outbreak anyone with medical training became a doctor.

[nikvoodoo]

I might be wrong on this but we don't know for sure that Tanya was a doctor BEFORE the zombies. She could just as easily been an ER nurse who's used to dealing with wounds and injuries that are now the primary medical concerns. And after the outbreak anyone with medical training became a doctor.

You are correct. There was no mention of Saul's mother's profession when he was talking about her way back when. And when you listen to some of Tanya's dialogue it seems to imply that she may not have been a doctor per se before the outbreak. She (I don't think) ever really comes out and says "I was a doctor" but does kind of dance around the topic just a touch.

[Zombiehead]

You are correct. There was no mention of Saul's mother's profession when he was talking about her way back when. And when you listen to some of Tanya's dialogue it seems to imply that she may not have been a doctor per se before the outbreak. She (I don't think) ever really comes out and says "I was a doctor" but does kind of dance around the topic just a touch.
I picked up on that too. I initially suspected she was a nurse or PA that just automatically got the doctor title for her medical skills.

[yarri]

I picked up on that too. I initially suspected she was a nurse or PA that just automatically got the doctor title for her medical skills.


Z you bring up a good point. But she did operate on Michael's arm that takes a surgeon's skills to re break a bone. No RN or PA could pull that off. I could probably set a bone but I sure has heck couldn't re break one.

[Original_Joseph]

Wait - Datu writes about eavesdropping on Burt IN HIS JOURNAL, including cracking open the door to hear better? He's the worst spy ever!